348 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

Reaper Kitten of Doom wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Reaper Kitten of Doom wrote...
Bots please! 

I want to be able to play all of the game without buying xbox gold membership!

How many other games do you own that have MP capability? Do you complain about "not being able to play all of the game" with those too?
 

Asking for a feature is compaining?

I have no idea how many of my games have MP. I never play MP. However, Mass Effect is my favorite game, and I want to have the possibility to play some co-op missions without having to pay monthly fees. 

You are complaning that if bots arent implemented, then you will have to pay more to play "all of the game".
Odds on other games you own have an MP component, and you still have to pay more to "play all of those games" as well.
Its as weak an argument as if I put forward how it there should DLC available on disk from game stores, because I shouldnt have to pay for an ISP if i want to play "all of the game"

Ricinator wrote...
@Bogsnot1
i understand where your position is. and "probably the same maps" is a ridiculous statement when they said the missions would be separate from SP but will aid you in SP war efforts. That being said having Bots is an Alternative to going solo. The missions are not in both.

So far, there is more evidence to back up my stance, than there is to back up yours that it wont be the same maps, orthe same missions.
If you can provide a link to the source of your claim, I will revise my opinion, but so far you have not been able to provide any proof to your claims, whereas I have been able to provide plenty for mine.

[Balek-Vriege]

Ricinator wrote...

@balek-vriege
i understand that point, it's a valid one for sure. But im expecting some really hard missions through MP so having Bots that are one trick ponies may not work. But i think finding people online for the first 6 months wont be a problem. So having Bots with some skills will be useful for the long haul.

Yeah if bots were to be added, they would need to be not useless, but noticeably less powerful compared to players.  On the head-to-desk frustration meter it should be hard to complete missions with them.  But not 6 hours of trying to get everything perfect hard.  However I doubt that's the case since Bioware has said it's possible to solo even though it's etremely hard.

[Genshie]

Ricinator wrote...

@balek-vriege
i understand that point, it's a valid one for sure. But im expecting some really hard missions through MP so having Bots that are one trick ponies may not work. But i think finding people online for the first 6 months wont be a problem. So having Bots with some skills will be useful for the long haul.

I am fine with the bots being only slightly intuned with the difficulty. I am against having bots that allow you to have them do everything for you. (Hence having no control/like most if not all bots in shooters)

[Taritu]

The fanboy is a little thick (deliberately).

Getting the "optimal outcome" will be a lot easier for people who play the co-op missions as well. Bioware has been really clear about that. Yes, you "can" get the optimal outcome playing only SP, but it will be harder.

Many people don't like playing multiplayer, especially not in the last game of a single player trilogy. This is entirely reasonable, and it is reasonable for them to ask for bots so that they can have the same easier path to the "best possible outcome" as the people who play multiplayer.

I'm invested in Shepard's story. I'll buy the game regardless. But combined with the screwups on DA2, it's becoming clearer to me that Bioware isn't interested in making games for people with my preferences anymore. Tying co-op into the main game is, pure and simple, a way to encourage people to play it who don't want to.

I'm glad this is the last ME game.

Modifié par Taritu, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:05 .

[Genshie]

Taritu wrote...


I'm glad this is the last ME game.

Correction, last game with it being purely about Shepard.

[Ricinator]

@bogsnot1
In the SP im sure you can do all three of those missions. but the longer you are there, the reapers rape another planet. But the MP has been so far marketed as separate from SP other than to aid the war effort. So to say you found proof that they are the same missions is ridiculous.

Also alot of people don't pay for xbox live especially with the market as it is. So adding Bots for those vast numbers of people is just another point to my argument. You assume everyone has your perfect situation....what ever that may be

[Reaper Kitten of Doom]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Reaper Kitten of Doom wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Reaper Kitten of Doom wrote...
Bots please! 

I want to be able to play all of the game without buying xbox gold membership!

How many other games do you own that have MP capability? Do you complain about "not being able to play all of the game" with those too?
 

Asking for a feature is compaining?

I have no idea how many of my games have MP. I never play MP. However, Mass Effect is my favorite game, and I want to have the possibility to play some co-op missions without having to pay monthly fees. 

You are complaning that if bots arent implemented, then you will have to pay more to play "all of the game".
Odds on other games you own have an MP component, and you still have to pay more to "play all of those games" as well.
Its as weak an argument as if I put forward how it there should DLC available on disk from game stores, because I shouldnt have to pay for an ISP if i want to play "all of the game"

Ricinator wrote...
@Bogsnot1
i understand where your position is. and "probably the same maps" is a ridiculous statement when they said the missions would be separate from SP but will aid you in SP war efforts. That being said having Bots is an Alternative to going solo. The missions are not in both.

So far, there is more evidence to back up my stance, than there is to back up yours that it wont be the same maps, orthe same missions.
If you can provide a link to the source of your claim, I will revise my opinion, but so far you have not been able to provide any proof to your claims, whereas I have been able to provide plenty for mine.

DLC is not on the product I have already paid for.

[Ricinator]

Genshie wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

@balek-vriege
i understand that point, it's a valid one for sure. But im expecting some really hard missions through MP so having Bots that are one trick ponies may not work. But i think finding people online for the first 6 months wont be a problem. So having Bots with some skills will be useful for the long haul.

I am fine with the bots being only slightly intuned with the difficulty. I am against having bots that allow you to have them do everything for you. (Hence having no control/like most if not all bots in shooters)

well sure, i dont want bots carrying me through. thats embarasing lol.

[Ricinator]

My main thing is i dont want to be stuck 2 years down the road with nobody online and trying to beat MP SOLO Insanity with 25 guys shooting only at 1 person me. So bots seemed logical to help that with both longevity for all of the people on the forums and those of us without Xbox live or what ever the situation is. Bots wether you use them or not, will benifit the vast majority..

[Balek-Vriege]

Taritu wrote...

The fanboy is a little thick (deliberately).

Getting the "optimal outcome" will be a lot easier for people who play the co-op missions as well. Bioware has been really clear about that. Yes, you "can" get the optimal outcome playing only SP, but it will be harder.

Many people don't like playing multiplayer, especially not in the last game of a single player trilogy. This is entirely reasonable, and it is reasonable for them to ask for bots so that they can have the same easier path to the "best possible outcome" as the people who play multiplayer.

I'm invested in Shepard's story. I'll buy the game regardless. But combined with the screwups on DA2, it's becoming clearer to me that Bioware isn't interested in making games for people with my preferences anymore. Tying co-op into the main game is, pure and simple, a way to encourage people to play it who don't want to.

I'm glad this is the last ME game.

The how easy depends on playstyle.  If you we're going to play ME3 trying to get everything and the most optimal outcomes, very little will change for you gameplay wise.  Even with the added Galactic Readiness, you will still make 99% of your choices exactly the same.

For example: If you're a completionist, ME2 had coop and it rewarded you with resources, would it really change your SP experience?  Sure you would have to scan a few less planets etc. than an SP only player would have to, but by the end of the game both players would still have enough resources to buy all the upgrades.

By your same reasoning imported chars shouldn't get special bonuses in ME2/ME3 because it's unfair to new players and encourages them to buy/play ME1/ME2.  Or preorder weapons and items allowing some players to do harder missions earlier and get a better and faster playthrough.

[diamondedge]

In SINGLE PLAYER GAME?
It's question what kind of game ME3 is?
Who's the target customers?

Get your facts straight - MP is SEPARATED from SP campaign. It's not PvP it's CO-OP. Bots in co-op is the near equivalent of your squad. Target audience has nothing to do with it, neither does the genre of the game.

Your argument is invalid.

[Ricinator]

@balek-vriege
what he was saying is that for those of us who didn't want MP in the first place can substitute Bots in and play MP as an extension of SP, and for those people who don't have xbox live, ect.

[N172]

dreman9999 wrote...

Playing a mp solo changes what the mode is. Mp by diffinition is not a sp game. I understand you want the play the mp but the very consept of playing alone in a mp defies it's meaning. A pve mode that has one verses everything is a survival mode.

That may be correct for pvp-shooters, but there are many examples of MP-Coop-Modes you can play alone in RPGs, so MP-Coop-Modes are usually modes that can be played with other players but you can play them alone or even with NPCs.

[Bogsnot1]

@Ricinator: Your source for your claims is what? Who? Provide a link, otherwise its nothing more than your own guesswork.

@Reaper Kitten: You have already paid for MP in other games, so why have you not already gotten gold so you can experience what you have already paid for?

@Taritu: The reason why co-op will be "easier", is because you will have up to 3 real, live, thinking humans helping you out, instead of bug-prone AI who dont always do what they are supposed to.
Who would you rather have at your back? A Blue Suns merc, or a LOKI mech?

[Ricinator]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

@Ricinator: Your source for your claims is what? Who? Provide a link, otherwise its nothing more than your own guesswork.

@Reaper Kitten: You have already paid for MP in other games, so why have you not already gotten gold so you can experience what you have already paid for?

@Taritu: The reason why co-op will be "easier", is because you will have up to 3 real, live, thinking humans helping you out, instead of bug-prone AI who dont always do what they are supposed to.
Who would you rather have at your back? A Blue Suns merc, or a LOKI mech?

blue suns/loki mech comment i dont understand... but i'll go digging

[N172]

@Bogsnot1: The LOKI mech, since Blue Suns are treacherous.

The real question is LOKI mech or no one, those NPCs should replace empty slots when no one is able (due to "delay"/"high latency"/"lag") and willing to play with you.

[Ricinator]

@bogsnot1
Casey says, "your fighting as part of the war effort."
So from said statement, i wasn't wrong about having the missions be separate but you weren't right either so all we can do is speculate whether they are separate missions or same missions with MP.

would be nice to get Dev input on that.

Modifié par Ricinator, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:00 .

[Bogsnot1]

@ricinator: The Blue suns/loki comment was directed at Taritu, to highlight the difference between how effective AI and a thinknig person can be in order to make things easier.

Dont forget that Shep is also fighting as "part of the war effort". And yes, what I am saying is pure speculation, and I have admitted to that in previous posts. However, it is speculation based upon observation, and logical deduction based upon those observations.

I am inclined to say that Montreal studio's involvement was more to do with the mechanics (client/server interaction, scripting) than it was to do with level design. This is another logical assumption on my part, as you already have one team doing level design (Edmonton studio), so it makes more sense to get Montreal to focus on co-op gamelpay mechanics in order to perfect them in tmie for game delivery.

@N172: OK, a Blue Suns who only gets paid when the job is complete, and will have a contract taken out on his life should he return without you. 

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Ricinator]

i don't really see any valid argument against Bots.

@bogsnot1
if the MP maps are the same as in SP, bots would be pointless. But they will not be the same maps because the impending shet storm the forums would experience would destroy us all.

Modifié par Ricinator, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:32 .

[N172]

@Bogsnot1: What about the invaluable prothean artifact i am carrying around? Ok, enough jokes i whould chose an alliance soldier who is loyal to me over a LOKI mech.

The best choice imo whould be to simply scale the difficulty depending on the amount of players, 4-player insanity-enemies whould be stronger than 3-player insanity-enemies, 3>2 and 2>1.

Something like that is necessary anyway, because you may lose allies due to connection problems and if difficulty does not scale you have either very easy 4-player-sessions or impossible missions after disconnects (private customers cannot really prevent such issues).

[Ricinator]

@n172
with bots if designed correctly could take control of the Dcd teammate character. So even losing a IRL person a bot could take over and you could continue onto victory instead of being short a player.

[Shia Luck]

N172 wrote...
The best choice imo whould be to simply scale the difficulty depending on the amount of players, 4-player insanity-enemies whould be stronger than 3-player insanity-enemies, 3>2 and 2>1.

No. because it takes away from those players who want to experience something more difficult by playing with less people (3 is the traditional number in ME, no? And what about those who want to solo for the satisfaction (not acheivement) of doing so? And 2 is the buddy number, no?

No matter what you say or want you will not turn MP into SP! Give it up already!


I am not against bots if and only if it is ridiculously easy to add them at this late stage, in fact I'd love for bots to be available. But I would be amazed if it were so easy to add them.

@ bogsnot1  thanks for the link.... will check it tomo.... think I am going to play some NWN MP.. ( a bioware designed game that STILL has MP players almost 10 years later... *grin* )

.................................................................................

Ok so let's have a thought experiment.... Let's assume MP has completely new content, maps etc....  Do you want polishing time diverted from your SP game to add bots to MP even tho they won't be controllable, will be weak, and it will not feel like the SP game at all? Or would you rather the Devs used the time as they had planned instead of adding something new at this late stage?

[Ricinator]

@shia luck
what about for dlc

[Elvis_Mazur]

How is bots any different than our normal squadmates' AI?

I vote for bots.