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Fanged and Shambling Skeletons...

Débuté par Guest_greengoron89_* , oct. 22 2011 04:59

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#1
Guest_greengoron89_*
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 04:59

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I just went through Nature of the Beast once again on my NM solo run, and noticed something I hadn't before: the Fanged and Shambling Skeletons you battle throughout the forest ruins are a lot more peculiar than I'd previously thought.

I'm pretty sure they're the skeletons of long-dead darkspawn - I went into stealth and examined them up close, and their facial and dental structure is pretty much identical to Hurlocks. Their armor is also very similar to what darkspawn wear - particularly the pauldrons and the Shambling Skeleton's helmet (looks like a variation of the Hurlock Alpha helmet).

Furthermore, the ruins are riddled with darkspawn weaponry and armor. It seems like the place has been overrun by darkspawn at some point in the past - it's said by the Grand Oak and the Arcane Warrior that humans and elves both were battling and were ultimately killed by some unknown assailant. Darkspawn would seem to be the most likely candidate.

But I'm not entirely sure how old these ruins are - does anyone here know? They'd need to have stretched back to the days of the Tevinter Empire, at least. Is it possible the ruins were raided during the First Blight?

It's too bad the game doesn't go into more detail regarding the ruins' history - or the history of the ancient elves and Tevinters. This sort of stuff fascinates me to no end.

Modifié par greengoron89, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:00 .

#2
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 06:57

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Well, I know this much - the ruins are Tevinter ruins (edit: of a sort). Morrigan comments on the statues and the architecture.

Now initially it makes no sense that elves would have been the equal of the Tevinter citizens as elves were enslaved by the Tevinters. But these ruins could, perhaps, be older or have a different story. I know Cadash Thaig turned out to be an "Elven Thaig" of sorts where elves and dwarves lived together for a time. So who knows.

In any case, obviously a great battle was fought there. I think you are probably correct - first Blight - before elves were enslaved by humans.

Modifié par Hanz54321, 22 octobre 2011 - 06:58 .

#3
Shadow of Light Dragon
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 11:33

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Not necessarily the Blight that killed them.

The skeletons and such look weird because they're possessed by demons. Arcane Horrors and Revenants are also possessed undead, and they don't look very human anymore either. The presence of darkspawn weaponry, even corpses, doesn't mean they were responsible for the fall of that place, only that they have been there since (there have been a number of Blights in the last nine hundred years).

It'd be cool if we got more info, but maybe one day.

#4
Corker
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 02:47

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Hanz54321 wrote...

In any case, obviously a great battle was fought there. I think you are probably correct - first Blight - before elves were enslaved by humans.


IIRC, Arlathan fell 2000 years ago, while the first Blight was about 1000 years ago.

My bet is that they were pre-Tevinter humans, who eventually became the Tevinters (with similar art and architecture).  Possibly a slave workforce?  It would be very Bioware to make the elves' history a bit dirtier than first presented.

#5
tklivory
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 05:08

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Come to that: does anyone know of a good reference for the chronology of Dragon Age history? (when the blights started, when Arlathan/Dales fell, &c &c)

I always figured the ruins were a left over ruin from the high age of the elves that had been used for Uthenera and was corrupted over time as others moved in. Since you can't see ears on skeletons, who's to say the skeletons weren't elvish?

Modifié par tklivory, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:18 .

#6
Guest_greengoron89_*
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 08:03

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I suppose that's possible, Shadow - but not all of the skeletons you encounter are like that. Some of the skeletons must be elvish (and perhaps human as well) - the other skeletons outside of the Fanged and Shambling variety are normal-looking humanoid skeletons. You can compare the following screenshots if you'd like:

Devouring Skeleton
Posted Image

Fanged Skeleton
Posted Image

That last one certainly doesn't belong to an elf or a human - it's more consistent with darkspawn bone structure. Also, the pauldron on its left shoulder is distinctly darkspawn in design - and the wrapping around its head is similar to what Hurlock Emissaries wear.

If the elves and humans both were living in these ruins at the same point in time, it'd make sense that the era these ruins fell would be around the time of the First Blight - elves and humans did not "coexist" at all until Arlathan was conquered and the elves were enslaved, so it would've at least have to have been after that happened.

I also noticed a dwarf corpse in the dragon's lair - seems awfully far out of the way for a dwarf to be, don't you think? I wonder if an entrance to the Deep Roads is nearby - it might explain the darkspawn encounters in the forest, as well. I know there was an entrance to the Deep Roads in the ruin during the Dalish Elf origin.

These games are just full of mysteries.

Modifié par greengoron89, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:04 .

#7
gandanlin
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 08:58

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I'm not at home right now so I can't check the codex, but I seem to recall there were some historical details about the ruins listed under the entry for the bow that is found on the first level: Falon'Din's Reach, or whatever it is called.

In any case, interesting thread. Got me thinking about those ruins now.

#8
tklivory
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 09:18

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tklivory wrote...

Come to that: does anyone know of a good reference for the chronology of Dragon Age history? (when the blights started, when Arlathan/Dales fell, &c &c)


In case anyone was interested, I found a partial answer to my own question:

Chronology of Thedas

BioWare Tome of Knowledge

Will definitely be referring to these, I must say...

Modifié par tklivory, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:19 .

#9
Herr Uhl
Posté 22 octobre 2011 - 10:48

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tklivory wrote...

tklivory wrote...

Come to that: does anyone know of a good reference for the chronology of Dragon Age history? (when the blights started, when Arlathan/Dales fell, &c &c)


In case anyone was interested, I found a partial answer to my own question:

Chronology of Thedas

BioWare Tome of Knowledge

Will definitely be referring to these, I must say...


The wiki works well for this.

#10
Shadow of Light Dragon
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 12:56

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greengoron89 wrote...

That last one certainly doesn't belong to an elf or a human - it's more consistent with darkspawn bone structure. Also, the pauldron on its left shoulder is distinctly darkspawn in design - and the wrapping around its head is similar to what Hurlock Emissaries wear.


Even if it is a darkspawn skeleton (it can happen...a demon possesses an ogre corpse in Awakening), that doesn't mean it was around at the time of the ruin's fall thousands of years ago. It could have died there much more recently.

If the elves and humans both were living in these ruins at the same point in time, it'd make sense that the era these ruins fell would be around the time of the First Blight - elves and humans did not "coexist" at all until Arlathan was conquered and the elves were enslaved, so it would've at least have to have been after that happened.


We know Arlathan fell before the First Blight. We don't know that elves and humans never co-existed before then, at least in southern Thedas. There are many human peoples across the world of which Tevinter was but one example, and I wouldn't be surprised if Arlathan was not the only elven kingdom. Who says the elves were one big happy family?

I also noticed a dwarf corpse in the dragon's lair - seems awfully far out of the way for a dwarf to be, don't you think? I wonder if an entrance to the Deep Roads is nearby - it might explain the darkspawn encounters in the forest, as well. I know there was an entrance to the Deep Roads in the ruin during the Dalish Elf origin.


Well, we learn in Witch Hunt that some elves lived in Cadash Thaig with the dwarves. ;) Sometimes there are mysteries, sometimes a guy just happened to be killed in an unusual place for reasons that were unremarkable.

These games are just full of mysteries.


And full of designers who just drop stuff as decorations without thinking about it too much. ;)

#11
Corker
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 01:11

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greengoron89 wrote...

I also noticed a dwarf corpse in the dragon's lair - seems awfully far out of the way for a dwarf to be, don't you think? I wonder if an entrance to the Deep Roads is nearby - it might explain the darkspawn encounters in the forest, as well. I know there was an entrance to the Deep Roads in the ruin during the Dalish Elf origin.


There is, I think.  Gwaren, the place Loghain is the teyrn of, is just... south of the Brecilian, if I remember correctly.  It was a major trading hub between the dwarves and humans, with a dwarven city below the human one.

(Codex entry)

#12
Zaxares
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 01:24

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If you've played Awakening, there's also a really creepy two-headed skeleton found in a secret room in the Silverite Mines. You never see a similar skeleton anywhere else in the two games, and it's never explained just what this skeleton is or what it's doing there. O.o

#13
Guest_greengoron89_*
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 02:52

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Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

That last one certainly doesn't belong to an elf or a human - it's more consistent with darkspawn bone structure. Also, the pauldron on its left shoulder is distinctly darkspawn in design - and the wrapping around its head is similar to what Hurlock Emissaries wear.


Even if it is a darkspawn skeleton (it can happen...a demon possesses an ogre corpse in Awakening), that doesn't mean it was around at the time of the ruin's fall thousands of years ago. It could have died there much more recently.

If the elves and humans both were living in these ruins at the same point in time, it'd make sense that the era these ruins fell would be around the time of the First Blight - elves and humans did not "coexist" at all until Arlathan was conquered and the elves were enslaved, so it would've at least have to have been after that happened.


We know Arlathan fell before the First Blight. We don't know that elves and humans never co-existed before then, at least in southern Thedas. There are many human peoples across the world of which Tevinter was but one example, and I wouldn't be surprised if Arlathan was not the only elven kingdom. Who says the elves were one big happy family?

I also noticed a dwarf corpse in the dragon's lair - seems awfully far out of the way for a dwarf to be, don't you think? I wonder if an entrance to the Deep Roads is nearby - it might explain the darkspawn encounters in the forest, as well. I know there was an entrance to the Deep Roads in the ruin during the Dalish Elf origin.


Well, we learn in Witch Hunt that some elves lived in Cadash Thaig with the dwarves. ;) Sometimes there are mysteries, sometimes a guy just happened to be killed in an unusual place for reasons that were unremarkable.

These games are just full of mysteries.


And full of designers who just drop stuff as decorations without thinking about it too much. ;)


It's true that little is known about Arlathan in general (I strongly suspect it's actually the "Golden/Black City", but I digress), and it's perfectly possible that those corpses belong to darkspawn that are unrelated to the battle in the ruins.

However, the force responsible for the deaths of the elves and humans in the ruin is still unaccounted for - and darkspawn seem to be the most likely culprit, IMHO. Only darkspawn would openly attack both elves and humans alike, and in such great numbers as to overwhelm as large a construct as the Brecilian Ruins are.

Of course, I could be reading more into these things than is necessary as you suggested. It wouldn't be the first time - but it makes for some great food for thought nonetheless. :P

#14
tklivory
Posté 23 octobre 2011 - 08:04

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greengoron89 wrote...

It's true that little is known about Arlathan in general (I strongly suspect it's actually the "Golden/Black City", but I digress), and it's perfectly possible that those corpses belong to darkspawn that are unrelated to the battle in the ruins.

However, the force responsible for the deaths of the elves and humans in the ruin is still unaccounted for - and darkspawn seem to be the most likely culprit, IMHO. Only darkspawn would openly attack both elves and humans alike, and in such great numbers as to overwhelm as large a construct as the Brecilian Ruins are.

Of course, I could be reading more into these things than is necessary as you suggested. It wouldn't be the first time - but it makes for some great food for thought nonetheless. :P


:o  Yay, I'm not the only one to have ever thought that! (see bolded text).  And I thought I was just nuts.

Oh, wait, I am nuts.  *shrugs*  Oh, well.  :P


As for the darkspawn skeletons in the ruins:

The first Blight basically ravaged the face of Thedas, correct?  I could see the Brecilian Ruins being a shelter for humans/elves even after the fall of Arlathan, since it was still (sorta) standing even in the Age of the Dragon hundreds of years later.  Thus (such as was the case in Jericho), the buildings that would become the Brecilian Ruins could have been ruins already (or mostly abandoned except for those desperate for shelter) when the first Blight sent darkspawn into the land.  It could even have been used as a staging area by the forces of Tevinter against the onslaught of the darkspawn.
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