201 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

Seriously,. what the hell is with Kasumi: Stolen Mark of the Assaasin......starring Tallis.

New DLC is okay, Legacy is better and more essential. Felicia Day did a great job as Tallis. But here is the drawback of the new DLC...

It completely RIPS off ME2's DLC when it comes to story.

Lets see, player is given a mission by a lovable and funny female rogue named Kasumi, oops I mean Tallis, to help participate in a hiest to steal a graybox, uhm I mean jewel, from an evil arms dealer, I mean lord, during a dinner party on Bekenstein , oops Orlais. In the middle of the hiest they are ambushed by Hock, I mean Prosper, who noticed the that Kasumi, I mean Tallis, seemed suspicious and in fact expected them. Shepard and Kasumi, I mean Hawke and Tallis, escape and then kill Hock on his aircraft, I mean Prosper on his Wyvern, in order to secure an object that is more than it seems.

Complete and utter recycling project. Like what SquareEnix does with the Final Fantasy series (hell FFVII and for much of it FFIX, are strongly recycled from FFVI) or what Blizzard does with their plots (Warcraft III is Starcraft in Azeroth).

Can't get around this, the fact that it recycles an older plotline devalues this DLC. The main DAII game was a huge step for Bioware in NOT recycling its plots and characters, why fall back and regress for its DLC?

The main criticism of DAO story is that it was recycled from past Bioware plots, that cannot be denied. Its sequel was vastly different, which was a step forward. But now its back to recycling plots. ME3 seems like a recycled DAO (to be fair, I can't see it not doing so as the story seems set up for this in ME2) and this DLC.

I am tried of the same Bioware character recycles as well: you got your typical male goody goody lead, then you have you spirtual highly good aligned female, you got your cold harded b*tch, then you got the comedic psychopath, you got the silent warrior that slow to trust you, you got the highly intellegent by socially naive character, and you have the Western genki girl. Can we move away from these archtypes? DAII was a start as it used less of these archtypes (as did Awakenings). ME2 and DAII also returned characters that no longer fit the above archtypes as much as well, Liara and Anders for instance.

Except for returning characters DAIII should have NONE of these above archtypes. DAIII should also have a completely different style of story from both DAO and DAII. It would be a good thing to have DAIII have a story of more scope than DAO while having an even more personal take than DAII, while having a different feel.

Stop recycling...

Modifié par txgoldrush, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:51 .

[Zanallen]

Um, to be honest, all heist stories are going to be largely the same. There is nothing new in this world and all characters can be broken down into various archetypes.

[DeathDragon185]

face it people hate change. Bioware is going back to the safe route to making games.
oh Bioware why have you fallen to public pressure...

[AlexXIV]

Well Kasumi DLC was very successful, so what do you expect? What bothers me more is introducing new characters or stuff that alters the main story. Like they did in LotSB, Kasumi, Zaheed, Witch Hunt, etc.

So who really cares if they copied it, it's not like original stories are better by default.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:46 .

[MG800]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well Kasumi DLC was very successful, so what do you expect? What bothers me more is introducing new characters or stuff that alters the main story. Like they did in LotSB, Kasumi, Zaheed, Witch Hunt, etc.

So who really cares if they copied it, it's not like original stories are better by default.

^ Not to mention, that not every DA fan played Mass Effect, or brought Kasumi DLC.

[Nerdage]

Without going into spoilers, I guess you missed the part where you find out what "heart of the many" means, huh?

The only meaningful similarity is infiltrating at the party, and really is that such a big deal?

[DKJaigen]

I played both DLC and their is no recycling present

[Sutekh]

As someone who's never played ME2, let alone its DLCs, I absolutely don't care whether the plot is recycled or not. And even if I had, I still woudn't care.

It was a good plot, classic but interesting to play. That's all I ask. Originality doesn't mean quality. Quality (or lack thereof) often comes from the way the story is told, not the story itself.

As for archetype characters, they're called "archetypes" for a reason. Meaning they have patterns we can easily recognize and root for or against. It's a good thing for a quick medium, like a video game, where you don't have thirty chapters of literature to dive into character development.

Also, SPOILERS, dammit! <_<

[whykikyouwhy]

Sutekh wrote...

As for archetype characters, they're called "archetypes" for a reason. Meaning they have patterns we can easily recognize and root for or against. It's a good thing for a quick medium, like a video game, where you don't have thirty chapters of literature to dive into character development.

^ This, very much so.

Stories build upon common themes, and common characterizations. It builds familiarity and helps us associate with the characters and settings because they become something we can understand, recognize and relate to. You can still have originality and flair within that though, and I think Bioware has done much to keep their stories engaging.

But yeah, (mythological ) archetypes. Wonderful things.

[Gervaise]

Don't be too hard on Bioware. People who analyse these things claim that there are only something like 10 basic plot types that all stories follow - the variations occur in the characters who populate the story and the setting. People take stories that were originally Shakespear plays and recycle them in different settings, likewise Jane Austen novels. The Seven Samuri has been recycled as the Magnificent Seven with cowboys, in a fantasy setting and in outer space. In Star Wars 1, the little boy Skywalker (can't spell the name) takes part in a race that pans out exactly like the chariot race in Ben Hur. Bioware gave plenty of warning in the trailer what the DLC was about so if you thought it looked too like a previous one, just don't buy it.

[bleetman]

txgoldrush wrote...

It completely RIPS off ME2's DLC when it comes to story.

Aside from infiltrating an esate under the cover of a social event - and nobody else in the entire history of fiction has ever done that, right? - no, no it isn't. It's actually quite different in terms of what's going on, who's involved in what's going on, and how the whole thing plays out. Tallis and Kasumi are only alike in that they're sneaky, nimble rogue types, so you might as well accuse her of being a rehash of Isabela, too.

Honestly, I have to wonder if you actually played MotA, or just watched a few videos on youtube.

[Yuqi]

Nothing is new, just recycled~ C.S lewis

[Cutlass Jack]

Please stop recycling complaints. I think you can come up with something no one has said before. If you actually played both you'd know they weren't really that similar. Other than both being heists. Its like saying Bioware recycles because it does multiple games where you kill stuff and have romances.

[Cutlass Jack]

Mei Mei wrote...

But... but... its Felicia Day.

She was recycled too! You'd know this if you could remove Kasumi's hood!

[jamesp81]

Oh for God's sakes, here we go again.

There is nothing new under the sun in literature. Heist stories have been around for ages, and they all tend to have similar plotlines. I could just as easily say MotA ripped off James Bond.

What defines good writing isn't originality, for there is NOTHING that is original anymore. Every story has been told many times over. What defines good writing is establishing a good setting, good characters, and a good plot arc. MotA did that.

[PantheraOnca]

Dear OP,

www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html

Sincerely,
Me

[Carmen_Willow]

Gervaise wrote...

Don't be too hard on Bioware. People who analyse these things claim that there are only something like 10 basic plot types that all stories follow - the variations occur in the characters who populate the story and the setting. People take stories that were originally Shakespear plays and recycle them in different settings, likewise Jane Austen novels. The Seven Samuri has been recycled as the Magnificent Seven with cowboys, in a fantasy setting and in outer space. In Star Wars 1, the little boy Skywalker (can't spell the name) takes part in a race that pans out exactly like the chariot race in Ben Hur. Bioware gave plenty of warning in the trailer what the DLC was about so if you thought it looked too like a previous one, just don't buy it.

It's always been my contention that romance novels are just fairy tales in disguise.  Most popular?  Beauty and the Beast (beautiful pure girl tames wild unruly "beast" of a guy)
Then Cinderella (poor girl makes good weds nobleman).  The Little Mermaid (good girl gives up everything for the guy she loves-sometimes it works out and sometimes, it doesn't {Madame Butterfly}.  Then there is King Thrushbeard (haughty girl gets her comeuppance at the hands of a wily  guy {Taming of the Shew}).  I'm sure you can think of others. Every tale has probably been told already.  It's in the telling that we find the pleasure.

[Bigdoser]

I should try and find that bioware story chart it was very interesting to look at actually seeing how many times bioware has used themes from their previous game. For example almost all the main characters in bioware games are "special" people.

[AlexXIV]

Bigdoser wrote...

I should try and find that bioware story chart it was very interesting to look at actually seeing how many times bioware has used themes from their previous game. For example almost all the main characters in bioware games are "special" people.

Special? If you mean because they have a special role in the game, then ofc. I mean what is a main character supposed to do? Laundry? If you mean special by nature, no they ain't. Warden is not special until becomming Warden, Shepard is not special, Hawke isn't special. Only in BG, KotOR and Jade Empire they are special by nature.

[Sutekh]

Bigdoser wrote...

I should try and find that bioware story chart it was very interesting to look at actually seeing how many times bioware has used themes from their previous game. For example almost all the main characters in bioware games are "special" people.

As opposed to the vast majority of heroes in stories-with-heroes-in-them that have been written and told since the beginning of stories-with-heroes-in-them?

Seriously, from the Illiad to Harry Potter, via Hamlet or Elric of Melniboné all the same old, same old special people. All with an extra something compared to ordinary people from their own settings. Bioware writers are doing nothing else than what Homer was doing by making all his heroes demi-gods and such, i.e. greater than life, from the beginning. 

AlexXIV wrote...
Warden is not special until becomming Warden, Shepard is not special, Hawke isn't special.

Actually, all Wardens have a little extra, pre-Wardening:

- Aeducan is prince, and given a commandment that should've gone to his elder brother
- The castless (can't remember their name) is a better fighter than trained nobles
- Surana and Amell are the best apprentice in the tower
- Tabris is the only elf in the Alienage to have some combat skill, learned from their badass mother
- Cousland is considered the next Teyrn, again before their brother
- Mahariel is the best hunter of their clan

There's a reason why Duncan comes for most of them specifically. 

They follow the recipe mentioned above, and, IMO, that's a good thing for an epic.

Modifié par Sutekh, 22 octobre 2011 - 07:35 .

[Gunderic]

Yuqi wrote...

Nothing is new, just recycled~ C.S lewis

Recycled would imply, naturally, that it's broken down into parts which are used to create a new item.

Not the case with MotA. It's just re-used.

[Gunderic]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

As for archetype characters, they're called "archetypes" for a reason. Meaning they have patterns we can easily recognize and root for or against. It's a good thing for a quick medium, like a video game, where you don't have thirty chapters of literature to dive into character development.

^ This, very much so.

Stories build upon common themes, and common characterizations. It builds familiarity and helps us associate with the characters and settings because they become something we can understand, recognize and relate to. You can still have originality and flair within that though, and I think Bioware has done much to keep their stories engaging.

But yeah, (mythological ) archetypes. Wonderful things.

I've got this amazing challenge: What -IF- BioWare would start 'recycling' plots and characters... from other works of fiction, instead of re-selling their own? I'm pretty sure I can relate to a lot of stuff that's not from another BioWare DLC.