135 réponses à ce sujet

[FrobergDK]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I would also like it if some sort of reprieve was to be had by actually finishing the legacy DLC - since it seems that magister has been influencing Kirkwall directly for ages.

he couldn't have been influencing Kirkwall. By Legacy's own lore he can only influence people who have the taint in their bodies. Having him also being able to influence Kirkwall would not only be breaking lore but also be incredibly stupid because then Bioware relied on a big, bad magical evil thing to explain something that would've been more interesting had it been caused by human nature.

That codex is one Warden's speculation, and should not be taken as fact.

I do believe it's a valid point though - cornifurus (sp?) seems extremely powerful, and I wouldn't be surprised if he helped to weaken the resolve of some mages - besides, the veil is very thin in Kirkwall - if my codex memory serves me correctly.

edited to add:

jlb524 wrote...

FrobergDK wrote...

Reg. Isabella
- well, her having secrets is just expected - and she always comes back
in my playthroughs.. possibly because I invariably end up in the sack
with her.

So, b/c it's 'expected' she gets off the hook for you?

It's
not if she comes back or not, but the fact that the situation got to
the point of open war with the qunari because she kept information to
herself for three years about why the heck they were there.

No, she gets off the hook because she does not seem bat-**** crazy and/or utterly beyond redemption. I guess it boils down to whether or not you believe she is earnest when she says she simply did not want to drag Hawke in to a mess of her own making.

IF I could actually initiate dialogue I would've hoped there'd be an option to point out how she always conveniently vanishes whenever I go speak with the Qunari, sadly there is not.

I don't know what it says about me that I like the two most rogueish characters in the game the most, namely Varric and Isa. You just know that Varric is some sort of underground master criminal and Isabella, well, quite the thief - wouldn't you agree?
But at least they don't berate me and act all judgmental all the time. If I decide to spare a mage Fenris will be on my case, if I do something a bit sketchy I'll get a lecture from Sebastian or Aveline, God forbid I put down a mage who may or may not be a maleficar in front of Anders and Merril.

From reading all your responses I think I may have found my true gripe with the game as a whole: Mages & Templars.
I did not care for the subject in DA and DA:O - nor do I in DA2.

Life was so much simpler when I could just slay some damn darkspawn and explore varied dungeons.

Also - what happened to sidequests?

Modifié par FrobergDK, 22 octobre 2011 - 04:58 .

[TEWR]

jlb524 wrote...

Vit246 wrote...
She feared Merrill would release the demon, so she decides to release the demon herself and hope Merrill and the others would kill it? It would've more sense to kill Merrill instead. Merrill is not to blame for the Keeper's idiocy.

It actually would have made more sense for Marethari to tell Merrill the demons plans with the eluvian as soon as she found out.   But she waits until after she's possessed to do so?  wtf

The fact that Audacity hadn't been returning Merrill's phone calls and Marethari can be possessed when you don't ask for her help leads me to believe that prior to beginning that quest Marethari was possessed for a while, thus endangering the clan.

[TEWR]

FrobergDK wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I would also like it if some sort of reprieve was to be had by actually finishing the legacy DLC - since it seems that magister has been influencing Kirkwall directly for ages.

he couldn't have been influencing Kirkwall. By Legacy's own lore he can only influence people who have the taint in their bodies. Having him also being able to influence Kirkwall would not only be breaking lore but also be incredibly stupid because then Bioware relied on a big, bad magical evil thing to explain something that would've been more interesting had it been caused by human nature.

That codex is one Warden's speculation, and should not be taken as fact.

I do believe it's a valid point though - cornifurus (sp?) seems extremely powerful, and I wouldn't be surprised if he helped to weaken the resolve of some mages - besides, the veil is very thin in Kirkwall - if my codex memory serves me correctly.

Corypheus.

And I don't. However powerful he may be, he's a Darkspawn that can only communicate with those who bear the taint. The thin Veil wouldn't help him get around this.

[jlb524]

FrobergDK wrote...

I just feel that in DA and DA:O - I had much more freedom when it came to actions, dialogue options and the resulting results from said actions and choices.

So, let me get this straight...you don't like that some companions have motivations and strong convictions of their own and that you (the PC) can't choose to kill them, beat them, set them of fire, etc. if you don't agree with them?

[RagingCyclone]

Xilizhra wrote...

Where many see her being selfless and doing her duty I think are missing on some key points that she mentions about her true motivations. These become more apparent in her rivalry path.

Oh, the one where Hawke is emotionally abusing her? You believe that'll get a more accurate picture?

If you think Hawke telling her to grow up and listen to others that are not obsessed with the mirror is emotionally abusive...that is your subjective viewpoint.  When you step outside the box and take an objective view she mentions several times that she misses Tamlen and wants to find out what happened to him after his contact with the mirror. She even at one point wonders if he is still alive. Those are her true motivations.

[FrobergDK]

jlb524 wrote...

FrobergDK wrote...

I just feel that in DA and DA:O - I had much more freedom when it came to actions, dialogue options and the resulting results from said actions and choices.

So, let me get this straight...you don't like that some companions have motivations and strong convictions of their own and that you (the PC) can't choose to kill them, beat them, set them of fire, etc. if you don't agree with them?

Or toss them out of the party entirely, yes.

I also updated my previous post a bit by the way - commenting on something else you said.

Modifié par FrobergDK, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:02 .

[Xilizhra]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Where many see her being selfless and doing her duty I think are missing on some key points that she mentions about her true motivations. These become more apparent in her rivalry path.

Oh, the one where Hawke is emotionally abusing her? You believe that'll get a more accurate picture?

If you think Hawke telling her to grow up and listen to others that are not obsessed with the mirror is emotionally abusive...that is your subjective viewpoint.  When you step outside the box and take an objective view she mentions several times that she misses Tamlen and wants to find out what happened to him after his contact with the mirror. She even at one point wonders if he is still alive. Those are her true motivations.

Those are her motivations in part. Not the whole of them. They're just side branches that she personally wants, but they aren't her deepest need. If they were, she'd have been tempted by Caress into finding Tamlen and not by Wryme into saving the Dalish.
And yes, I do feel that way, especially if Hawke is also "romancing" her.

[AlexXIV]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Where many see her being selfless and doing her duty I think are missing on some key points that she mentions about her true motivations. These become more apparent in her rivalry path.

Oh, the one where Hawke is emotionally abusing her? You believe that'll get a more accurate picture?

If you think Hawke telling her to grow up and listen to others that are not obsessed with the mirror is emotionally abusive...that is your subjective viewpoint.  When you step outside the box and take an objective view she mentions several times that she misses Tamlen and wants to find out what happened to him after his contact with the mirror. She even at one point wonders if he is still alive. Those are her true motivations.

She is not really selfish, but extremely dedicated. To a point you could say she is arrogant or even fanatic. She thinks everyone is wrong and she alone is right. That should at some point backfire at her, but it doesn't because Merethari is quicker and not only takes the hit, she takes the blame for it as well. So Merrill remains 'innocent'.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:04 .

[FrobergDK]

The fact that Hawke can even romance her seems iffy.. she comes across as very.. young.. to me.

[Xilizhra]

FrobergDK wrote...

The fact that Hawke can even romance her seems iffy.. she comes across as very.. young.. to me.

She seems around, at the very least, seventeenish in Act 1, and Hawke can't romance her until three years later.

[jlb524]

FrobergDK wrote...

From reading all your responses I think I may have found my true gripe with the game as a whole: Mages & Templars.
I did not care for the subject in DA and DA:O - nor do I in DA2.

Yes, you don't care about that particular struggle so you cannot connect with Anders.

Similarly, you probably don't give a flip about the issues surrounding elves, either.  Thus, when you look at Merrill, you only see an idiotic blood mage and you miss completely the reasons for why she's doing what she is doing.

You can relate to Isabela more b/c you understand her reasons for doing what she did and you care about it/have an emotional investment.

FrobergDK wrote...

The fact that Hawke can even romance her seems iffy.. she comes across as very.. young.. to me.

Merrill was 25 in Origins, according to the toolset (not sure how accurate that is, though).  It was confirmed by a dev that she is about as old as the Warden and Tamlen at the start of Origins.

Modifié par jlb524, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:10 .

[AlexXIV]

Well that's speculation, she could be a 25 year old, just socially unexperienced. After all she gets avoided by most of her clan, if not all. And doesn't have much contact to outsiders either. And elves always seem younger. Merethari is probably also older than she looks.

[Melca36]

Judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.
YES!!  That’s always a good idea. <_<





This type of thinking is truly dangerous, to say the least. I know
Dragon Age is just a game, but think about it.

I suggest you click on Alaine next time you're in the Gallows and listen to how he mentions being raped by Ser Keras.
It goes BOTH ways.

[AlexXIV]

jlb524 wrote...

FrobergDK wrote...

From reading all your responses I think I may have found my true gripe with the game as a whole: Mages & Templars.
I did not care for the subject in DA and DA:O - nor do I in DA2.

Yes, you don't care about that particular struggle so you cannot connect with Anders.

Similarly, you probably don't give a flip about the issues surrounding elves, either.  Thus, when you look at Merrill, you only see an idiotic blood mage and you miss completely the reasons for why she's doing what she is doing.

You can relate to Isabela more b/c you understand her reasons for doing what she did and you care about it/have an emotional investment.

Most really excuse Isabella because she's hot. I mean I liked her too until she betrayed Hawke. And I wouldn't know a good reason to like her other than she is hot.

[RagingCyclone]

So to Xilzhra and AlexXIV---when you say she more dedicated and not selfish in her need to fix the mirror, are you basing these opinion solely on DA2, or also taking into account how she is in Origins?

[FrobergDK]

jlb524 wrote...
Yes, you don't care about that particular struggle so you cannot connect with Anders.

Similarly, you probably don't give a flip about the issues surrounding elves, either.  Thus, when you look at Merrill, you only see an idiotic blood mage and you miss completely the reasons for why she's doing what she is doing.

You can relate to Isabela more b/c you understand her reasons for doing what she did and you care about it/have an emotional investment.

Actually, I care greatly about how elves are treated - and want them to return to their former glory, as it were. I think my main gripe is that the mage/templar bit is the sole and all-overshadowing plot device for the entire duration of the game. It's in almost every quest, in one way or another.

[Xilizhra]

RagingCyclone wrote...

So to Xilzhra and AlexXIV---when you say she more dedicated and not selfish in her need to fix the mirror, are you basing these opinion solely on DA2, or also taking into account how she is in Origins?

She didn't have a personality in Origins, something directly stated by the devs. You can glean nothing of her motivations from that.

[AlexXIV]

Xilizhra wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

So to Xilzhra and AlexXIV---when you say she more dedicated and not selfish in her need to fix the mirror, are you basing these opinion solely on DA2, or also taking into account how she is in Origins?

She didn't have a personality in Origins, something directly stated by the devs. You can glean nothing of her motivations from that.

Yeah despite the fact that my Warden is dalish origin I don't think much of the DA:O Merrill. Seems like an entirely different person to me. I know she is the same, but ... well you get to learn to know Merrill in DA2, not DA:O.

[FrobergDK]

Melca36 wrote...


Judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.
YES!!  That’s always a good idea. <_<


This type of thinking is truly dangerous, to say the least. I know
Dragon Age is just a game, but think about it.

I suggest you click on Alaine next time you're in the Gallows and listen to how he mentions being raped by Ser Keras.
It goes BOTH ways.

Wait a minute, who is this directed at exactly - and for what reason?

[RagingCyclone]

Xilizhra wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

So to Xilzhra and AlexXIV---when you say she more dedicated and not selfish in her need to fix the mirror, are you basing these opinion solely on DA2, or also taking into account how she is in Origins?

She didn't have a personality in Origins, something directly stated by the devs. You can glean nothing of her motivations from that.

Really? Which dev stated that? Because she does indeed have a personality in Origins. She is more focussed and forthwright as a first to Marethari. Much more objective especially when you first enter the cave. So are they saying that is not evident of a personality trait? Or that they chose to ignore that altogether?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

She did have a personality. It was not much of one but you could glean a small number of things from it. It was totally different from the one she has now so you can hardly even consider that the same character at all.

[whykikyouwhy]

AlexXIV wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

FrobergDK wrote...

From reading all your responses I think I may have found my true gripe with the game as a whole: Mages & Templars.
I did not care for the subject in DA and DA:O - nor do I in DA2.

Yes, you don't care about that particular struggle so you cannot connect with Anders.

Similarly, you probably don't give a flip about the issues surrounding elves, either.  Thus, when you look at Merrill, you only see an idiotic blood mage and you miss completely the reasons for why she's doing what she is doing.

You can relate to Isabela more b/c you understand her reasons for doing what she did and you care about it/have an emotional investment.

Most really excuse Isabella because she's hot. I mean I liked her too until she betrayed Hawke. And I wouldn't know a good reason to like her other than she is hot.

If Isabela (one "l") returns in Act 3, you'll get to see her entire story arc and all of the rich character development therein. That's one reason why players like her, and "excuse" her, to use that word lightly. And it's not so much excusing, since her actions make sense to who she was at the time.

Her hawtness is independent of that.

[jlb524]

RagingCyclone wrote...
When you step outside the box and take an objective view she mentions several times that she misses Tamlen and wants to find out what happened to him after his contact with the mirror. She even at one point wonders if he is still alive. Those are her true motivations. 

Her original motivation was to figure out what happened to Tamlen/Mahariel.  She states that at some point she gave up on the idea that Tamlen would still be alive and thus gives up on that.  She still decides to continue working on the mirror for the sake of restoring lost history.

Both motivations are selfless.

FrobergDK wrote...

Actually, I care greatly about how elves are treated - and want them to return to their former glory, as it were. I think my main gripe is that the mage/templar bit is the sole and all-overshadowing plot device for the entire duration of the game. It's in almost every quest, in one way or another. 

Then I don't understand why you are so hard on Merrill...Marethari should be the one who receives your ire.

I agree that I would have liked to see more stuff relating to elves.   However, the mage/templar conflict was the most immediate issue in Kirkwall given Meredith and how she ran the Circle.

Modifié par jlb524, 22 octobre 2011 - 05:19 .

[Xilizhra]

Really? Which dev stated that? Because she does indeed have a personality in Origins. She is more focussed and forthwright as a first to Marethari. Much more objective especially when you first enter the cave. So are they saying that is not evident of a personality trait? Or that they chose to ignore that altogether?

It was on the wiki but seems to have vanished. I'm currently looking for it elsewhere.