135 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Filament wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And attempting to blame Merrill for being mind controlled in the same way everyone else is is laughable.

Not necessarily, considering as a mage she ought to be better mentally prepared to resist a demon, compared to the other party members who don't live in that world. Also, calling it mind control sounds like a bit of conjecture.

Dalish mages aren't even Harrowed like Circle mages.  She might have better preparation than a non mage in theory, but this is Kirkwall, the place where mages become abominations in droves.

[Xilizhra]

Filament wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And attempting to blame Merrill for being mind controlled in the same way everyone else is is laughable.

Not necessarily, considering as a mage she ought to be better mentally prepared to resist a demon, compared to the other party members who don't live in that world. Also, calling it mind control sounds like a bit of conjecture.

Not really. She said she knew not to trust, but was basically mentally forced into it.

[Cobra's_back]

Xilizhra wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If she was the mother type that killed her children, she would have given her the tool and sent her to the mountain by herself to face the Pride Demon.

But that second part is exactly what she did. There was no warning, no telling the clan that there might be demon-related problems coming soon, no anything. She waited until they were isolated, followed them up to the cave and hulked out... and I suspect Audacity could only summon those ghost archers inside Pride's End.

There is nothing in the guide that supports your statement at all. There is no logic in your statement. She did warn the Clan that is why they feared Merrill. The guide and all supporting documentation point to Merrill being too naive to know how to stay out of trouble. The writer gave you clear info. on this. It appears you want to make up your own story. I don't support that the person who gave their life up for love should be characterized in this manner.

I'd agree if I saw anyone who actually did give up their life for love.

[Cobra's_back]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If she was the mother type that killed her children, she would have given her the tool and sent her to the mountain by herself to face the Pride Demon.

But that second part is exactly what she did. There was no warning, no telling the clan that there might be demon-related problems coming soon, no anything. She waited until they were isolated, followed them up to the cave and hulked out... and I suspect Audacity could only summon those ghost archers inside Pride's End.

There is nothing in the guide that supports your statement at all. There is no logic in your statement. She did warn the Clan that is why they feared Merrill. The guide and all supporting documentation point to Merrill being too naive to know how to stay out of trouble. The writer gave you clear info. on this. It appears you want to make up your own story. I don't support that the person who gave their life up for love should be characterized in this manner.

I'd agree if I saw anyone who actually did give up their life for love.

Why did she give up her life? The clan told me that the keeper loved Merrill more. Do you really think that love means yes to all?
In Act 2, Merrill invokes the right to earn that tool. Remember she states define the challenge. This means the keeper could not say no.
I truly believe if the keeper didn’t die Merrill would have. If Merrill was strong and never failed the Pride Demon in the fade, I would have supported her getting the tool. She didn’t. She was the first to go. By the way Sebastian does not fail the fade. He just hates you for taking him there. Merrill like Connor also made a demon pact. We all know how that turned out. What data do you have that states Merrill wouldn’t have been taken by the Pride demon?
 

[Xilizhra]

Why did she give up her life? The clan told me that the keeper loved Merrill more. Do you really think that love means yes to all?

I don't think the clan was completely right.

In Act 2, Merrill invokes the right to earn that tool. Remember she states define the challenge. This means the keeper could not say no.

Well, she did cheat by giving the arulin'holm to Hawke.

By the way Sebastian does not fail the fade. He just hates you for taking him there.

What the hell? Sebastian doesn't fail in the Fade because he never goes. If he's in your party when Night Terrors begins, he refuses to join, stating that the Fade is "no place for a man of faith." And given that Allure tempted him some even outside the Fade, I don't think he'd have lasted long.
If this is the stuff you're getting out of your precious guide, you'll forgive me if I don't take it as gospel.

Merrill like Connor also made a demon pact. We all know how that turned out. What data do you have that states Merrill wouldn’t have been taken by the Pride demon?

I just don't think that Audacity wanted to possess Merrill; Merrill was too guarded. Audacity's goal seemed to have been to possess Marethari and then kill Merrill.

[FrobergDK]

Actually Sebastian just started questioning his motives when confronted with Allure, I didn't get the impression he was buying what her and her spectacular rack was selling.

[Cobra's_back]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why did she give up her life? The clan told me that the keeper loved Merrill more. Do you really think that love means yes to all?

I don't think the clan was completely right.

In Act 2, Merrill invokes the right to earn that tool. Remember she states define the challenge. This means the keeper could not say no.

Well, she did cheat by giving the arulin'holm to Hawke.

By the way Sebastian does not fail the fade. He just hates you for taking him there.

What the hell? Sebastian doesn't fail in the Fade because he never goes. If he's in your party when Night Terrors begins, he refuses to join, stating that the Fade is "no place for a man of faith." And given that Allure tempted him some even outside the Fade, I don't think he'd have lasted long.
If this is the stuff you're getting out of your precious guide, you'll forgive me if I don't take it as gospel.

Merrill like Connor also made a demon pact. We all know how that turned out. What data do you have that states Merrill wouldn’t have been taken by the Pride demon?

I just don't think that Audacity wanted to possess Merrill; Merrill was too guarded. Audacity's goal seemed to have been to possess Marethari and then kill Merrill.

You didn't answer the question. Why did she give up her life?  You are adding in your own ideas. The writer wrote the clan members in.

What proof do you have about Audacity?? Where is it written that Merrill was too guarded. Nothing you have said seems to match the story. How is she guarded?? Why did she fail the fade if she is guarded??? She didn't give the tool to Merrill and Hawke was the leader of the team. She technically didn't cheat. She gave it to the leader of the team.

Answer the question please. From the info given in the story why did the keeper give her life ????

[Xilizhra]

She didn't give the tool to Merrill and Hawke was the leader of the team. She technically didn't cheat. She gave it to the leader of the team.

Merrill made the request, Hawke is just a tagalong.

Answer the question please. From the info given in the story why did the keeper give her life ????

I don't think she did. I think Audacity took it. And timewise, Marethari had to have been possessed by the time A New Path begins.

[Cobra's_back]

Xilizhra wrote...

She didn't give the tool to Merrill and Hawke was the leader of the team. She technically didn't cheat. She gave it to the leader of the team.

Merrill made the request, Hawke is just a tagalong.

Answer the question please. From the info given in the story why did the keeper give her life ????

I don't think she did. I think Audacity took it. And timewise, Marethari had to have been possessed by the time A New Path begins.

I don't agree, but I'll respect your thoughts. I now understand your ideas even if I don't support them.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Filament wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And attempting to blame Merrill for being mind controlled in the same way everyone else is is laughable.

Not necessarily, considering as a mage she ought to be better mentally prepared to resist a demon, compared to the other party members who don't live in that world. Also, calling it mind control sounds like a bit of conjecture.

Not really. She said she knew not to trust, but was basically mentally forced into it.

You mean this?

Demons are supposed to be beguiling. She fell into the trap, same as everyone else.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Wryme made it clear that he was more powerful than Audacity:

I am the greatest of my kind. Whatever tricks your little pet has taught you will pale in comparison to my glory!
.

He's a Pride Demon! And he was trying to temp Merrill with an offer. Of course he'd say that.

I also think that Merril being tempted in the fade by Wryme is more noteworthy than the others because for them it was an isolated incident. None of the others (except Justice and Anders) will be reguarly interacting with demons in the Fade. She would have been often if she kept up her along her path.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:51 .

[AlexXIV]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Filament wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And attempting to blame Merrill for being mind controlled in the same way everyone else is is laughable.

Not necessarily, considering as a mage she ought to be better mentally prepared to resist a demon, compared to the other party members who don't live in that world. Also, calling it mind control sounds like a bit of conjecture.

Not really. She said she knew not to trust, but was basically mentally forced into it.

You mean this?

Demons are supposed to be beguiling. She fell into the trap, same as everyone else.

Fist off, why do people make custom Hawkes if they end up so much uglier than the default?

Also, funny how Hawke resists demons. I know 3 people so far who could. Morrigan, the Warden and Hawke. I don't think it is all about being protagonist. After all Morrigan isn't a protagonist either. And since it doesn't depend on class either it must be willpower or mental strength or something along this.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 22 octobre 2011 - 10:57 .

[TEWR]

FrobergDK wrote...

Actually Sebastian just started questioning his motives when confronted with Allure, I didn't get the impression he was buying what her and her spectacular rack was selling.

The demon wasn't wrong you know. -- Sebastian Vael

No matter how much he wanted to believe he wasn't doing it for himself, he was indeed doing it for himself. Does that mean he can't be a good ruler to the people of Starkhaven? No, he could be. But his primary reasons were ultimately because he wanted to be in the spotlight now that he's the last remaining heir to the Vael throne that isn't some distant moronic relative.

[Herr Uhl]

AlexXIV wrote...

Fist off, why do people make custom Hawkes if they end up so much uglier than the default?

Because they want to play an ugly Hawke?

Also, funny how Hawke resists demons. I know 3 people so far who could. Morrigan, the Warden and Hawke. I don't think it is all about being protagonist. After all Morrigan isn't a protagonist either. And since it doesn't depend on class either it must be willpower or mental strength or something along this.

Eh, if you say Morrigan resists it I'd argue Sten does the same. Both are aware that they're in an illusion but wouldn't be able to break free without the warden. Granted, Sten is more reluctant to do so.

Hawke and Warden have PC-power though.

[Xilizhra]

Also, funny how Hawke resists demons. I know 3 people so far who could. Morrigan, the Warden and Hawke. I don't think it is all about being protagonist. After all Morrigan isn't a protagonist either. And since it doesn't depend on class either it must be willpower or mental strength or something along this.

The demons are out to kill Hawke, not tempt her, because they're pissed at having Feynriel taken away. So they don't bother.

[FrobergDK]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

FrobergDK wrote...

Actually Sebastian just started questioning his motives when confronted with Allure, I didn't get the impression he was buying what her and her spectacular rack was selling.

The demon wasn't wrong you know. -- Sebastian Vael

No matter how much he wanted to believe he wasn't doing it for himself, he was indeed doing it for himself. Does that mean he can't be a good ruler to the people of Starkhaven? No, he could be. But his primary reasons were ultimately because he wanted to be in the spotlight now that he's the last remaining heir to the Vael throne that isn't some distant moronic relative.

How is that contradictory to what I was saying though? He was not tempted to go the easy route by the demon, whether or not it had meassured him correctly is not pertinent to anything.

[TEWR]

FrobergDK wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

FrobergDK wrote...

Actually Sebastian just started questioning his motives when confronted with Allure, I didn't get the impression he was buying what her and her spectacular rack was selling.

The demon wasn't wrong you know. -- Sebastian Vael

No matter how much he wanted to believe he wasn't doing it for himself, he was indeed doing it for himself. Does that mean he can't be a good ruler to the people of Starkhaven? No, he could be. But his primary reasons were ultimately because he wanted to be in the spotlight now that he's the last remaining heir to the Vael throne that isn't some distant moronic relative.

How is that contradictory to what I was saying though? He was not tempted to go the easy route by the demon, whether or not it had meassured him correctly is not pertinent to anything.

I don't think the demon was offering him anything to begin with. She just looked inside him and saw all the ambition he was trying to hide from himself.

[FrobergDK]

Yes, but she did not tempt him with anything. As soon as she was in "make him an offer" mode - he cut her down! ;-)

[Sharn01]

Does anyone else find it amusing that most of the hate for some of the characters is against npc's who steadfastly believe that they are right in what they are doing, and are upset because they steadfastly believe they are right and that everyone should see things their way?

Modifié par Sharn01, 23 octobre 2011 - 08:18 .

[FrobergDK]

Sharn01 wrote...

Does anyone else find it amusing that most of the hate for some of the characters is against npc's who steadfastly believe that they are right in what they are doing, and are upset because they steadfastly believe they are right and that everyone should see things their way?

I just don't think blood magic should ever be considered 'safe'.

Nor do I believe, as Fenris does, that what the Qunari do to their mages is a great way to go about things.

[megski]

I agree with the OP that everyone gives me the 'crazy' impression except Bethany, she is my favorite mage too.

I like Merrill, but I have a hard time understanding her. During my first play through, it was hard for me to gain friendship points with her, even with helping her do everything to fix the mirror. I could not understand for anything why when I accepted responsibility for Merrill's actions after the Keeper's death, I gained rivalry points with Merrill. Because right after the confrontation with the clan she says something along the lines of, 'thanks hawke, they would have killed me if you weren't here.'

I also think that she is naive, she doesn't believe or understand that her blood magic can or does have a price. Whether it is evil or not, I think that it does have a higher price to pay in the long run versus traditional magic. I think that she is also immature. If you're in a relationship with her when Leandra dies, Hawke says something about his mother being with the maker, she argues it a little and says something like 'or with this elven god.' Really Merrill? Don't argue with sad Hawke when it makes him feel better to think his mom is in heaven. This could also be Merrill's lack of social skills too, instead of immaturity.

I also think that Marethari was doing the best she could with Merrill. On the one hand, she knew that she needed to warn the clan because of Merrill's risky behavior but on the other she loved Merrill and did want to protect her. No one is perfect, not even our parents, some times they don't make the best decisions and Marethari didn't handle the situation perfectly but I think she tried to do the best she could. I think ultimately, Marethari was selfish and did sacrifice herself to protect Merrill even though it was dangerous to the clan.

[LobselVith8]

So Merrill is naive because Marethari become an abomination of her own volition, megski? I don't see the price with blood magic when it's an issue of using blood instead of mana. Merrill doesn't recklessly use demonology to summon a plethora of demons, she doesn't use mind control, she doesn't abuse her magical abilities. In fact, she chastises Anders about all spirits being dangerous, and she contests his Andrastian view of the Fade because she doesn't believe that the spirits are the "Maker's FIrst Children."

Also, Merrill doesn't argue with Hawke. If Hawke acts obscene or angry, Merrill apologizes to Hawke and leaves. If Hawke accepts Merrill's company, she makes a brief comment about the possibility that Hawke's mother could be with an elven god in the afterlife. Are you honestly condemning Merrill for being supportive and not Andrastian?

Marethari risked the lives of every member of her clan by becoming an abomination and warning no one about it until it was too late. It seemed more like Audacity was targeting Marethari and was able to successfully manipulate her into letting Audacity free of its prison, which Merrill states she has no intention of doing.

[TEWR]

I also think that she is naive, she doesn't believe or understand that her blood magic can or does have a price. Whether it is evil or not, I think that it does have a higher price to pay in the long run versus traditional magic. I think that she is also immature. If you're in a relationship with her when Leandra dies, Hawke says something about his mother being with the maker, she argues it a little and says something like 'or with this elven god.' Really Merrill? Don't argue with sad Hawke when it makes him feel better to think his mom is in heaven. This could also be Merrill's lack of social skills too, instead of immaturity.

how the hell is her saying "Or with Falon'Din. You never know." immature? It's the elven god of the dead and no one knows what gods are real.

She's trying to console Hawke by saying that Leandra is with whomever watches over the dead. She's not trying to convert him.

She says prior to that "Ir abelas, ma vhenan" which translates to -- as the wiki says -- "Condolences, my love". She understands that what he's going through is tough and that he needs someone to lean on.

She's not being immature. She's being considerate and saying that wherever Leandra is and whoever she's with, she's in a better place.

[megski]

LobselVith8 wrote...

So Merrill is naive because Marethari become an abomination of her own volition, megski? I don't see the price with blood magic when it's an issue of using blood instead of mana. Merrill doesn't recklessly use demonology to summon a plethora of demons, she doesn't use mind control, she doesn't abuse her magical abilities. In fact, she chastises Anders about all spirits being dangerous, and she contests his Andrastian view of the Fade because she doesn't believe that the spirits are the "Maker's FIrst Children."  

.  

I said that she is naive because she just seems to think that nothing bad is going to happen.  Merrill doesn't seem to think that her magic could affect anyone other than herself.  It wasn't her fault what Marethari did, but it was an indirect consequence because of Merrill's actions.  Even though she tries to be responsible and only involve herself, blood magic always seems to emcompass other people at some point.   Is there ever an incident in the dragon age universe where using blood magic doesn't end in something horrible for some one?  I think that no matter what using blood magic is always bad ju ju, I have yet to see it in another light.  I remember Anders as the one griping at Merrill, trying to scare her away from blood magic and demons.  I think Merrill was the one who said that spirits and demons were basically the same thing.  

Also, Merrill doesn't argue with Hawke. If Hawke acts obscene or angry, Merrill apologizes to Hawke and leaves. If Hawke accepts Merrill's company, she makes a brief comment about the possibility that Hawke's mother could be with an elven god in the afterlife. Are you honestly condemning Merrill for being supportive and not Andrastian?  

.  

I know that is what happens, and to me that comment was insensitive.  I don't think she meant it to be, but it still struck me as such.  I'm not condemning her for not being Andrastian, I am saying the comment is insensitive and not the best time to express that belief.  

 Marethari risked the lives of every member of her clan by becoming an abomination and warning no one about it until it was too late. It seemed more like Audacity was targeting Marethari and was able to successfully manipulate her into letting Audacity free of its prison, which Merrill states she has no intention of doing.

I never said that she didn't risk their lives, I only said that she didn't know what to do, and did something that turned out to be a mistake.  Perhaps Marethari was the one that was targeted, but Merrill doesn't know what is going to happen, which is why she asks Hawke to come along.