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[Corker]

OMG, there's at least one Alistar/Anora that's just hysterical... let me see if I can find the quote...

She grabbed his collar with both hands. “Take me now, Alistair!” she cried, pulling him to his feet. “Take me like Bhelen Aeducan took the throne!”

He looked briefly confused. “In front of an assembly of deshyrs and with a blatant disregard for the elective process?”

She looked back at him through fluttering eyelashes. “I was thinking ‘Roughly,’” she said, as she shimmied out of her smallclothes, “and at the pleasure of a Grey Warden.’”

“Oh, phew!”

If you are 18+, aren't offended by naughty things, and like to laugh, go read Shop Talk.

[Corker]

Bleachrude wrote...

Actually I'm kind of surprised by how little slash there is in Dragon Age fanfiction circles. It would not be a lie I think to say that 40% of HP fanfiction is slash but even with an explicit homosexual pairing in the game, I think there's less than say 10-15% in Dragon age 1 (ignore DA2).

Back before the delicious bookmarking site went belly-up, I tried to run some rough statistics on the kmeme, because I was wondering if some of the things I was seeing were real or just confirmation bias at work.  Het with a female insert character (Warden or Hawke) was the most popular, with slash next, and not all that far behind.  IIRC, there were almost 50% more slash fills for DA2 as DAO, and it seemed like most of the difference was from NPC/NPC pairings; there were proportionally about as many slash fills for m!Warden/m!LI and m!Hawke/m!LI, but then there was a heaping helping of m!NPC/m!NPC for DA2.  There really *is* that much Fenders.  F/F pairings were at the sad, neglected bottom of the heap, less than 10% of all filled prompts for both games. 

(I was looking at filled, not prompted; there were some difficulties in determining the relationship in some cases without examining every fill individually; fills involving three or more partners were problematical. I can try and recall my methodology if anyone cares but the real take-home lesson is that these are more trends than facts.)

EDIT: Het with a male insert character... I don't honestly recall.  I want to say it was less common or about as common as slash in DAO, with slash being ahead in DA2 because of the Fenders Effect.

Modifié par Corker, 25 octobre 2011 - 12:14 .

[Addai]

I'm confused- how do you determine a character is "self insert"?

Modifié par Addai67, 25 octobre 2011 - 03:05 .

[JessJones]

Corker wrote...

OMG, there's at least one Alistar/Anora that's just hysterical... let me see if I can find the quote...

She grabbed his collar with both hands. “Take me now, Alistair!” she cried, pulling him to his feet. “Take me like Bhelen Aeducan took the throne!”

He looked briefly confused. “In front of an assembly of deshyrs and with a blatant disregard for the elective process?”

She looked back at him through fluttering eyelashes. “I was thinking ‘Roughly,’” she said, as she shimmied out of her smallclothes, “and at the pleasure of a Grey Warden.’”

“Oh, phew!”

If you are 18+, aren't offended by naughty things, and like to laugh, go read Shop Talk.

LOL, that's also by me, Corker.  Thank you

[Esbatty]

Mike Smith wrote...

Anora-M Cousland fanfics are as rare as roc's teeth- Corin is the only one ongoing right now.

I'll update "The Crown and The Queller" eventually...

[Raonar]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm confused- how do you determine a character is "self insert"?

The term is misused badly.

Self-insert is when a character in a story is specifically stated by the author to be him or herself. That is the ONLY instance when the term Self-Insert applies (like when you fall down a rabbit hole and become the character).

When a character in a story shares the views and personality of the Author, but supposedly belongs to the setting, it is an Author Avatar.

As for characters that exist only to state the author's opinions on things and don't actually participate directly in the plot, those are Author Surrogates.

Unfortunately, people use "self-insert" interchangeable with these two more often than not which, in turn, caused these two other techniques to gain a much worse reputation than they deserve. 

Self-insert wouldn't be so badly seen either if it didn't most often degenerate into Mary Sue territory.

[Corker]

Raonar wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I'm confused- how do you determine a character is "self insert"?

The term is misused badly.

Color me crazy, but I don't think I'm misusing it for the porn list, guys. 

There's porn you write with a character the reader can insert herself with.  (Hurr hurr.)  It'll be from her POV, probably although not strictly.  And if the kmeme prompt trends are at all indicative, people want to insert themselves via the character they played in the video game.  Not a stretch.  More than your usual fanfic, this is a big part of the genre, for reasons which I'm sure you can guess. 

---
Edit: FWIW, there's additionally something of a subgenre of prompts that go something like, "Anon had a really bad day/has a birthday/just got a cat so I want to see something where Warden/Hawke is having a bad day/has a birthday/gets a cat and then there's sex."  If that doesn't suggest a desire for self-insertion, I'm not sure what would.
---

Then there's the porn you write that's voyeuristic, which for this fandom I'd say is largely the slash.  (I find the Fenders Effect indicative of this; the dramatic increase in slash in the DA2 thread is mostly in NPC/NPC pairing, which is unusual in DAO, where the Warden rules.) I haven't read much/any erotica that was marketed to gay men, but I have this feeling that the slash on the kmeme is not really representative of the genre.  It's mostly by and for straight women who want to ogle hot men in bed.

Hence the dearth of f/f.  I guess the fandom overall isn't lesbian, bi, or bicurious enough to want to insert on an f/f fill, nor is it of interest for them to watch from afar.  So those pairings get few prompts and fewer fills.

Modifié par Corker, 25 octobre 2011 - 10:56 .

[Corker]

@JessJones, as someone who likes to read and to write bawdy humor pieces, it's really excellent. I posted it to the Recommendations thread a while back, because that bit I quoted is just immortal. Alistair's line in particular... there's an almost poetic cadence to it. Love it. XD

[JessJones]

Corker wrote...

@JessJones, as someone who likes to read and to write bawdy humor pieces, it's really excellent. I posted it to the Recommendations thread a while back, because that bit I quoted is just immortal. Alistair's line in particular... there's an almost poetic cadence to it. Love it. XD

Ooo, I was in a recomendations thread?  Thank you  I don't come here too often, I didn't see that.

If you're curious, this is my other bawdy Anoristair fill (Whatever You Want), because as mentioned above, I write a lot of Anora/Alistair.  

And my socially acceptable work is on fanfiction.net, under Jessica Jones (link)

To the original question... Anora is a character fandom loves to hate, and Alistair is a character fangirls love to love, so I'm not surprised the pairing isn't popular.  But I like Anora, a lot, and I'm not interested in writing pairings that are popular, because I figure someone else has already written it better, and I like being able to say things like "I have written the best Finn/Dagna story out there!!"

So that's why I wrote Love & Levirate, anyway.  I'm perfectly happy being the only one on FF.net, but that's just me being selfish 

[Corker]

YOU!! You are the Finn/Dagna person! That was my prompt! XD Thank you, thank you. That was the sweetest thing ever! I wanted to 'ship them in my pulp serial, but Finn not going back to the Tower kind of puts a cramp in that. :/

(BTW, the recommendations thread of which I speak isn't here, it's over on the kmeme.)

[JessJones]

Corker wrote...

YOU!! You are the Finn/Dagna person! That was my prompt! XD Thank you, thank you.

Oh, no wait.  This can't be ... is there another Finn/Dagna shipper!?  Because mine wasn't in response to a prompt, it was for a swap with SagaciousRage on People of Thedas. 

My story is here: The Romantic Adventures of Florian Phinneas Horatio Aldebrant ... which one are you talking about?  I must know!!  

[Corker]

That is the story... I'll check when I get home and PM you (since we're veering wildly off-topic atm). I dimly recall that it was just linked to, not copy/pasted in, and I assumed by the author but maybe it was Helpful Random Anon.

[JessJones]

Corker wrote...

That is the story... I'll check when I get home and PM you (since we're veering wildly off-topic atm). I dimly recall that it was just linked to, not copy/pasted in, and I assumed by the author but maybe it was Helpful Random Anon.

Ah.  Well, still cool, I'm glad you liked it!

Back on topic:

It's not exactly what you're talking about, Bleachrude, but Two Roads is a fairly long story where Alistair and Loghain try to work together (among other things, hur hur).  Again, I think fans who really like Alistair tend to dislike the Mac Tirs, so I guess that's why it's not a popular pair of characters to write.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

JessJones wrote...

I think fans who really like Alistair tend to dislike the Mac Tirs, so I guess that's why it's not a popular pair of characters to write.

And vice versa, for many Loghain fans. Although most of the fics I've read that treat the Anora/Alistair relationship are primarily Loghain fics with an Anoristair subplot, and many of them have those two coming to an understanding and in some cases growing to genuinely like or even love each other, while Loghain and the PC are off doing whatever the author has planned for them. Anora seems to get magically knocked up a lot, too.

Finn/Dagna -- I'm intrigued, but somewhat leery. I imagine there is lots of talking.

[JessJones]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

JessJones wrote...

I think fans who really like Alistair tend to dislike the Mac Tirs, so I guess that's why it's not a popular pair of characters to write.

And vice versa, for many Loghain fans. Although most of the fics I've read that treat the Anora/Alistair relationship are primarily Loghain fics with an Anoristair subplot, and many of them have those two coming to an understanding and in some cases growing to genuinely like or even love each other, while Loghain and the PC are off doing whatever the author has planned for them. Anora seems to get magically knocked up a lot, too.

Finn/Dagna -- I'm intrigued, but somewhat leery. I imagine there is lots of talking.

Yes, that too... I think pairing Alistair with Anora in a Loghain fic is a nice way to tie off his story.  So that you don't have to kill him, and to prove that Loghain surviving is OK - see, even Alistair doesn't mind, he's happy now, tralala.  Like in Lilith Morgana's story, which I really like, actually.

Hehe, yeah I'm also guilty of the Convenient Pregnancy.  But it's not magic!  You see, when two people grow to tolerate each other very much... 

re Finn/Dagna: There is lots of talking, and rambling interior monologue, and awkwardness, and it's so cutesy it will put you in a coma.  That's how I roll.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

JessJones wrote...

Yes, that too... I think pairing Alistair with Anora in a Loghain fic is a nice way to tie off his story.  So that you don't have to kill him, and to prove that Loghain surviving is OK - see, even Alistair doesn't mind, he's happy now, tralala.  Like in Lilith Morgana's story, which I really like, actually.

Hehe, yeah I'm also guilty of the Convenient Pregnancy.  But it's not magic!  You see, when two people grow to tolerate each other very much... 

re Finn/Dagna: There is lots of talking, and rambling interior monologue, and awkwardness, and it's so cutesy it will put you in a coma.  That's how I roll.

Reading Lilith Morgana's fic was the reason I decided to put my own Loghain story out into the world, actually. Though my story has unhardened Drunkistair in it, so there's no magical/convenient child-wish-fulfillment in Anora's future --at least not from that direction, anyway. Maybe the Fade spirits will place one in her arms like Wynne says.

I couldn't keep Dagna from making an appearance, though. She is a force of nature as irresistable as champagne bubbles. And now I'm too intrigued not to read that fic of yours. *Sigh* another one to put on my ever-growing list of "to be read when I have a moment to spare". . .

[Maria13]

The Alistair pregnancies? Doesn't have to be magic, if the taint didn't fully take on Fiona why should it take on him? It's genetic. And/or it's possible the Theirin's are super-fertile thus Maric manages to impregnate GW Fiona after just a couple of copulations. Arguably also Alistair is a recently minted GW and the taint takes a few years to cause utter infertility...

Or there could be some more sinister explanations...

Irresistible Dagna? Appears in the very last chapter of "Dark Ritual" with spectacles!!!

Modifié par Maria13, 25 octobre 2011 - 08:27 .

[Addai]

Corker wrote...

Raonar wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I'm confused- how do you determine a character is "self insert"?

The term is misused badly.

Color me crazy, but I don't think I'm misusing it for the porn list, guys. 

There's porn you write with a character the reader can insert herself with.  (Hurr hurr.)  It'll be from her POV, probably although not strictly.  And if the kmeme prompt trends are at all indicative, people want to insert themselves via the character they played in the video game.  Not a stretch.  More than your usual fanfic, this is a big part of the genre, for reasons which I'm sure you can guess. 

---
Edit: FWIW, there's additionally something of a subgenre of prompts that go something like, "Anon had a really bad day/has a birthday/just got a cat so I want to see something where Warden/Hawke is having a bad day/has a birthday/gets a cat and then there's sex."  If that doesn't suggest a desire for self-insertion, I'm not sure what would.
---

Then there's the porn you write that's voyeuristic, which for this fandom I'd say is largely the slash.  (I find the Fenders Effect indicative of this; the dramatic increase in slash in the DA2 thread is mostly in NPC/NPC pairing, which is unusual in DAO, where the Warden rules.) I haven't read much/any erotica that was marketed to gay men, but I have this feeling that the slash on the kmeme is not really representative of the genre.  It's mostly by and for straight women who want to ogle hot men in bed.

Hence the dearth of f/f.  I guess the fandom overall isn't lesbian, bi, or bicurious enough to want to insert on an f/f fill, nor is it of interest for them to watch from afar.  So those pairings get few prompts and fewer fills.

Okay.  I don't read the kmeme, so I'm still confused, but obviously this is just a culture and vocab of its own.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Maria13 wrote...

Irresistible Dagna? Appears in the very last chapter of "Dark Ritual" with spectacles!!!

D'aww. . .Haven't read "Dark Ritual" *coughs guiltily* so I had to skip through all the "last chapter, la la la, no spoilers please" to get to her bit. Very funny. Dagna has met her match in run-on sentences, it seems.

[JessJones]

Maria13 wrote...

The Alistair pregnancies? Doesn't have to be magic, if the taint didn't fully take on Fiona why should it take on him? It's genetic. And/or it's possible the Theirin's are super-fertile thus Maric manages to impregnate GW Fiona after just a couple of copulations. Arguably also Alistair is a recently minted GW and the taint takes a few years to cause utter infertility...

Re: babies, the only person from whom you hear about this  Grey Warden infertility is Alistair.  And Alistair both... not an expert in where babies come from (lol), and also poorly informed on general Grey Warden stuff.  He was a noob after all, he didn't even know about how Grey Wardens kill Archdemons.  So I think it's quite possible that he's misinformed.  Remember, the only evidence he gives is, "Well, I don't know any Wardens with kids, so...."

I mean, what?  Come on, Alistair.  You only knew like... twenty Grey Wardens.  There are lots of explanations other than "We can't make babies."  (You're just looking for an excuse to dump my elf aren't you??!?)

[Morwen Eledhwen]

Getting Anora preggers as quickly as possible is also a good way of saying "Hey, Cailan! So you thought your lack of an heir just *had* to have been your wife's fault, huh? Riiigght. . ."

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

JessJones wrote...

Re: babies, the only person from whom you hear about this  Grey Warden infertility is Alistair.  And Alistair both... not an expert in where babies come from (lol), and also poorly informed on general Grey Warden stuff.  He was a noob after all, he didn't even know about how Grey Wardens kill Archdemons.  So I think it's quite possible that he's misinformed.  Remember, the only evidence he gives is, "Well, I don't know any Wardens with kids, so...."

I mean, what?  Come on, Alistair.  You only knew like... twenty Grey Wardens.  There are lots of explanations other than "We can't make babies."  (You're just looking for an excuse to dump my elf aren't you??!?)

Well, in Alistair's defence, he'll use that as an excuse not to marry a human noble as well.

I don't think he'd be doing that on a vague assumption that Grey Wardens perhaps maybe don't have children with each other. It sounds like something he might have actually asked about at some point like the lifespan, the hunger, the dreams that keep getting worse. Why accept he's 'informed' on those but not the baby issue? Because he's a guy?

[JessJones]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I don't think he'd be doing that on a vague assumption that Grey Wardens perhaps maybe don't have children with each other. It sounds like something he might have actually asked about at some point like the lifespan, the hunger, the dreams that keep getting worse. Why accept he's 'informed' on those but not the baby issue? Because he's a guy?

No, haha.  Just because of the way he says it, it sounded unsure to me.  I know David Gaider has confirmed it outside the game and everything, but my Warden was unconvinced.

I actually have some doubts about some other things he says too, but that's a whole other crack theory and so off topic

[Maria13]

Thanks Morwen!

[Merilsell]

Bleachrude wrote...
I can see why the amell/surana and alistair pairings are popular since you have the whole mage and templar thing going there but both Mahariel and Tabris being more popular than Aeducan/alistair? Kind of surprising to me anyway... ..

<--- Is totally guilty of that. But hey back in the days where I started my Mahariel/Alistair story, there were no decent stories about that pairing. Decent in term of respecting their cultural differences and not in a TAKE ME NOW, HUMAN -- way So because there were no Mahariel FF to read for my taste, I started to write my own. I would never have thought that there would be so many stories for this rather unusual pairing as there are today, though.

But I approve. 

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Really, Morrigan/Alistair makes as much sense as Fenris/Anders.

Some people really really like matchmaking characters who hate each other for some reason.

Word.

Nothing personal, but I loathe Morrigan/Alistair - pairing-FF's with a fiery passion. Then again, I have never understood and never will understand people's fascination with pairing characters up who obviously hate each other. I mean, it doesn't make any...sense and is totally OOC, imo.