356 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

That was neat footage. Good to see them being so upbeat about it all.

The issues they did bring up make me happy. Now all I need are more details. But that'll have to wait till ME3 is out, I suppose.

[Seagloom]

@Brock

Isolde's model looks like an improvement. Less detail, but rounder features seem to suit her. She looks more vibrant and youthful despite being paler.

Morrigan's facemorph is admittedly bad in overall aesthetics. Where I part company with you is that I do not think perfection actually matters here. Yes, she looks worse. No question. However, she is still recognizable as Morrigan at a glance. If the concern is over relatively consistent features in order to maintain visual continuity, I think close enough is adequate.

This reminds me of the whole DAO modding mindset to pretty up every NPC possible for no other reason than they are somehow "better" that way. If we were talking Isabela's features changing between games I might agree. In Morrigan's case I get the feeling it is all about physical beauty with continuity acting as a rationalization for it.

Modifié par Seagloom, 23 octobre 2011 - 02:30 .

[Herr Uhl]

Seagloom wrote...

Morrigan's facemorph is admittedly bad in overall aesthetics. Where I part company with you is that I do not think perfection actually matters here. Yes, she looks worse. No question. However, she is still recognizable as Morrigan at a glance. If the concern is over relatively consistent features in order to maintain visual continuity, I think close enough is adequate.

I'm not sure how much effort was put into it either.

[Seagloom]

I imagine not a whole heck of a lot considering she had no role in DA2. I would hope whoever worked on her could do better than that if they planned to use her.

[Mr.House]

Brockololly wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
I missed this earlier and found it puzzling. Why is her appearance that important as long as she is recognizable as the same character? Morrigan may not even need that sliver of consistency considering she is a shapechanger and could have surpassed her skills in DAO by the time of her next appearance. Are we that shallow? Rhetorical question: of course we are.

Its my personal vendetta with all of DA2's face morph system- it sucks.

With every returning character like Alistair, Leliana, Isolde or Teagan they're clearly trying to recreate them as they looked in Origins in terms of their facial structure. And in every instance they end up looking like poorly made fan mods. Whether they just made those faces up really quick, I don't know. But the whole point in cameos to me is having the old characters visually identifiable by their faces- change their outfits, change their hair, whatever- but their facial structure shouldn't change. Yet every Origins cameo has the same bloated jaw, overly rounded noses and Botoxed skin thats endemic to every DA2 facemorph. Its not a matter of them trying to make Alistair look fat after several years, its that DA2 has a ****ty facemorph system that leaves you with craptastic faces and a lighting system that doesn't help matters. And its especially distracting in a game where you're conversing a good portion of the time.

Its not like the new facemorph system is leaps and bounds better than DAO's either. It just gives everyone Mr. Potato Head faces with so many people having the same stock parts slapped on, with various features looking exactly the same. If DA2's system was Frostbite 2 levels of technical prowess, I'd be fine if they looked or animated a little better. But the difference I see in DA2's faces is that they look like they've been coated in plastic, injected with Botox and have gone to the Thomas the Tank Engine school of over emoting.

So yeah. As for Morrigan, giving her a wholesale new face would just be like what they did with Flemeth which just seems like a cheap copout. It kills any sense of continuity, its like having a character recast in a series of movies. I hate that.

Origins Isolde

DA2 Isolde:


And which Morrigan is not like the others? (Hint, the middle one is Morrigan's facemorph as found in DA2:sick:)

Seeing as Leli, Nate, Merrill, Izzy, Cullen, Anders and even Isolde look better in DA2 then DAO I don't see the issue.

Modifié par Mr.House, 23 octobre 2011 - 02:56 .

[alex90c]

Seriously, that DA2 Morrigan facemorph needs to die.

[Brockololly]

Seagloom wrote...

@Brock

Isolde's model looks like an improvement. Less detail, but rounder features seem to suit her. She looks more vibrant and youthful despite being paler.

Thats my issue with most of the DA2 faces though- all of the females have that same rounded face, same lips, eyes, features. If you take away the hairstyle or the fact that the first words out of Isolde's mouth are "Who iz diz man Teagan!?" it doesn't seem much like Isolde from DAO. Certainly DAO Isolde isn't anything to write home about, but she at least had some expression in her face as opposed to DA2's Botox version. DA2 Isolde looks like just about every other female in the game.

Seagloom wrote...
Morrigan's facemorph is admittedly bad in overall aesthetics. Where I part company with you is that I do not think perfection actually matters here. Yes, she looks worse. No question. However, she is still recognizable as Morrigan at a glance. If the concern is over relatively consistent features in order to maintain visual continuity, I think close enough is adequate.

Well, I disagree. You take away her sort of trademark hairstyle and put her in different clothing or makeup and that facemorph wouldn't be recognizable as Morrigan. The eyes are totally wrong, as is the nose, the lips and the overall shape of the face. Nevermind that she has angry Uncle Leo style drawn on eyebrows. I don't think its very close at all. I can tell they were maybe trying to get it similar, but it just reminds me of all the countless facemorph mods you have for all the characters in DAO or DA2.

I just think they did a crappy job making the new facemorph system overall and the fact they can't bring over the Origins faces is just another area where the game feels like it was hastily put together. Why they didn't have that functionality built in when they bother with bringing over cameos just seems kind of myopic. It would be one thing if the new system was a great leap forward technology wise with the faces looking and moving much better, but they don't.

Seagloom wrote...
This reminds me of the whole DAO modding mindset to pretty up every NPC  possible for no other reason than they are somehow "better" that way. If we were talking Isabela's features changing between games I might
agree. In Morrigan's case I get the feeling it is all about physical  beauty with continuity acting as a rationalization for it.

Thats my problem with most of the DA2 faces though- they all look like the mods you see for various faces where they all look generically pretty or overly similar. Its the same thing with the DA2 faces by default though, as any of the more unique aspects of the DAO characters were lost in translation and they just adopted the stock Mr. Potato Head features the DA2 facemorph system is stuck with. So everyone has the same bloated jaw, the same eyebrows, the same style of rounded nose, the same Botoxed skin, the same bulging eyes, the same nubby teeth, the same Jay Leno chin... Its a matter of having the same facial structure and features from game to game for a given character, maintaining their unique look in their face. If BioWare is so intent on creating unique looks for companions, they should spend more time ensuring that they have consistency in the actual faces and facial features  from game to game.


Its just that for a game which spends as much time in close ups and in conversation as it does, I think the DA2 faces are pretty terrible overall.

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 octobre 2011 - 03:05 .

[Mr.House]

Isolde does not look like any female character in DA2,, also she has no expresions because she has one minute under goddam scene. The fact that you say she looks like every female in the game really makes me question your eyes or your sanity.

[billy the squid]

Increasing the size of the World that they explore is a fine idea, but considering they suffered from issues of time and implementation in DA2 with both the Qunari and the Mage conflict being crammed into such a short game time frame, I remain apprehensive as to how they would actually deal with all those locations. Frankly I would rather they did less and did it properly, than attempt to cover so much that it becomes superficial filler.

The art style I still hate it, and some characters look like they've been hit in the face with a shovel, but well see what happens later, I anticipate quite a wait before any further news.

The combat issues, interesting, I approve of tactical movement. Movement within DA2 was improved, but ultimately undone with disastrous encounter design aswell as some dubious decisions on talents, animations and very nebulous reasoning behind the shift in attribute design ie warriors need strength and constitution, everything else is rendered moot.

Generally, it sounds okay, but after DA2 I remain sceptical, well see what happens at a later date, a bit too early for yay or nay one way or the other.

[Mr.House]

billy the squid wrote...

Increasing the size of the World that they explore is a fine idea, but considering they suffered from issues of time and implementation in DA2 with both the Qunari and the Mage conflict being crammed into such a short game time frame, I remain apprehensive as to how they would actually deal with all those locations. Frankly I would rather they did less and did it properly, than attempt to cover so much that it becomes superficial filler.

The art style I still hate it, and some characters look like they've been hit in the face with a shovel, but well see what happens later, I anticipate quite a wait before any further news.

The combat issues, interesting, I approve of tactical movement. Movement within DA2 was improved, but ultimately undone with disastrous encounter design aswell as some dubious decisions on talents, animations and very nebulous reasoning behind the shift in attribute design ie warriors need strength and constitution, everything else is rendered moot.

Generally, it sounds okay, but after DA2 I remain sceptical, well see what happens at a later date, a bit too early for yay or nay one way or the other.

That has not changed since DAO.

[alex90c]

Mr.House wrote...

Isolde does not look like any female character in DA2,, also she has no expresions because she has one minute under goddam scene. The fact that you say she looks like every female in the game really makes me question your eyes or your sanity.

Actually after paying a bit of attention I can kind of see where Brockololly is coming from; Isolde looks pretty generic to me there, whereas in DA:O her face was more distinctive and ... and ... iconic!

Oh I went there.

[Mr.House]

alex90c wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Isolde does not look like any female character in DA2,, also she has no expresions because she has one minute under goddam scene. The fact that you say she looks like every female in the game really makes me question your eyes or your sanity.

Actually after paying a bit of attention I can kind of see where Brockololly is coming from; Isolde looks pretty generic to me there, whereas in DA:O her face was more distinctive and ... and ... iconic!

Oh I went there.

Shall I remind everyone that in the fade in DAO Leli had two clones? Or that not all the characters in DAO with plastic skin and cheese cheeks all looked diffrent?

Modifié par Mr.House, 23 octobre 2011 - 03:14 .

[alex90c]

Mr.House wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Isolde does not look like any female character in DA2,, also she has no expresions because she has one minute under goddam scene. The fact that you say she looks like every female in the game really makes me question your eyes or your sanity.

Actually after paying a bit of attention I can kind of see where Brockololly is coming from; Isolde looks pretty generic to me there, whereas in DA:O her face was more distinctive and ... and ... iconic!

Oh I went there.

Shall I remind everyone that in the fade in DAO Leli had two clones? Or that not all the characters in DAO with plastic skin and cheese cheeks all looked diffrent?

I'm probably going to be called slow/dense/retarded for saying this, but it took me like four playthroughs to realise that DA:O actually had any clones/very similar looking characters. Then I got DA2, became extremely conscious of recycling and it was only then I really became aware that it even existed in DA:O.

[billy the squid]

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Increasing the size of the World that they explore is a fine idea, but considering they suffered from issues of time and implementation in DA2 with both the Qunari and the Mage conflict being crammed into such a short game time frame, I remain apprehensive as to how they would actually deal with all those locations. Frankly I would rather they did less and did it properly, than attempt to cover so much that it becomes superficial filler.

The art style I still hate it, and some characters look like they've been hit in the face with a shovel, but well see what happens later, I anticipate quite a wait before any further news.

The combat issues, interesting, I approve of tactical movement. Movement within DA2 was improved, but ultimately undone with disastrous encounter design aswell as some dubious decisions on talents, animations and very nebulous reasoning behind the shift in attribute design ie warriors need strength and constitution, everything else is rendered moot.

Generally, it sounds okay, but after DA2 I remain sceptical, well see what happens at a later date, a bit too early for yay or nay one way or the other.

That has not changed since DAO.

Then I think you should alert the developers, they seem to be under the impression that they shifted to a more stylised concept instead of generic art style in DaO. As to the faces, I don't see how Alistair looks like he did in DAO, other than being vaguely similar.

[Mr.House]

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Increasing the size of the World that they explore is a fine idea, but considering they suffered from issues of time and implementation in DA2 with both the Qunari and the Mage conflict being crammed into such a short game time frame, I remain apprehensive as to how they would actually deal with all those locations. Frankly I would rather they did less and did it properly, than attempt to cover so much that it becomes superficial filler.

The art style I still hate it, and some characters look like they've been hit in the face with a shovel, but well see what happens later, I anticipate quite a wait before any further news.

The combat issues, interesting, I approve of tactical movement. Movement within DA2 was improved, but ultimately undone with disastrous encounter design aswell as some dubious decisions on talents, animations and very nebulous reasoning behind the shift in attribute design ie warriors need strength and constitution, everything else is rendered moot.

Generally, it sounds okay, but after DA2 I remain sceptical, well see what happens at a later date, a bit too early for yay or nay one way or the other.

That has not changed since DAO.

Then I think you should alert the developers, they seem to be under the impression that they shifted to a more stylised concept instead of generic art style in DaO. As to the faces, I don't see how Alistair looks like he did in DAO, other than being vaguely similar.

There's many characters that looked like they where hit with a shovel or in Cammens case, fell off the ugly tree onto an ugly rock and rolled into the ugly river that took him down ugly creek. No one in DA2 comes close to that horror. NOBODY

/Teagans voice

[billy the squid]

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Increasing the size of the World that they explore is a fine idea, but considering they suffered from issues of time and implementation in DA2 with both the Qunari and the Mage conflict being crammed into such a short game time frame, I remain apprehensive as to how they would actually deal with all those locations. Frankly I would rather they did less and did it properly, than attempt to cover so much that it becomes superficial filler.

The art style I still hate it, and some characters look like they've been hit in the face with a shovel, but well see what happens later, I anticipate quite a wait before any further news.

The combat issues, interesting, I approve of tactical movement. Movement within DA2 was improved, but ultimately undone with disastrous encounter design aswell as some dubious decisions on talents, animations and very nebulous reasoning behind the shift in attribute design ie warriors need strength and constitution, everything else is rendered moot.

Generally, it sounds okay, but after DA2 I remain sceptical, well see what happens at a later date, a bit too early for yay or nay one way or the other.

That has not changed since DAO.

Then I think you should alert the developers, they seem to be under the impression that they shifted to a more stylised concept instead of generic art style in DaO. As to the faces, I don't see how Alistair looks like he did in DAO, other than being vaguely similar.

There's many characters that looked like they where hit with a shovel or in Cammens case, fell off the ugly tree onto an ugly rock and rolled into the ugly river that took him down ugly creek. No one in DA2 comes close to that horror. NOBODY

/Teagans voice

Do you want me to start posting pictures of Elven NPCs in DA2? You know the ones which look like they fell down the Grand Canyon onto their face.

As to my point, if central characters, are present in DA2, transfered from DAO, then they should look more than vaguely similar.

Edit: And yes as to faces in DAO there are some very dodgy ones, but compared to the worst DA2 has to offer, wow, some of DA2's would give Freddy Kruger nightmares

Modifié par billy the squid, 23 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Its my personal vendetta with all of DA2's face morph system- it sucks. 

And there's your problem. 

You were determined to hate the changes from the start, while they're hardly as bad as you make them out to be. A number of characters came out looking better than they did in Origins; like Leliana, Taegan, Cullen, Nathaniel, Merrill and Isabela.

The only ones that came out worse to wear (imo) are Zevran, due to overall changes to elves, and Alistair. Even Bodhan and Sandal look better (Sandal especially).

Bringing up Morrigan's morph, where we don't even know if it's her official DA2 look or simply a very rough test morph, does what exactly? If they could take their time making Leliana look better than she did before, they can also do the same for Morri, when they decide to bring her back.

Isolde is recognizable right off the bat and, judging from the screenshots you posted, doesn't look any worse off than she did in DA:O. Certainly no reason to tear your hair out over what's basicaly a 1 minute cameo.

[Mr.House]

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Increasing the size of the World that they explore is a fine idea, but considering they suffered from issues of time and implementation in DA2 with both the Qunari and the Mage conflict being crammed into such a short game time frame, I remain apprehensive as to how they would actually deal with all those locations. Frankly I would rather they did less and did it properly, than attempt to cover so much that it becomes superficial filler.

The art style I still hate it, and some characters look like they've been hit in the face with a shovel, but well see what happens later, I anticipate quite a wait before any further news.

The combat issues, interesting, I approve of tactical movement. Movement within DA2 was improved, but ultimately undone with disastrous encounter design aswell as some dubious decisions on talents, animations and very nebulous reasoning behind the shift in attribute design ie warriors need strength and constitution, everything else is rendered moot.

Generally, it sounds okay, but after DA2 I remain sceptical, well see what happens at a later date, a bit too early for yay or nay one way or the other.

That has not changed since DAO.

Then I think you should alert the developers, they seem to be under the impression that they shifted to a more stylised concept instead of generic art style in DaO. As to the faces, I don't see how Alistair looks like he did in DAO, other than being vaguely similar.

There's many characters that looked like they where hit with a shovel or in Cammens case, fell off the ugly tree onto an ugly rock and rolled into the ugly river that took him down ugly creek. No one in DA2 comes close to that horror. NOBODY

/Teagans voice

Do you want me to start posting pictures of Elven NPCs in DA2? You know the ones which look like they fell down the Grand Canyon onto their face.

As to my point, if central characters, are present in DA2, transfered from DAO, then they should look more than vaguely similar.

Not all DAO characters in DA2 look vaguely similar. Also nothing will ever come close to Cammen, I don't count the pixel elfys in DA2 because you don't talk to them. You talk to Cammen and have to look at him right in the eye and cry inside because this guy is so dam ugly.

[Mr.House]

Master Shiori wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Its my personal vendetta with all of DA2's face morph system- it sucks. 

And there's your problem. 

You were determined to hate the changes from the start, while they're hardly as bad as you make them out to be. A number of characters came out looking better than they did in Origins; like Leliana, Taegan, Cullen, Nathaniel, Merrill and Isabela.

The only ones that came out worse to wear (imo) are Zevran, due to overall changes to elves, and Alistair. Even Bodhan and Sandal look better (Sandal especially).

Bringing up Morrigan's morph, where we don't even know if it's her official DA2 look or simply a very rough test morph, does what exactly? If they could take their time making Leliana look better than she did before, they can also do the same for Morri, when they decide to bring her back.

Isolde is recognizable right off the bat and, judging from the screenshots you posted, doesn't look any worse off than she did in DA:O. Certainly no reason to tear your hair out over what's basicaly a 1 minute cameo.

But Shiori, it's DA2 so it sucks be default

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

1) Encounters versus Fights. That's win. The lack of real consequence for most of Hawke's actions was the biggest bummer in DA2. I like the idea that there could be "verbal combat" that has an impact later in the game. The more Landsmeet sorts of encounters, the better.

2) I like the scope of the world. I think it'll be along the lines of each capital city is a quest hub with a couple smaller locations scattered around each hub. Kind of like the quests in DAO... except spread across a chunk of Thedas. Hopefully the difference in art in each region will really bring the sense of distance home.

3) Customization. Seems to be a relatively good happy medium. It's still fairly lame to think I'll have to spend time gearing up my companions, but at least this way they won't look like they were raised by wild clowns during the cut scenes. I was hoping that I would have more choice as the how companion gear gained stats as the character leveled, rather than having to review lists of crap to discover what's useful and what's useless. I can live with what they showed, though.

4) No trash loot. He didn't say that, but I can sure hope for it.

[Mr.House]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

1) Encounters versus Fights. That's win. The lack of real consequence for most of Hawke's actions was the biggest bummer in DA2. I like the idea that there could be "verbal combat" that has an impact later in the game. The more Landsmeet sorts of encounters, the better.

2) I like the scope of the world. I think it'll be along the lines of each capital city is a quest hub with a couple smaller locations scattered around each hub. Kind of like the quests in DAO... except spread across a chunk of Thedas. Hopefully the difference in art in each region will really bring the sense of distance home.

3) Customization. Seems to be a relatively good happy medium. It's still fairly lame to think I'll have to spend time gearing up my companions, but at least this way they won't look like they were raised by wild clowns during the cut scenes. I was hoping that I would have more choice as the how companion gear gained stats as the character leveled, rather than having to review lists of crap to discover what's useful and what's useless. I can live with what they showed, though.

4) No trash loot. He didn't say that, but I can sure hope for it.

There will no doubt be trash loot in DA3, it's a staple.

[jlb524]

Poor Cammen.

[alex90c]

cammen says hi

[billy the squid]

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Increasing the size of the World that they explore is a fine idea, but considering they suffered from issues of time and implementation in DA2 with both the Qunari and the Mage conflict being crammed into such a short game time frame, I remain apprehensive as to how they would actually deal with all those locations. Frankly I would rather they did less and did it properly, than attempt to cover so much that it becomes superficial filler.

The art style I still hate it, and some characters look like they've been hit in the face with a shovel, but well see what happens later, I anticipate quite a wait before any further news.

The combat issues, interesting, I approve of tactical movement. Movement within DA2 was improved, but ultimately undone with disastrous encounter design aswell as some dubious decisions on talents, animations and very nebulous reasoning behind the shift in attribute design ie warriors need strength and constitution, everything else is rendered moot.

Generally, it sounds okay, but after DA2 I remain sceptical, well see what happens at a later date, a bit too early for yay or nay one way or the other.

That has not changed since DAO.

Then I think you should alert the developers, they seem to be under the impression that they shifted to a more stylised concept instead of generic art style in DaO. As to the faces, I don't see how Alistair looks like he did in DAO, other than being vaguely similar.

There's many characters that looked like they where hit with a shovel or in Cammens case, fell off the ugly tree onto an ugly rock and rolled into the ugly river that took him down ugly creek. No one in DA2 comes close to that horror. NOBODY

/Teagans voice

Do you want me to start posting pictures of Elven NPCs in DA2? You know the ones which look like they fell down the Grand Canyon onto their face.

As to my point, if central characters, are present in DA2, transfered from DAO, then they should look more than vaguely similar.

Not all DAO characters in DA2 look vaguely similar. Also nothing will ever come close to Cammen, I don't count the pixel elfys in DA2 because you don't talk to them. You talk to Cammen and have to look at him right in the eye and cry inside because this guy is so dam ugly.

I don't have to talk to Cammen either, that is a cop out argument.

Modifié par billy the squid, 23 octobre 2011 - 03:38 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Mr.House wrote...

There will no doubt be trash loot in DA3, it's a staple.

Tropes exist to be removed!  Hopefully, they stick to adding flavor text to the environment, like in MotA, rather than shoe horning it into useless items in the game world.