329 réponses à ce sujet

[The dead fish]

Bayz wrote...

Where do you mix Qunari in a talk of Equality and Egalitarism without a NOT in the front?

Sorry didn"t understand your question.

[Bayz]

esper wrote...

I think they use slaves for that. I was thinking more in line with the occiosnall Leandra character appearing and eloping with someone who is not good enough.
But seriosuly, how inbred do you guys think all the nobles in the different countries are. I am willing to bet that is marrying your cousion or second cousin is quite common in Thedas' more powerfull houses.

Slaves too, but they break too soon. Besides if you burn all your slaves who will make you a sandwitch?

If they have powerful magical mojo in their blood it burns cooler and may help for lasting effects. Or may make it too disfunctional you never know with evil blood magic.

Well My guess is that they are very inbred, mainly with the royal house. Then they are the bastards that from time to time end up in the throne and bring a bit of fresh air. But mainly very inbred.

Sylvianus wrote...

Bayz wrote...

Where do
you mix Qunari in a talk of Equality and Egalitarism without a NOT in
the front?

Sorry didn"t understand your question.

I was asking how do you mix the Qunari in a talk about Equality and Egalitarism as they seem quite opposed to said concepts.

Modifié par Bayz, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:24 .

[The dead fish]

Bayz wrote...

I was asking how do you mix the Qunari in a talk about Equality and Egalitarism as they seem quite opposed to said concepts.

The point that was defended by the pro-Qunari, and many people was that Qunari advocated strict equality between everyone. Something that was seen as positive, and an example of better society than that of humans.

But actually that's rather egalitarism since, equality is based despite the differences, and based on an intellectual freedom to inform itself, and to think itself, and stand out from others with the same opportunities..

Egalitarism comes at the expense of freedom, people are conditioned by a desire higher  that force them to be all alike, they can't differentiate themselves from others. Prohibition of intellectual freedom, the same  social situation. etc

So for me, that's not really a good point for the Qunari, when people are talking about " equality " in their society.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:39 .

[Bayz]

They never seemed to be pushing anything but a caste system to me.

[The dead fish]

Bayz wrote...

They never seemed to be pushing anything but a caste system to me.

People are conditioned, they can't think for themself, and they can not do what they want, individualism is condemned. Their equality is based on obedience to the Qun.

[Bayz]

Thing is that I don't see equality at all in their society. I mean it is basically a guy with glasses and a machine saying "you are merchant, you are soldier, you are..." and the Arishok sitting in their thrones eating Cornish Pastries so far as I know...

I fail to see the "they are all equal" part, I guess they mean equally screwed but still the Arishok seem to be having a good time...

I mean I even saw one guy once saying they were "ideal communist" or some crap like that

Modifié par Bayz, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:57 .

[The dead fish]

Bayz wrote...
Thing is that I don't see equality at all in their society. I mean it is basically a guy with glasses and a machine saying "you are merchant, you are soldier, you are..." and the Arishok sitting in their thrones eating Cornish Pastries so far as I know...I fail to see the "they are all equal" part, I guess they mean equally screwed but still the Arishok seem to be having a good time...

I mean I even saw one guy once saying they were "ideal communist" or some crap like that

Lol, actually, I totally agree with you. But technically they do not distinguish humans, elves and dwarves and Kossith, they are all Qunary as long as they obey all wisely. No one is more important than the other. So it is a form ... of equality ?

The good point is that elves are better  treated in the qunary society than with humans.

An elf Qunari is regarded with respect as the others. No prejudice.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:00 .

[Bayz]

Sylvianus wrote...

Lol, actually, I totally agree with you. But technically they not distinguish humans, elves and dwarves and Kossith, they are all Qunary as long as they obey all wisely. No one is more important than the other. So it is a form ... of equality ?

So I'm preaching a convert, but still. It seems to me that the Arishok still holds a huge importance within Qunari society to say "all of them are equal". It should be more of "at the bottom of the Pyramid, all of them are equal. well except the soldiers who are more than the women and merchants and..." sorry, still a caste system for me. May be myopia but I can't think of it otherwise...

Sylvianus wrote...
The good point is that elves are better  treated in the qunary society than with humans.

An elf Qunari is regarded with respect as the others. No
prejudice.

Elves in human societies are second class citizens with the possibility of social promotion, yes not to be nobles unless they marry a noble (not that many human peasants are given the same choice as Loghain mind you), but still they can be maidens in noble houses and stuff like that. Qunari deny the very concept of social promotion, if I see an Elf becoming an Arishok I will agree with the Qunari supporters that the Qunari treat elves better, until then I do honestly believe that is BS.

Modifié par Bayz, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:06 .

[The dead fish]

Bayz wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Lol, actually, I totally agree with you. But technically they not distinguish humans, elves and dwarves and Kossith, they are all Qunary as long as they obey all wisely. No one is more important than the other. So it is a form ... of equality ?

So I'm preaching a convert, but still. It seems to me that the Arishok still holds a huge importance within Qunari society to say "all of them are equal". It should be more of "at the bottom of the Pyramid, all of them are equal. well except the soldiers who are more than the women and merchants and..." sorry, still a caste system for me. May be myopia but I can't think of it otherwise...

Sylvianus wrote...
The good point is that elves are better  treated in the qunary society than with humans.

An elf Qunari is regarded with respect as the others. No
prejudice.

Elves in human societies are second class citizens with the possibility of social promotion, yes not to be nobles unless they marry a noble (not that many human peasants are given the same choice as Loghain mind you), but still they can be maidens in noble houses and stuff like that. Qunari deny the very concept of social promotion, if I see an Elf becoming an Arishok I will agree with the Qunari supporters that the Qunari treat elves better, until then I do honestly believe that is BS.

Indeed you are preaching a convert.

I can't answer to you, because that is not my of view at all.

Ps : For  women, it's seems according to David Gaider, that they could be soldiers too apparently. What Sten said, maybe, we didn't understand. There will be more explanations in the future.

Qunari deny the very concept of social promotion

Absolutely. That's why I couldn't live at all among them. No desire, you can't even make love with who you want. XD

[The dead fish]

Qunari do have promotions. The Arishok wasn't raised to be an
Arishok from birth. He was raised as a warrior and made his way up the
ranks.

I thought each qunari had its role, where did you get that the Arishok was raised ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:17 .

[Bayz]

Filament wrote...

Qunari do have promotions. The Arishok wasn't raised to be an Arishok from birth. He was raised as a warrior and made his way up the ranks.

Did have the impression of the opposite, apologies. Point stands though. So only Warrior Caste members can get to the Arishok? How many Elves and humans are part of the Ariqun? And part of the Arishok?

Keeping in mind that female are excluded from the Warrior Caste, how could a female get to the Ranks of the Arishok if the Qunari don't have a concept of marriage? In Ferelden and Orlais we do know that woman can get into power positions.

What about the lower castes such as merchants etc? Teyrn Loghain was a peasant yet he made his way up to the top.

Sylvianus wrote...


Ps : For  women, it's seems
according to David Gaider, that they could be soldiers too apparently.
What Sten said, maybe, we didn't understand. There will be more
explanations in the future.

Repeat with meee: Reeetcoon Retcooon!!

Modifié par Bayz, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:19 .

[blothulfur]

Where does this fallacy that our roles are assigned to us arbitrarily originate? Our children are raised free of the bias, expectations and favouritism of familial structures for a reason: So that under the careful and dispassionate eyes of the Tamassran they may be nurtured, watched, taught and tested over many years so that their natural ability and ambition are made apparent and their roles stand ready for them upon adulthood.

One cannot argue that this is preferable to the roles assigned to the vast majority of the bas, that of cattle bound to serve their feudal masters as all their antecedants have and their descendants will. All of course decided by the inbred nature of their blood, not ability or ambition. Under the Qun there is freedom to excel, unlike in the feudal slave empires.

Modifié par blothulfur, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:25 .

[The dead fish]

Bayz wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
Ps : For  women, it's seems according to David Gaider, that they could be soldiers too apparently.
What Sten said, maybe, we didn't understand. There will be more explanations in the future.

Repeat with meee: Reeetcoon Retcooon!!

Well, it wouldn't be the first time. XD

[Bayz]

blothulfur wrote...

Where does this fallacy that our roles
are assigned to us arbitrarily originate? Our children are raised free
of the bias, expectations and favouritism of familial structures for a
reason: So that under the careful and dispassionate eyes of the
Tamassran they may be nurtured, watched, taught and tested over many
years so that their natural ability and ambition are made apparent and
their roles stand ready for them upon adulthood.

One cannot argue
that this is preferable to the roles assigned to the vast majority of
the bas, that of cattle bound to serve their feudal masters as all their
antecedants have and their descendants will. All of course decided by
the inbred nature of their blood, not ability or ambition. Under the Qun
there is freedom to excel, unlike in the feudal slave empires.

Yeah...that's why there are no Tal-Vashoth getting the hell out of Par Vollen, right?

Modifié par Bayz, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:26 .

[Herr Uhl]

Bayz wrote...

Did have the impression of the opposite, apologies. Point stands though. So only Warrior Caste members can get to the Arishok? How many Elves and humans are part of the Ariqun? And part of the Arishok?

Keeping in mind that female are excluded from the Warrior Caste, how could a female get to the Ranks of the Arishok if the Qunari don't have a concept of marriage? In Ferelden and Orlais we do know that woman can get into power positions.

What about the lower castes such as merchants etc? Teyrn Loghain was a peasant yet he made his way up to the top.

Women can become Ariqun or Arigena. And it isn't a caste system.

Sylvianus wrote...


Ps : For  women, it's seems
according to David Gaider, that they could be soldiers too apparently.
What Sten said, maybe, we didn't understand. There will be more
explanations in the future.

Repeat with meee: Reeetcoon Retcooon!!

I would't call Tallis a soldier.

[blothulfur]

The Vashoth are free to leave the heartlands if they present no danger to the mind, body and soul of the Qun for we do not suffer them to live amongst us.

[Bayz]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Women can become Ariqun or Arigena. And it isn't a caste system.

Mary Kirby wrote...
There are promotions. No Arishok has ever taken up the job at the age of 12. Your "role" is "military." or "priesthood." Not, "Second assistant undergardener."

Let's call it a lite caste system then...You can be part of the Warrior Caste which can become the political leaders or the Cleric caste which could become religious leaders...or the lower caste which could be merchant, etc...

But not switch between them, still fail to see how it is not.

[The dead fish]

Filament wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Qunari do have promotions. The Arishok wasn't raised to be an
Arishok from birth. He was raised as a warrior and made his way up the
ranks.

I thought each qunari had its role, where did you get that the Arishok was raised ?

Dev quote. (she also mentions elsewhere that people can be moved to a different role if they show more aptitude there, with some restrictions re: gender, though this may only be before they've been officially assigned a role)

Mhh, thank you.

[The dead fish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Bayz wrote...

Did have the impression of the opposite, apologies. Point stands though. So only Warrior Caste members can get to the Arishok? How many Elves and humans are part of the Ariqun? And part of the Arishok?

Keeping in mind that female are excluded from the Warrior Caste, how could a female get to the Ranks of the Arishok if the Qunari don't have a concept of marriage? In Ferelden and Orlais we do know that woman can get into power positions.

What about the lower castes such as merchants etc? Teyrn Loghain was a peasant yet he made his way up to the top.

Women can become Ariqun or Arigena. And it isn't a caste system.

Sylvianus wrote...


Ps : For  women, it's seems
according to David Gaider, that they could be soldiers too apparently.
What Sten said, maybe, we didn't understand. There will be more
explanations in the future.

Repeat with meee: Reeetcoon Retcooon!!

I would't call Tallis a soldier.

But he didn't talk about Tallis but women in general after that some said to him,  it seemed to them a mistake or a retcon.

[Herr Uhl]

Bayz wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Women can become Ariqun or Arigena. And it isn't a caste system.

Mary Kirby wrote...
There are promotions. No Arishok has ever taken up the job at the age of 12. Your "role" is "military." or "priesthood." Not, "Second assistant undergardener."

Let's call it a lite caste system then...You can be part of the Warrior Caste which can become the political leaders or the Cleric caste which could become religious leaders...or the lower caste which could be merchant, etc...

But not switch between them, still fail to see how it is not.

You were talking in terms of inheriting a caste. And all the three are political leaders.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:33 .

[blothulfur]

No. All three of the triumvirate are the political leaders of the Qunari, the Arishok representing the body and the antaam, the Ariqun representing the soul and the implementation of Kosluns teachings while the Arigena brings us the inventiveness and inspiration of the mind, craftsmen and such.

Modifié par blothulfur, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:35 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sylvianus wrote...

But he didn't talk about Tallis but women in general after that some said to him,  it seemed to them a mistake or a retcon.

There are women that are part of the military branch, but they're hardly soldiers. They do things like logistics and quartermastering.

[The dead fish]

blothulfur wrote...

The Vashoth are free to leave the heartlands if they present no danger to the mind, body and soul of the Qun for we do not suffer them to live amongst us.

That's not  what it seemed in DA2. the Qunari have special units to hunt down Vashoth outside their land. The Tal Vashoth weren't a danger in DA2. The Arishok simply couldn't stand they were doing business as mercenaries, so they do what they want.