329 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

Pretty please, would you tell me what David Gaider said about Tallis and her role in society - I just went off looking for the reference and I can't find it.

[KJandrew]

Gervaise wrote...

Pretty please, would you tell me what David Gaider said about Tallis and her role in society - I just went off looking for the reference and I can't find it.

I think it was that Talis' role doesn't fall under the Qunari definition of fighting as she's skulking in the shadows rather than on the frontlines. Also she is under the command of the Ariqun, making her technically part priest.

[TEWR]

Gervaise wrote...

Pretty please, would you tell me what David Gaider said about Tallis and her role in society - I just went off looking for the reference and I can't find it.

Tallis is among the Ben-Hassrath, who fall under the jurisdiction of the Ariqun which makes them priests in the eyes of the Qunari.

While a soldier in the Antaam (the army of the Qunari) lives by their blade and fights on the frontlines, the Ben-Hassrath do not live by their blade nor fight on the front lines so they are not considered to be fighters. Think of them as Qunari operatives for specific missions. They fight when they need to, but they do not live only to fight.

For the Qunari, it's like this:

Soldier: Lives only to fight and command troops
Ben-Hassrath: Fights when needed, but primary goal is to protect the interests of the Qunari.

I believe that's how it goes. They define "fight" and "do battle" and the like in very different, abnormal, and strange ways.

[TheRevanchist]

KJandrew wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, Petrice was a moron who did nothing to help anything.

Not at all.  She actually realized while the rest of the morons of the city didn't that the qunari were a major threat to the city and the chantry.   She actually was trying to do something about the situation, something her superior is accused of doing nothing through the conflict.

Wait you mean the guys who sat around peacefully for several years until she pushed them beyond breaking point where a threat to the city that she was justified to attack?

You mean the Arishok who sat there growing more and more disgusted by our society because of how "corrupt" and "greedy" and "chaotic" our way of life is? "I cannot leave without the relic, and I cannot stay and remain blind to the corruption of this city." Meaning he completely hates our way of life anyway...Petrice has overall little impact on his opinion of this. It was only a matter of time before he came to the same conclusion. the death of Saemus only sped up the process.

[TEWR]

kylecouch wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, Petrice was a moron who did nothing to help anything.

Not at all.  She actually realized while the rest of the morons of the city didn't that the qunari were a major threat to the city and the chantry.   She actually was trying to do something about the situation, something her superior is accused of doing nothing through the conflict.

Wait you mean the guys who sat around peacefully for several years until she pushed them beyond breaking point where a threat to the city that she was justified to attack?

You mean the Arishok who sat there growing more and more disgusted by our society because of how "corrupt" and "greedy" and "chaotic" our way of life is? "I cannot leave without the relic, and I cannot stay and remain blind to the corruption of this city." Meaning he completely hates our way of life anyway...Petrice has overall little impact on his opinion of this. It was only a matter of time before he came to the same conclusion. the death of Saemus only sped up the process.

Petrice was the cause of much of his hate for the city, because the corruption and chaos was due in large part to her. The Chantry murdered Saemus, stole the Saar-Qamek (thinking it was Gaatlok) so as to incite rebellion against the Qunari, and many other things. All of his hatred for the city can be drawn back to Petrice. He may have disliked where he landed when he first landed in Kirkwall, but he didn't despise the place until Petrice and her fanatics made things worse because they hated the Qunari for one reason. Existing.

In four years, I have made no threat to this city and fanatics have lined up to hate us simply because we exist. --- The Arishok

[blothulfur]

Young men born of weak fathers often find comfort in certainty and brotherhood, thus we have found when converting others. To offer such things to the very blood of your enemy is a wise and peaceful method of infiltrating their ranks. Watch, wait, plan and win the battle before it is waged as Koslun himself would say.

Modifié par blothulfur, 23 octobre 2011 - 09:46 .

[Beerfish]

Xilizhra wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, Petrice was a moron who did nothing to help anything.

Not at all.  She actually realized while the rest of the morons of the city didn't that the qunari were a major threat to the city and the chantry.   She actually was trying to do something about the situation, something her superior is accused of doing nothing through the conflict.

Well... really, the qunari wouldn't have been a problem if she hadn't been doing things that didn't really hurt them, only pissed them off. Maybe the gaatlok theft plan was a decent one, but most of her other ones were pretty worthless.

We will have to agree to disagree that the Qunari wouldn't have been a problem without Petrice's doings.

[TEWR]

Beerfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, Petrice was a moron who did nothing to help anything.

Not at all.  She actually realized while the rest of the morons of the city didn't that the qunari were a major threat to the city and the chantry.   She actually was trying to do something about the situation, something her superior is accused of doing nothing through the conflict.

Well... really, the qunari wouldn't have been a problem if she hadn't been doing things that didn't really hurt them, only pissed them off. Maybe the gaatlok theft plan was a decent one, but most of her other ones were pretty worthless.

We will have to agree to disagree that the Qunari wouldn't have been a problem without Petrice's doings.

He says multiple times that he wasn't equipped to invade or indoctrinate the city, and the only reason why he was so successful when he did assault the city was because it was a sneak attack.

[Beerfish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



Petrice was the cause of much of his hate for the city, because the corruption and chaos was due in large part to her. The Chantry murdered Saemus, stole the Saar-Qamek (thinking it was Gaatlok) so as to incite rebellion against the Qunari, and many other things. All of his hatred for the city can be drawn back to Petrice. He may have disliked where he landed when he first landed in Kirkwall, but he didn't despise the place until Petrice and her fanatics made things worse because they hated the Qunari for one reason. Existing.

In four years, I have made no threat to this city and fanatics have lined up to hate us simply because we exist. --- The Arishok

Nonsense, the arishok is about how bad the city was far before petrice got to the final point of her schemes and as aveline pointed out they had been planning the assualt for some time.  Also his solution to kill half the city and hold the other half hostage while murdering the viscount, after he had taken the law into his own hands and killed petrice is pretty telling.

Basically the arishok was an incompetant boob that screwed up pretty well everything he put his hand to.

[Beerfish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...




He says multiple times that he wasn't equipped to invade or indoctrinate the city, and the only reason why he was so successful when he did assault the city was because it was a sneak attack.

And aveline says that the attack was well planed and thought out well in advance.  And anyone that actually believes a thing coming out of the arishoks lips is very naive.  The qunari in these games have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy at just about every turn.

[KJandrew]

Beerfish wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...




He says multiple times that he wasn't equipped to invade or indoctrinate the city, and the only reason why he was so successful when he did assault the city was because it was a sneak attack.

And aveline says that the attack was well planed and thought out well in advance.  And anyone that actually believes a thing coming out of the arishoks lips is very naive.  The qunari in these games have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy at just about every turn.

The Arishok is a general and has been fighting for the majority of his life. Even though he didn't arrive with the intention to invade, coming up with a plan to pass the time comes like second nature that kind of person

[TEWR]

Beerfish wrote...

And aveline says that the attack was well planed and thought out well in advance.  And anyone that actually believes a thing coming out of the arishoks lips is very naive.  The qunari in these games have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy at just about every turn.

Considering the Qunari had been moving throughout the city for various reasons that any citizen would have to, it wouldn't be hard to figure out strategies to use for planning an invasion.

I never said that he wouldn't invade. Just that he wasn't planning on invading and conquering Kirkwall then. If anything, he had been planning for when he returned to Par Vollen and for when the Qunari do invade. Kirkwall is a very strategic defense outpost, so no doubt he was planning for when the Qunari eventually take Kirkwall. Not with his current retinue of forces, but with the forces in the future.

Nonsense, the arishok is about how bad the city was far before petrice got to the final point of her schemes and as aveline pointed out they had been planning the assualt for some time.  Also his solution to kill half the city and hold the other half hostage while murdering the viscount, after he had taken the law into his own hands and killed petrice is pretty telling.

Basically the arishok was an incompetant boob that screwed up pretty well everything he put his hand to.

The Arishok doesn't start talking about how much he loathes the city is until Shepherding Wolves, which is when Petrice began her movements against the Qunari.

Prior to that, he just disliked the city. And honestly, I would too if I was stuck in a compound on the Docks that smell like something awful and I have to deal with people hating me simply for being who I am.

[Xilizhra]

And honestly, I would too if I was stuck in a compound on the Docks that smell like something awful and I have to deal with people hating me simply for being who I am.

Which is irritating, because there are plenty of good reasons to hate the qunari, but Petrice and company picked the only one I can't sympathize with.

[The dead fish]

Again, Petrice is not the real problem. The arishok had more and more a growing temptation to restore order in this chaotic city and he says it, several times. Petrice has only accelerated things, there would be war with or without her. I have no doubt about it.

The Arishok won't go away until he finds the relic, he doesn't care the will of Kirkwall's authorities, its people and the viscount. A state within a state. And a state within a state has always given war. And the most important is that Qunari CAN'T admit why they couldn't leave, because this secret must be not revealed to humans. And so, Kirkwall couldn't understand why the Qunari wouldn't leave ( since they don't have logic answers for them ), so more and more tension.

On the other side, the Kirkwall's authorities get upset, worried. The tension was evident after 3 years. Several NPC in Kirkwall say it in the beginning of act 2 and Petrice HAS NOT YET started to attack qunari.

And sorry, but a plan against a city that welcomed you and say this is simply a hobby, is very naive, or blindness, as you want. An attack planned has always motivations and reasons behind, always.

No, the qunari planned their attack in case of the authorities would push them out of their city peacefully or not.

 So we see that the authorities can not even exercise their Sovereignty without expecting retaliation and it is already a slippery slope to war.

The Qunari are condemned to attack Kirkwall, since they can't leave Kirkwall. How long do you think people would have waited without whining and after more ?

More and more hostility that would have forced either Qunari or authorities to strike first.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 23 octobre 2011 - 10:46 .

[PantheraOnca]

Sylvianus wrote...

Again, Petrice is not the real problem. The arishok had more and more a growing temptation to restore order in this chaotic city and he says it, several times. Petrice has only accelerated things, there would be war with or without her. I have no doubt about it.

The Arishok won't go away until he finds the relic, he doesn't care the will of Kirkwall's authorities, its people and the viscount. A state within a state. And a state within a state has always given war. And the most important is that Qunari CAN'T admit why they couldn't leave, because this secret must be not revealed to humans. And so, Kirkwall couldn't understand why the Qunari wouldn't leave ( since they don't have logic answers for them ), so more and more tension.

On the other side, the Kirkwall's authorities get upset, worried. The tension was evident after 3 years. Several NPC in Kirkwall say it in the beginning of act 2 and Petrice HAS NOT YET started to attack qunari.

And sorry, but a plan against a city that welcomed you and say this is simply a hobby, is very naive, or blindness, as you want. An attack planned has always motivations and reasons behind, always.

No, the qunari planned their attack in case of the authorities would push them out of their city peacefully or not.

While the Arishok states that Kirkwall disgusts him, he never has a legitimate reason to attack until those who are qunari are killed.

Man, I'm contantly casing out place's viability as a zombie apocalypse holdout. Does that mean I'm actually going to participate in a zombie apocalypse? I bet if you ask anyone currently in the military what they would do if they were stuck in the middle of enemy territory during a ceasefire one of the first things they would do is plan for what happens when #$#% hits the fan and a firefight breaks out.

As you say, a state within a state always leads to conflict, why wouldn't the Arishok think that as well and be prepared for it? They're called contingency plans.

[General User]

Sister Petrice didn't start the fire, but she did throw gasoline on it.  Gallons and gallons and gallons of gasoline.

[The dead fish]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Again, Petrice is not the real problem. The arishok had more and more a growing temptation to restore order in this chaotic city and he says it, several times. Petrice has only accelerated things, there would be war with or without her. I have no doubt about it.

The Arishok won't go away until he finds the relic, he doesn't care the will of Kirkwall's authorities, its people and the viscount. A state within a state. And a state within a state has always given war. And the most important is that Qunari CAN'T admit why they couldn't leave, because this secret must be not revealed to humans. And so, Kirkwall couldn't understand why the Qunari wouldn't leave ( since they don't have logic answers for them ), so more and more tension.

On the other side, the Kirkwall's authorities get upset, worried. The tension was evident after 3 years. Several NPC in Kirkwall say it in the beginning of act 2 and Petrice HAS NOT YET started to attack qunari.

And sorry, but a plan against a city that welcomed you and say this is simply a hobby, is very naive, or blindness, as you want. An attack planned has always motivations and reasons behind, always.

No, the qunari planned their attack in case of the authorities would push them out of their city peacefully or not.

While the Arishok states that Kirkwall disgusts him, he never has a legitimate reason to attack until those who are qunari are killed.

Man, I'm contantly casing out place's viability as a zombie apocalypse holdout. Does that mean I'm actually going to participate in a zombie apocalypse? I bet if you ask anyone currently in the military what they would do if they were stuck in the middle of enemy territory during a ceasefire one of the first things they would do is plan for what happens when #$#% hits the fan and a firefight breaks out.

As you say, a state within a state always leads to conflict, why wouldn't the Arishok think that as well and be prepared for it? They're called contingency plans.

And I don't blame the Qunari, on the contrary, it's clever, those who are moron are again The viscount, and all those people naive and passive in Kirkwall who think like sheeps and are waiting I don't know. They had no plan against Qunari despite the threat in their state ( I mean for their integrity ), I've never seen so much incomptence in a government.

But, what I meaned is especially, that there would be a war, because the situation is untenable, explosive and even the Qunari who planned this strategy against Kirkwall, have assumed there could be a war, or at least they would be forced to act one day. Because even the sheeps can loose patience.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 23 octobre 2011 - 10:58 .

[Noviere]

I don't think they paint the Qunari in a particularly sympathetic light... They are trying to give us a more complete view of them though, and one that isn't so one dimensional.

[jamesp81]

In response to the OP, no I don't think they're doing that. If they are, they're doing a terrible job as almost no one in this community views the Qunari in a mostly positive light. Most people in this community view them as embodying the very worst of what the rest of Thedas has to offer, distilled and amplified. There are just a few too many cases where the Qunari are presented to be mostly bad for me to believe otherwise.

I think the whole thing with Petrice and the zealot mob was just a plot device to show the political situation destabilizing. Viscount Dumar wasn't a total fool like some think, and he was making progress towards resolving the situation. In order to advance the plot, the devs needed a plot element to derail him. Petrice was that element.

[jamesp81]

Beerfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Honestly, Petrice was a moron who did nothing to help anything.

Not at all.  She actually realized while the rest of the morons of the city didn't that the qunari were a major threat to the city and the chantry.   She actually was trying to do something about the situation, something her superior is accused of doing nothing through the conflict.

Well... really, the qunari wouldn't have been a problem if she hadn't been doing things that didn't really hurt them, only pissed them off. Maybe the gaatlok theft plan was a decent one, but most of her other ones were pretty worthless.

We will have to agree to disagree that the Qunari wouldn't have been a problem without Petrice's doings.

They definitely would've been a problem.

Or did we forget about Sten's words in DAO, where he openly states the Qunari intend to break the peace treaty they signed with thedas and conquer the continent?  They're already shown to be a people that don't deal in good faith with their neighbors.  In that light, I don't see why I should believe a blessed damned thing he says during the time he's in Kirkwall.

The son of a **** isn't mentally stable, either.  If hanging out in his compound exposes him to much 'corruption' and 'greed' that it drives him to violence, he's nothing more than a mad dog who needs to be put down.

[jamesp81]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

And aveline says that the attack was well planed and thought out well in advance.  And anyone that actually believes a thing coming out of the arishoks lips is very naive.  The qunari in these games have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy at just about every turn.

Considering the Qunari had been moving throughout the city for various reasons that any citizen would have to, it wouldn't be hard to figure out strategies to use for planning an invasion.

I never said that he wouldn't invade. Just that he wasn't planning on invading and conquering Kirkwall then. If anything, he had been planning for when he returned to Par Vollen and for when the Qunari do invade. Kirkwall is a very strategic defense outpost, so no doubt he was planning for when the Qunari eventually take Kirkwall. Not with his current retinue of forces, but with the forces in the future.

Nonsense, the arishok is about how bad the city was far before petrice got to the final point of her schemes and as aveline pointed out they had been planning the assualt for some time.  Also his solution to kill half the city and hold the other half hostage while murdering the viscount, after he had taken the law into his own hands and killed petrice is pretty telling.

Basically the arishok was an incompetant boob that screwed up pretty well everything he put his hand to.

The Arishok doesn't start talking about how much he loathes the city is until Shepherding Wolves, which is when Petrice began her movements against the Qunari.

Prior to that, he just disliked the city. And honestly, I would too if I was stuck in a compound on the Docks that smell like something awful and I have to deal with people hating me simply for being who I am.

Maybe if who he was wasn't the leader of an imperialist nation that has an official policy of conquering its neighbors, people might not take so unkindly to him.

[TEWR]

jamesp81 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

And aveline says that the attack was well planed and thought out well in advance.  And anyone that actually believes a thing coming out of the arishoks lips is very naive.  The qunari in these games have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy at just about every turn.

Considering the Qunari had been moving throughout the city for various reasons that any citizen would have to, it wouldn't be hard to figure out strategies to use for planning an invasion.

I never said that he wouldn't invade. Just that he wasn't planning on invading and conquering Kirkwall then. If anything, he had been planning for when he returned to Par Vollen and for when the Qunari do invade. Kirkwall is a very strategic defense outpost, so no doubt he was planning for when the Qunari eventually take Kirkwall. Not with his current retinue of forces, but with the forces in the future.

Nonsense, the arishok is about how bad the city was far before petrice got to the final point of her schemes and as aveline pointed out they had been planning the assualt for some time.  Also his solution to kill half the city and hold the other half hostage while murdering the viscount, after he had taken the law into his own hands and killed petrice is pretty telling.

Basically the arishok was an incompetant boob that screwed up pretty well everything he put his hand to.

The Arishok doesn't start talking about how much he loathes the city is until Shepherding Wolves, which is when Petrice began her movements against the Qunari.

Prior to that, he just disliked the city. And honestly, I would too if I was stuck in a compound on the Docks that smell like something awful and I have to deal with people hating me simply for being who I am.

Maybe if who he was wasn't the leader of an imperialist nation that has an official policy of conquering its neighbors, people might not take so unkindly to him.

Maybe people who say the mages shouldn't be treated badly for things they haven't committed yet also shouldn't treat the Qunari badly for things they haven't committed yet .

I mean, I know it's a given that they'll invade, but people actually hated them for being in Kirkwall not of their own volition and for believing in something that wasn't the Andrastian faith. Petrice's comments are all about how the Qun is heretical.

It's a different way of thinking. Some of it is abhorrent, but that's the way a lot of religions/philosophies are. Personally, I find the Islamic faith to be abhorrent.

[jamesp81]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

And aveline says that the attack was well planed and thought out well in advance.  And anyone that actually believes a thing coming out of the arishoks lips is very naive.  The qunari in these games have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy at just about every turn.

Considering the Qunari had been moving throughout the city for various reasons that any citizen would have to, it wouldn't be hard to figure out strategies to use for planning an invasion.

I never said that he wouldn't invade. Just that he wasn't planning on invading and conquering Kirkwall then. If anything, he had been planning for when he returned to Par Vollen and for when the Qunari do invade. Kirkwall is a very strategic defense outpost, so no doubt he was planning for when the Qunari eventually take Kirkwall. Not with his current retinue of forces, but with the forces in the future.

Nonsense, the arishok is about how bad the city was far before petrice got to the final point of her schemes and as aveline pointed out they had been planning the assualt for some time.  Also his solution to kill half the city and hold the other half hostage while murdering the viscount, after he had taken the law into his own hands and killed petrice is pretty telling.

Basically the arishok was an incompetant boob that screwed up pretty well everything he put his hand to.

The Arishok doesn't start talking about how much he loathes the city is until Shepherding Wolves, which is when Petrice began her movements against the Qunari.

Prior to that, he just disliked the city. And honestly, I would too if I was stuck in a compound on the Docks that smell like something awful and I have to deal with people hating me simply for being who I am.

Maybe if who he was wasn't the leader of an imperialist nation that has an official policy of conquering its neighbors, people might not take so unkindly to him.

Maybe people who say the mages shouldn't be treated badly for things they haven't committed yet also shouldn't treat the Qunari badly for things they haven't committed yet .

I mean, I know it's a given that they'll invade, but people actually hated them for being in Kirkwall not of their own volition and for believing in something that wasn't the Andrastian faith. Petrice's comments are all about how the Qun is heretical.

It's a different way of thinking. Some of it is abhorrent, but that's the way a lot of religions/philosophies are. Personally, I find the Islamic faith to be abhorrent.

Nice try.

The mages don't have a collective policy, followed by all, that includes brainwashing of the entire population and open warfare against their neighbors.  The qunari do.  The comparison is apples and oranges.

[DPSSOC]

jamesp81 wrote...
The son of a **** isn't mentally stable, either.  If hanging out in his compound exposes him to much 'corruption' and 'greed' that it drives him to violence, he's nothing more than a mad dog who needs to be put down.

Am I the only one who pictures the Arishok when no one's around just rocking back and forth in his chair going, "I should be killing things, I should be killing things, I should be killing things,"

The Arishok is a soldier, he has no ability to be anything else.  We see normal soldiers, people who haven't had it drilled into them since 12 that killing is the only thing they're good at, having trouble adjusting to peace-time living after a war and the Arishok has probably been fighting off and on with Tevinter for the vast majority of his life.  He was ill suited to the task of sitting and searching, and not killing things.