209 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

Yup. Story wasn't as good - bad word-of-mouth pushed sales down. Maybe there'll be an Ultimate Edition Christmas bundle.

[Everwarden]

Obadiah wrote...

Yup. Story wasn't as good - bad word-of-mouth pushed sales down. Maybe there'll be an Ultimate Edition Christmas bundle.

I'm hoping for a 'Game of the Year' edition so I have something to laugh about. Hell, I might even give it as a gag gift to someone I don't like. 

[Dubya75]

Everwarden wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Yup. Story wasn't as good - bad word-of-mouth pushed sales down. Maybe there'll be an Ultimate Edition Christmas bundle.

I'm hoping for a 'Game of the Year' edition so I have something to laugh about. Hell, I might even give it as a gag gift to someone I don't like. 

Everwarden, I really think unless you have something constructive to add to these forums that perhaps it is time for you to move on.
I believe in giving criticism where it is due, but also credit where it is due.
What you're doing here is nothing short of malicious. No-one likes it.

Sure DA2 wasn't the most perfect game ever, but it is a hell of a lot better than many games out there today.

If you really want something to laugh about, read your own comments back to yourself, they sure make me laugh...in a sinister kind of way.

Modifié par Dubya75, 23 octobre 2011 - 06:50 .

[Cigne]

I see these threads and wonder how anyone can be so certain about their conclusions. Last time I checked the numbers were (vgcharts):

DAO
Xbox 2+mil
PS3 1.3mil
PC 400+k

DA2
Xbox 800+k
PS3 400+k
PC 300+k

Too many variables; did those who bought DAO on Xbox (based on great reviews or KotOR or word of mouth) not buy DA2 because they didn't like DAO? Or because they heard that DA2 wasn't worth it (zero scores on day one? Really? C'mon.)

One can infer that DA2 did not do as well on consoles because it wasn't as good as DAO, because those who bought DAO didn't like it, or even didn't like that type of party based gameplay.

How the numbers are interpreted say more about us (the players) than about the game itself, or Bioware.

Myself, I understand why Bioware focused on making the sequel more console friendly; DAO was built from the ground up as a PC game, but look at where the sales happened. I may not like it, but I understand.

And because I always see Witcher 2 numbers pop up in these threads, but rarely the original Witcher --

Witcher 1 600+k, eventually 1+mil

Witcher 2 1+mil

... which are action rpg, PC exclusives, both of which outsold DAO on PC. Which I never finished because they aren't pause and play, and my reflexes aren't what they used to be.

But that says more about me than the games.

[Night Prowler76]

Dubya75 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Yup. Story wasn't as good - bad word-of-mouth pushed sales down. Maybe there'll be an Ultimate Edition Christmas bundle.

I'm hoping for a 'Game of the Year' edition so I have something to laugh about. Hell, I might even give it as a gag gift to someone I don't like. 

Everwarden, I really think unless you have something constructive to add to these forums that perhaps it is time for you to move on.
I believe in giving criticism where it is due, but also credit where it is due.
What you're doing here is nothing short of malicious. No-one likes it.

Sure DA2 wasn't the most perfect game ever, but it is a hell of a lot better than many games out there today.

If you really want something to laugh about, read your own comments back to yourself, they sure make me laugh...in a sinister kind of way.

That post was malicious? lmao get over yourself.

[Everwarden]

Dubya75 wrote...
Everwarden, I really think unless you have something constructive to add to these forums that perhaps it is time for you to move on.

Your opinion has been noted, good sir!

I believe in giving criticism where it is due, but also credit where it is due.

As do I. I'll credit Bioware with creating some of my all-time favorite games. I'll also credit them with the dubious honor of the biggest disappointment in an awesome franchise since Star Wars: Episode I. 

What you're doing here is nothing short of malicious. No-one likes it.

It's all in how you read the tone. I think you're projecting malice that isn't actually there. Though who am -I- to question the man who speaks for everyone else here? I must bow to your wishes, oh King of the Internets.

If you really want something to laugh about, read your own comments back to yourself, they sure make me laugh...in a sinister kind of way.

See? You do get some amusement out of my posts. I aim to please.

[Yrkoon]

Dubya75 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Yup. Story wasn't as good - bad word-of-mouth pushed sales down. Maybe there'll be an Ultimate Edition Christmas bundle.

I'm hoping for a 'Game of the Year' edition so I have something to laugh about. Hell, I might even give it as a gag gift to someone I don't like. 

Everwarden, I really think unless you have something constructive to add to these forums that perhaps it is time for you to move on.

I love it when  regular posters pretend to be moderators.

He should listen to you because...?

[uberdowzen]

Those figures don't seem right. If we set aside the fact that VGchartz aren't necessarily correct (interesting gamasutra article) EA said that they shipped 2 million copies of DA2. I've seen the argument that shipped doesn't equal sold but it seems unlikely that EA would spend money printing more copies and shipping them out unless they expected to sell most of them. 2 million copies isn't exactly doing badly.

So now some speculation. Perhaps the sales of DA2 were lower than Origins' because people were put off by the difficulty and relative slowness of the story. I get the impression a lot of people who bought Origins' never finished it and it seems unlikely that these people would go out and buy a sequel. You could also make the argument that people bought DAO thinking it was fantasy Mass Effect and then were dissapointed when it turned out to be something quite different.

I was also under the impression that VGchartz doesn't include digital sales which I would have thought would be greater for DA2 than for DAO as DA2 didn't have a physical collector's edition like the original did.

[Zanallen]

Ukki wrote...

Actually it can, I´ve worked with many marketing people and in general they have a tendency to overblow ideas and estimations to make their side appealing. After the truth has blow things on their faces they tend to shift the blame on issue like "we could not anticipate this" or "customers were reluctant to accept these new changes".

No, no it can't. There are numerous variables at work here. You can't conclude that the single reason DA2 failed to meet market projections is because the analysts were wrong about what the consumer actually wanted. That is faulty logic at best and pure fabrication at worst.

[Kroitz]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Cos while the internet seems to consider DA2 a fail, I know plenty of people in real life who have played both games, and love them both - I'd go so far as to say most liked DA2 BETTER.

So its a shame that DA2 didn't sell as well.

The plently of people you know do as much represent the majority as the plently of people everyone else knows.

In my opinion it sold as much at it deserved.

[Uccio]

Zanallen wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Actually it can, I´ve worked with many marketing people and in general they have a tendency to overblow ideas and estimations to make their side appealing. After the truth has blow things on their faces they tend to shift the blame on issue like "we could not anticipate this" or "customers were reluctant to accept these new changes".

No, no it can't. There are numerous variables at work here. You can't conclude that the single reason DA2 failed to meet market projections is because the analysts were wrong about what the consumer actually wanted. That is faulty logic at best and pure fabrication at worst.

Obviously not the only one but a major one.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

I absolutely loved Origins. I did absolutely everything there was to do across several playthroughs.

I preordered DA2 and couldn't wait to fire it up (I purposely avoided all reviews and early release promotional material to avoid any possible spoilers.) "Disappointment" doesn't really begin to describe how I felt a handful of hours into the game. I began to skip past every dialog option it was so incredibly uninteresting... and stuff like not being able to customize the armor of your squad mates left me scratching my head (I love doing stuff like that.) Literally every single thing (apart from speed and fluidity of combat) was downgraded in DA2, it felt like a hugely sloppy rush job. The storyline was not compelling the in the slightest, the characters were boring and I didn't care about any of them, the dungeons felt rushed (constant recycled and rehashed environments with an arbitrary concrete slab or non-interactive door? Great!), etc. Everything felt gimped.

I beat the game and have no compulsion to every play it again.

I won't be buying DA3 unless it generates some crazy word of mouth or something, DA2 was that much a let down for me. After DA2 I 100% won't be preordering it this time, I can tell you that as a certainty.

That's probably why the first one sold twice as well - it was twice as good.

EDIT: This post isn't against BioWare, BioWare is still by far my favorite developer and I can't wait for ME3 (loved the first two,) it's strictly about DA2 and how utterly lackluster I felt it was. 

Modifié par Stinky-DInkins, 23 octobre 2011 - 10:17 .

[lv12medic]

My curiosity peaked when looking and seeing DA:O had a bi-modal structure in it's sales. Probably because DA:O came out at the beginning of November and got that extra holiday sales bump starting about 4 weeks after launch. As for DA2, I'm not surprised it's sales essentially decayed exponentially. Most sales charts for games probably look similar, but DA2's decay is quite steep.

[csfteeeer]

Cigne wrote...

I see these threads and wonder how anyone can be so certain about their conclusions. Last time I checked the numbers were (vgcharts):

DAO
Xbox 2+mil
PS3 1.3mil
PC 400+k

DA2
Xbox 800+k
PS3 400+k
PC 300+k

For some ridiculous Reason that does not show the American Numbers(and neither does the Digital ones)

And i read that Origins out sold the consoles on Pc separetaly but not combined, meaning it probably something a 1.5 million or something.

oh, and TW2 has the advantage of having an incredible Word-of-Mouth, which is a Powerful weapon.

[BubbleDncr]

Kroitz wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Cos while the internet seems to consider DA2 a fail, I know plenty of people in real life who have played both games, and love them both - I'd go so far as to say most liked DA2 BETTER.

So its a shame that DA2 didn't sell as well.

The plently of people you know do as much represent the majority as the plently of people everyone else knows.

In my opinion it sold as much at it deserved.

I know 8 people in real life who loved both Origins and DA2 (that I can think of off the top of my head). I'm the only one who frequents the Bioware forums. 

So if there's 8 people playing these games for every one person who plays that shares their opinions on the forums, then yes, they do represent the majority. Maybe not all of them like it as much as the people I know - maybe your 8 people hated DA2. But I feel confident in saying that the opinions of the people on the forums aren't the opinions of the majority of players, but the opinions of the most passionate players. 

And people tend to be more passionate about expressing their disappointment. 

[Arivle]

"oh, and TW2 has the advantage of having an incredible Word-of-Mouth, which is a Powerful weapon."

Well but TW2 indeed beats DA2 in _every single aspect_ I can think of. Except one which is sadly most important for me - you can't play for female mage/sorceress. But apart from that - sadly TW2 is far, far better game than DA2. That doesn't mean DA2 is a bad game. But TW2 is better. Lot better. And I mourn it because I want to play a witch, not witcher.

[Yrkoon]

BubbleDncr wrote...
So if there's 8 people playing these games for every one person who plays that shares their opinions on the forums, then yes, they do represent the majority. . 

LOL

That's a bunch of IFs, and some really wonky math.. 


1) Assumes that everyone here's 8 friends loved the game  (Which is  ridiculously false)
2) Assumes there's more than 100,000 forum members here (does anyone know  what the membership numbers are?  We need those numbers so we can multiply them by 8 to reach 800,000+, which would constitute a majority) 
3) Assumes  all commenters bought  DA2  (false)
4) Assumes they liked DA2  (also false)


Of course, If we're going to be using that level of  guess-concluding, one need only go to their local  game store and see the bunches upon bunches of USED copies of DA2  sitting there  (you know, when people buy games, don't enjoy them, then sell them back) to be put in the used bin, just waiting for someone, please, anyone to buy them. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:36 .

[KilrB]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Cos while the internet seems to consider DA2 a fail, I know plenty of people in real life who have played both games, and love them both - I'd go so far as to say most liked DA2 BETTER.

So its a shame that DA2 didn't sell as well.

The plently of people you know do as much represent the majority as the plently of people everyone else knows.

In my opinion it sold as much at it deserved.

I know 8 people in real life who loved both Origins and DA2 (that I can think of off the top of my head). I'm the only one who frequents the Bioware forums. 

So if there's 8 people playing these games for every one person who plays that shares their opinions on the forums, then yes, they do represent the majority. Maybe not all of them like it as much as the people I know - maybe your 8 people hated DA2. But I feel confident in saying that the opinions of the people on the forums aren't the opinions of the majority of players, but the opinions of the most passionate players. 

And people tend to be more passionate about expressing their disappointment. 

Perhaps you can explain then why all those people who love DA2 so much didn't make that prediction of "over 45 million" sales come true? <_<

Perhaps you can explain why Origins is outselling DA2 right now in spite of your assertion that more people like DA2 ? <_<

[Arivle]

I don't see what's the point of this neverending DA2 bashing, which by no means was a bad game anyway.

So DA:O was better. Fine. We get it. All get it. I think it was written on every single closet now so I really doubt anyone could miss this opinion and all reasons behind it. Though - personally - I liked DA2 more. Not because it would be a better game - that it indeed wasn't. But I truly hated my character didn't speak in DA:O. But ok. DA:O was better. And now... can we just move forward and help to make DA3 better than both instead of this pointless beating of a dead horse?

Modifié par Arivle, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:52 .

[Lord_Valandil]

BubbleDncr wrote...
I know plenty of people in real life

In real life?
So, what's this? The Matrix or The Twilight Internet Zone or what?

Arivle wrote...

I don't see what's the point of this neverending DA2 bashing, which by no means was a bad game anyway.

It wasn't bad. Not by my standards, it wasn't as terrible as some other games I had to endure...such as Hellboy: The Science of Evil or F.E.A.R. (I know some people love it, I hated it).
But it was pretty much a failure, not the big hit that Bioware surely wanted. As of now, I don't know what to expect of DA3, the DLC for DA2 looks terrible (for me), and I'm not spending a single cent on it...learned my lesson with that rip-off called Witch Hunt.

Modifié par Lord_Valandil, 24 octobre 2011 - 02:59 .

[Joy Divison]

BubbleDncr wrote...

I know 8 people in real life who loved both Origins and DA2 (that I can think of off the top of my head). I'm the only one who frequents the Bioware forums. 

So if there's 8 people playing these games for every one person who plays that shares their opinions on the forums, then yes, they do represent the majority. Maybe not all of them like it as much as the people I know - maybe your 8 people hated DA2. But I feel confident in saying that the opinions of the people on the forums aren't the opinions of the majority of players, but the opinions of the most passionate players. 

And people tend to be more passionate about expressing their disappointment. 

When it comes time to decide on a major in college, I suggest you pass on statistics.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:09 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Yrkoon wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

And the point of this thread is? Is this another rehash "DA:O sold better than DA2" thread? Swell. Yes, everyone is well aware that DA:O sold better.

Now we just need to figure out *why* it did.

Scratch that.  The Developers need to figure out why.

 

And they will adjust due to DA2 not hitting the notes they wanted it to. That's how criticism of any form of art or science, or anything, works.

I don't get why people think that game devs are morons in any sense. 

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:11 .

[the_juice1983]

i have enjoyed all 3 da games and the dlc's

[KilrB]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

And the point of this thread is? Is this another rehash "DA:O sold better than DA2" thread? Swell. Yes, everyone is well aware that DA:O sold better.

Now we just need to figure out *why* it did.

Scratch that.  The Developers need to figure out why.

 

And they will adjust due to DA2 not hitting the notes they wanted it to. That's how criticism of any form of art or science, or anything, works.

I don't get why people think that game devs are morons in any sense. 

Hmmm ....

Maybe because some of them decided to lobotomize their best (or second best) IP for it's second outing and then predicted it would outsell it's predecessor? <_<

[Arivle]

Maybe because some of them decided to lobotomize their best (or second best) IP for it's second outing and then predicted it would outsell it's predecessor? <_<

You think they didn't know? You wouldn't honestly expect any company to say about their new upcoming product:

Sorry guys, it's not bad but we had half the time for it, smaller budget and such, so it will be more linear, kind of unfinished with reused dungeons and basically just one town to explore. But it is a good game nevertheless so we hope it will sell at least somewhat. ;-)