209 réponses à ce sujet

[KilrB]

Arivle wrote...

Maybe because some of them decided to lobotomize their best (or second best) IP for it's second outing and then predicted it would outsell it's predecessor? <_<

You think they didn't know? You wouldn't honestly expect any company to say about their new upcoming product:

Sorry guys, it's not bad but we had half the time for it, smaller budget and such, so it will be more linear, kind of unfinished with reused dungeons and basically just one town to explore. But it is a good game nevertheless so we hope it will sell at least somewhat. ;-)

So they're not dumb ... just liars?

I can't see that being any better an endorsement.

[Arivle]

So they're not dumb ... just liars?

No company speaks about negative aspects of their products. Sad but true. I learned that when I was seven. You didn't?

And the bottom line is... Bioware makes one of the best games in the world to which DA2 definitely belongs. I don't feel like bashing a game which I had tons of fun to play just because it was worse than it's predecessor and not the best game I ever played. If only there would be more "bad" games like DA2.

[cihimi]

Making decisions based on what others say is really the way to go. Imagine, no wasted time thinking on your own (which probably hurts).

[Gabey5]

games that sell more does not mean they are better. Hell look at Mass effect one sales. That game was great but went under the radar

[Rahelron]

KilrB wrote...

Arivle wrote...

Maybe because some of them decided to lobotomize their best (or second best) IP for it's second outing and then predicted it would outsell it's predecessor? <_<

You think they didn't know? You wouldn't honestly expect any company to say about their new upcoming product:

Sorry guys, it's not bad but we had half the time for it, smaller budget and such, so it will be more linear, kind of unfinished with reused dungeons and basically just one town to explore. But it is a good game nevertheless so we hope it will sell at least somewhat. ;-)

So they're not dumb ... just liars?

I can't see that being any better an endorsement.

I think that at Bioware were really convinced they had done a great job and DA2 was the perfect game for their audience. Then DA2 hit the shops, the costumers started hating it and the developers realized: "Wtf? It wasn't that great of a game after all".

Why did this happen?

1- Because of time constraints (and this caused the presence of bugs, reused areas etc)
2- Because they thought that marketing researches were all they needed to build a great game. They thought "let's think about what our potential audience want and build it". They stopped thinking about the improvements they could have introduced into the game and focused only in building some new features that were appealing to what they thought was their audience.

[Yrkoon]

Also, one more thing.  A side note really.

People just love to say that  "critics and complainers" tend to be the loudest of the bunch.    And while that may be true  with regards to DA2,  I'm really not sure it's  always the rule.  It certainly wasn't true  when  DA:O came out.

 In November 2009, I was on the fence.  I  didn't know anything about DA:O and since it was a brand new IP, I didn't want to make a blind  day 1 purchase.  So I decided to wait and see the fan reaction.  The *loudest* voices I heard were the people  gushing its praises.   The amount of   pure Hyperbole flooding just about every forum I visited was... deafening.

People weren't just saying "eh, good game"  or:  "hey, this is a pretty cool game".  No.  it was more like:  "OMG, this is the greatest game I've ever played"  and  "holy sh*t.   this game is  Better than BG2!".    After getting the message loud and clear, over and over and over again, everywhere I looked,  I decided to buy the game.  

Question:  Honestly, is *THAT*  what we saw  from all the forums in the week or two after DA2 came out?  Nope.  it wasn't.   It was a decidedly different mood.    And you all know it.   Ask yourself why, now.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:39 .

[Yuqi]

Another one of these threads?
*Plays Violin*

[HonestJoe]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Another one of these threads?
*Plays Violin*

*Forms a violin duo with you*

*Pulls out a cello to form a string trio*

[KilrB]

Rahelron wrote...

KilrB wrote...

Arivle wrote...

Maybe because some of them decided to lobotomize their best (or second best) IP for it's second outing and then predicted it would outsell it's predecessor? <_<

You think they didn't know? You wouldn't honestly expect any company to say about their new upcoming product:

Sorry guys, it's not bad but we had half the time for it, smaller budget and such, so it will be more linear, kind of unfinished with reused dungeons and basically just one town to explore. But it is a good game nevertheless so we hope it will sell at least somewhat. ;-)

So they're not dumb ... just liars?

I can't see that being any better an endorsement.

I think that at Bioware were really convinced they had done a great job and DA2 was the perfect game for their audience. Then DA2 hit the shops, the costumers started hating it and the developers realized: "Wtf? It wasn't that great of a game after all".

Why did this happen?

1- Because of time constraints (and this caused the presence of bugs, reused areas etc)
2- Because they thought that marketing researches were all they needed to build a great game. They thought "let's think about what our potential audience want and build it". They stopped thinking about the improvements they could have introduced into the game and focused only in building some new features that were appealing to what they thought was their audience.

Exactly.

As has been pointed out several times, Origins achieved it's greatest sales on console.

This in spite of being developed for PC and ported for said consoles.

So, they made the next game for what they thought their new audience wanted ...

 ... a "streamlined", console-centric, action rpg, with lots of "style" and minimal substance ...

 ... but never asked themselves why those players bought Origins.

The ones I know bought, and liked, Origins precisely because is was NOT that kind of game.

OOPS!!!

[Cobra's_back]

Brockololly wrote...

DuskWarden wrote...

Approximately 25% of DA:2 total sales came from the pre-order didn't they? That says a lot about Origins, most games will have less than 10% for that figure. Three of my mates played Origins, one loved it & played it as much as me, one liked it and one didn't even finish the Origins story. The last guy obviously didn't buy DA:2, I got the SE. The guy who really liked it waited a while, and didn't buy it based on my advice. In short, word of mouth can have quite a snowball effect. Despite strangely glowing reviews from most 'professional' game reviewers, there was obviously a very negative reaction on these boards and on pretty much every gaming board.

Yup. While questionable, I think it was mentioned that there were about 400,000 preorders (although I'm not sure that includes PC), so even if you say DA2 sold through 2 million, thats about 25%.

But I agree- word of mouth is a powerful thing. When a game gets off on the wrong foot and gets a bad name, it doesn't matter what they do. With DA2, you had the craptastic marketing seeimgly trying to go out of its way to alienate fans of Origins, the ridiculously odd SE preorder deal with the cutoff date and just the general lack of information for the longest time, coupled with the whole adoption of more Mass Effect inspired changes.

And its not even like BioWare launched DA2 in a busy or competitive window- there were no competing RPGS out until TW2 and not even many other big AAA games. Whereas Origins launched in the midst of Assassin's Creed and Modern Warfare.

It might have been profitable for EA/BioWare due to how cheaply and quickly they kicked the game out the door, but I think it did lasting damage to DA as a franchise since people won't be nearly as trusting in anything they see about DA3.

Thanks for the information. Just an idea, could the sales mean that customers are moving to RPGs that offer more nonlinear stories? Could they have incorrectly set expectations in DA2 with a poorly written product description? I’m just asking not my opinion. Are there poll numbers to compare where the market is going?
If the DA story leads the character on a set path no choices could they just call it an action game?  Do action games sell as well? Again, I’m just asking not my opinion. Could they test their story on the market to see how many are interested in playing the character in their story?  Could the comics they intend to release help them.
The market demand for video games isn’t shrinking yet. The 25% pre-order from DAO customers some of which were not pleased with the product could mean trouble. Hopefully Bio Ware will carefully market the DA3 product and set expectations accordingly. I would be interested in the current displayed story they have for DA3. It has Varric and Alistair in it.

[Wintersembrace]

Please ppl every time a post like this is made a forum moderator dies Think of the moderators

na each person to there own i for one did not enjoy DA2 there where aspects of the game i did like and would have liked to seen expanded but the flaws just ruined it for me so i let my wallet do the talking by not buying any of the dlc for it and no plan to pre-order DA3 fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. and to those who enjoyed DA2 that's good you got your moneys worth some of us however did not

[Cobra's_back]

Arivle wrote...

So they're not dumb ... just liars?

No company speaks about negative aspects of their products. Sad but true. I learned that when I was seven. You didn't?

And the bottom line is... Bioware makes one of the best games in the world to which DA2 definitely belongs. I don't feel like bashing a game which I had tons of fun to play just because it was worse than it's predecessor and not the best game I ever played. If only there would be more "bad" games like DA2.

If the company sets up an incorrect expectation, they get negative press and a tarnished Rep. This I learned getting my MBA. They don't have to call out the negatives. Call out the positives. This is on Amazon's site product description for DA2. I also found this in Bio Ware site:
·        Enjoy the game's atypical, story-within-a-story nonlinear narrative style
·        Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make
·        Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land (okay keep)
·        Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior (okay keep)
·        Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go (okay keep)
The highlighted areas are setting the wrong expectation.
They should have added something about Hawke battling  
·           A tragic life
·           Possible love triangle jealousy
·           Brewing evil about to explode
·           Sometime like will Hawke and her/his companions make it.
They should have removed the highlighted part. I’m not interested in the romance part but they put considerable effort on it. They should have capitalized on it.
 

[Persephone]

Are the official numbers out?

No? Still the same speculation and hearsay based on inaccurate sites? 

DRATS!

[Great_Horn]

Rahelron wrote...

Look at these predictions: they were made before the release of DA2.

www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

In short: the analysts predicted that DA2 was going to sell more than DA:O beacuse of three elements:
1- More action-oriented approach to combat.
2- Voiced main character
3- A general look-and-feel that was appealing to a broader audience.

For the analysts the game was probably going to be hated by some hard-core DAO fans, but those fans were going to pre-order the game before its release so it wasn't going to matter.

Well, I got the feeling that DA:2 was more like an hack & slay game, instead of an
action RPG. The whole combat situation was so over the top und looked total ridicules.
Exploding bodies, gigantic swords, etc.

While I can understand that BW tries to establish a unique graphic look, this water-colour
approach didn’t do it for me.  

 

Well to me, DA:2 failed simply by the fact, that BW stripped nearly everything what made
DA:O good.  

Modifié par Great_Horn, 24 octobre 2011 - 07:34 .

[Persephone]

Great_Horn wrote...

Rahelron wrote...

Look at these predictions: they were made before the release of DA2.

www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

In short: the analysts predicted that DA2 was going to sell more than DA:O beacuse of three elements:
1- More action-oriented approach to combat.
2- Voiced main character
3- A general look-and-feel that was appealing to a broader audience.

For the analysts the game was probably going to be hated by some hard-core DAO fans, but those fans were going to pre-order the game before its release so it wasn't going to matter.

Well, I got the feeling that DA:2 was more like an hack & slay game, instead of an
action RPG. The whole combat situation was so over the top und looked total ridicules.
Exploding bodies, gigantic swords, etc.

Diablo II is NOT pleased to hear that. DAII is not a H&S game AT all. No more than DAO is.

Great Sword size: Same as in DAO. Modders even tested that.

Exploding bodies: Bug. Long fixed by an official patch as well as mods.

[Cutlass Jack]

I'm just here for the string section.

[Great_Horn]

Persephone wrote...

Great_Horn wrote...

[
Well, I got the feeling that DA:2 was more like an hack & slay game, instead of an
action RPG. The whole combat situation was so over the top und looked total ridicules.
Exploding bodies, gigantic swords, etc.

Diablo II is NOT pleased to hear that. DAII is not a H&S game AT all. No more than DAO is.

Great Sword size: Same as in DAO. Modders even tested that.

Exploding bodies: Bug. Long fixed by an official patch as well as mods.

Well I never got the feeling I was slashing in DA:O. I had to face encounters. The
hole spawning approach was not implemented in DA:O, because it was not necessary.


 

Actually in DA:2 I almost got the feeling that I kill so much bandits, that there are no
more left in hole Thedas.

Modifié par Great_Horn, 24 octobre 2011 - 07:43 .

[Persephone]

Great_Horn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Great_Horn wrote...

[
Well, I got the feeling that DA:2 was more like an hack & slay game, instead of an
action RPG. The whole combat situation was so over the top und looked total ridicules.
Exploding bodies, gigantic swords, etc.

Diablo II is NOT pleased to hear that. DAII is not a H&S game AT all. No more than DAO is.

Great Sword size: Same as in DAO. Modders even tested that.

Exploding bodies: Bug. Long fixed by an official patch as well as mods.

Well I never got the feeling I was slashing in DA:O. I had to face encounters.

Sadly I never had that feeling as I dragged myself through DAO's ridiculously bloated dungerons.

[Great_Horn]

Persephone wrote...

Sadly I never had that feeling as I dragged myself through DAO's ridiculously bloated dungerons.

Those dungeons are called the Deep Roads.

 

Funny, as I remember correctly, I read that a lot of people who bought Legacy liked the dungeons,
cause it reminds them to the one in DA:O.

Modifié par Great_Horn, 24 octobre 2011 - 07:53 .

[Persephone]

Great_Horn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sadly I never had that feeling as I dragged myself through DAO's ridiculously bloated dungerons.

Those dungeons are called the Deep Roads.

No. They are called The Deep Roads, The Fade and Andraste's Temple. Also known as plot-less padding dungeons for the most part.

[Bryy_Miller]

KilrB wrote...

 ... but never asked themselves why those players bought Origins.

Next can you tell us what Gaider and Darrah want for lunch?

[Persephone]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

KilrB wrote...

 ... but never asked themselves why those players bought Origins.

Next can you tell us what Gaider and Darrah want for lunch?

Tears. Freshly shed by players, duh!;)

[Bryy_Miller]

That's creepy. You should start helping the police solve murders.

[Great_Horn]

Persephone wrote...

Great_Horn wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Sadly I never had that feeling as I dragged myself through DAO's ridiculously bloated dungerons.

Those dungeons are called the Deep Roads.

No. They are called The Deep Roads, The Fade and Andraste's Temple. Also known as plot-less padding dungeons for the most part.

plot-less padding? You mean like someone was telling you the end on a story at the
beginning of a great adventure?

 

But back to my H&S argument. Why has BW removed friendly fire expect on the nightmare setting.
It looks so strange to cast a fire storm which has no effect on your party.  Remember think like a general …without
tactical view!

 

Modifié par Great_Horn, 24 octobre 2011 - 08:04 .