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Dragon Age 2 Sales.


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#201
JaegerBane

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nedpepper wrote...
No, I do believe that the critical response from hardcore RPG fans had an impact on sales.  Some of the decisions made for DA 2 simply didn't work.  We know that.  But, I still maintain that even if the game would have been identical to Origins, the sales would be very similar.  It's almost as if they lost the mass audience from the very onset.


I suppose its possible, but I think the problem is there's simply no evidence to support it. It could very well have been the situation you describe, but generally speaking a game that scores less (and in these modern times, a lesser score equals poor word of mouth) is typically less likely to sell the same kind of numbers as previous games in a franchise (and vice versa). What you're saying is that the audience magically disappeared and that the fact it didn't score as well has no correlation to its lesser sales, which is all very interesting but not really a justifiable position without any evidence to support it. Its a bit like saying an insurance company that prices itself out of the competition only failed on the basis that its people simply stopped using them, not the fact it priced itself out.

And, just from personal experience, I know a lot of folks, particularly X-Box gamers, who buy games just because they're bored and they hear it's a good game.  Or used to.  People don't have as much loose change floating around in their pockets.  So when it comes to buying into a franchise, I think the average gamer wants the predictable.  (Call of Duty, Halo, ect....games I personally find dull and uninspired.)


Indeed.... but then it becomes a question of whether the game they took a chance on can keep their attention. If a game fails in this then it isn't really sensible to assume it failed simply because the audience just didn't have the attention span, particularly when it scores less.

#202
FedericoV

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Yrkoon wrote...

What in the world are you babbling about?Image IPB


:D

I was typing a very convoluted reply to your last posts and know what: I reread those lines and I lolled hard at myself. Seriously: you are right. At the end, I don't know what I'm talking about. Sales, metacritic, etc. The only thing that matters is what I made out of that series of games in terms of fun and overall enjoyement as a player. I believe that Awakening was not popular and that DA:O's success is largely exagerated, but those are just personal opinions that I cannot back if not with subjective experiences.

It's pointless (at least for me) to discuss sales and such or to try to use the avaible and limited data to support a position since I miss too many elements to form a sound opinion. It's even more pointless to read between the lines or guess what has passed in the dev group mind when they developed DA2. I should have known better than write the first post or continue to defend it when I regretted most of its content in the same moment I posted it on BSN :D.

So, I hope you could accept my apology for wasting a bit of your time and even hope that you could understand that the source for all my "babbling" is honest (at least). I simply do not want Bioware to suck. And I would like to see a more positive community like in the good old days of BG and NWN. But it's not my work to correct the actual perception of the average forumite and from time to time I rant too, so it's even more pointless. So, apology again, hope that it make sense :D.

Modifié par FedericoV, 28 octobre 2011 - 05:34 .


#203
Persephone

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Filament wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Sinuphro wrote...

@nedpepper
the drop in sales means DA2 IS a bad game. maybe if u studied organizational behavior, business communication and marketing principles in college, u would had understood why DA2 was a failure. There are ways to tell when a game would be a total failure.

Then this must mean Avatar is the best movie ever then and Call of Duty is the best series ever. :huh:

And Planescape Torment is one ****ty-ass game.


And several hitchcock classics are rotten movies because they flopped at the BO. Like....Vertigo.:lol:

#204
Saintthanksgiving

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My problem with some of these, "Origins 2 wouldn't have done any better" arguments is this...

A) Most of the people who didnt like Origins were most likely not going to buy DA2.

B) Most of the people who liked Origins were probably going to buy DA2.

C) Most of the people who LOVED Origins probably pre-ordered DA2.

D) Most of the people who had no interest Origins also had no interest in DA2.

So bending over backwards to reach an audience that already disliked your product (Group A), or was at best indifferent to your product (Group D).... makes no sense.  You can argue that a larg marketing push was made towards Group D, but what type of returns can you expect from marketing a Sequel to a customer who didnt care about the First Installment?

The best case scenario here is retaining some of Group A, who were willing to give the sequel a shot.  Appealing to Group D is a longshot, at best.

What Bioware actually accomplished with this plan, however, was angering a large portion of the core audience that LOVED the original product (Group C).  And scaring off a large number of the people who LIKED the original product (Group B).

They still made money off of Group C from preorders, but the anger generated in that community scared off a large portion of people who didnt love Origins enough to pre-order it sight unseen (Group B).

Now whether or not a large portion of Groups A or B would have enjoyed DA2 more than Origins is up for debate... but the fact is, a large number of them didnt bother trying it, after they heard what Group C had to say about it.

The technical and stylistic issues are another matter, but they obviously feed in to the failures with Groups A & B.  Group C was going to buy the game regardless.

Point is? Don't Defecate where you Masticate.

Edited to make corrections... some groups were mis-identified....

I remain,

Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 28 octobre 2011 - 09:30 .


#205
Costin_Razvan

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A) Most of the people who didnt like Origins were most likely not going to buy DA2.


They were if the game had gotten good enough reviews, keep that stuff in mind. That thing happened EXACTLY for ME2 which was very different in gameplay then ME1 and that changes for ME2 pissed off enough fans of ME1.

So no incorrect here.

B) Most of the people who liked Origins were probably going to buy DA2


Depends what you define by most. Most people buy games best on reviews and word of mouth, not some loyalty towards a company or due to the fact they liked a previous game.

C) Most of the people who LOVED Origins probably pre-ordered DA2.


True.

D) Most of the people who had no interest Origins also had no interest in DA2.


Going back to point A. When ME2 started getting stellar reviews and a lot of people started saying how awesome it was...well it got a LOT of attention.

Your conclusion is incorrect, the only situation where you are 100% right is in C

#206
Saintthanksgiving

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[quote]Costin_Razvan wrote...

[quote] A) Most of the people who didnt like Origins were most likely not going to buy DA2. [/quote]

They were if the game had gotten good enough reviews, keep that stuff in mind. That thing happened EXACTLY for ME2 which was very different in gameplay then ME1 and that changes for ME2 pissed off enough fans of ME1.

So no incorrect here."



Well here is why I dont like using Mass Effect as a good example, although I'm sure it was used to in the planning stages of DA2...

Mass Effect was an (and I hate this term) Action/RPG... it was basically a shooter with RPG elements. 

When ME2 moved away from the RPG aspects and embraced more of the Shooter aspects... you were not really breaking with the "feel" of the gameplay.

Origins was an RPG.  It really wasnt a hybrid type of game.  It certainly moved along in the evolution of the RPG, but at heart it is a party based RPG with some flashy parts.

DA2, though still an RPG, has moved toward being an ACTION/RPG.  Are you pulling the trigger for every swing of the sword like in Oblivion? No... but it plays and feels more like an Action game than an RPG.

Basically, ME2 made a shooter into more of a shooter.
                DA2 made an RPG into less of an RPG

... and that is why it didnt work.

Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 28 octobre 2011 - 06:50 .


#207
Saintthanksgiving

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Basically, its like you own a car company, and you want to increase sales of your sports car.

so you decide to put a spoiler on your sports car.

Sales go through the roof on your sports car.

So now you want to increase minivan sales...

so you put a spoiler on your minivan...

and now you are all pissed off that no one wants to buy your "Awesome Minivan".

you probably should have just increased fuel efficiency or put more leg room in the thing.

P.S. You are all Soccer Moms.

#208
Costin_Razvan

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Well here is why I dont like using Mass Effect as a good example, although I'm sure it was used to in the planning stages of DA2...


The Witcher then, and then the TW2 if you want a better "RPG" example. The basic idea of what they were trying to do wasn't wrong, Their implementation of said idea however was very very bad.

For DA2 I think they were trying to win both the JRPG crowd and the WoW Crowd ( and I can very safely say that not a lot of WoW players liked DA:O...well based on my in-game experience ). Problem is they just failed at it. But I DO see similiarties with WoW personally ( Cartoonish graphics, mad villains, action-turn based hybrid combat )

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 28 octobre 2011 - 07:25 .


#209
Morroian

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

A) Most of the people who didnt like Origins were most likely not going to buy DA2.

They were if the game had gotten good enough reviews, keep that stuff in mind.

Not necessarily, I for one wouldn't

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

Basically, ME2 made a shooter into more of a shooter.
                DA2 made an RPG into less of an RPG

No it didn't, it made it into a different style of rpg

Modifié par Morroian, 28 octobre 2011 - 09:40 .


#210
Saintthanksgiving

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Morroian wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

A) Most of the people who didnt like Origins were most likely not going to buy DA2.

They were if the game had gotten good enough reviews, keep that stuff in mind.

Not necessarily, I for one wouldn't

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

Basically, ME2 made a shooter into more of a shooter.
                DA2 made an RPG into less of an RPG

No it didn't, it made it into a different style of rpg


when you say "different style of rpg" you are basically saying that there is a diversion from the norm... so tomato tomato.