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Anyone have the video of the Lesbian at Blizzconn?


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#26
Seagloom

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Carfax wrote...

I've never played Wow, nor do I ever intend to, but some people might say that certain races in Wow already appear to be fairly androgynous.


Androgyny is nowhere near the same thing. Besides, Blizzard cleaves to the old school fantasy art direction of men being buff and women being curvy hotties. On occasion they break away from that mold slightly; such as with Diablo III's barbarian female, but by and large that is not their approach. I cannot see a company so concerned with appealing to their base as Blizzard is to take the risk of polarizing their target demographics.

Modifié par Seagloom, 23 octobre 2011 - 11:31 .


#27
bleetman

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Pious_Augustus wrote...

I think Dragon Age 2 with it's forced gay theme was an experiment as if they can get away with it.

<_<

Are you sure it was "forced"? Are you sure it wasn't completely optional?

Modifié par bleetman, 23 octobre 2011 - 11:32 .


#28
whykikyouwhy

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Carfax wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...
But I believe what occured at Blizzcon was a fan/player asking a simple question. That does not equate any "aggressive" promotion or demands for inclusion. It's a question. From a fan. From a player. From a player who may be gay, yes.


It may have started out as a simple question, but it invariably got blown out of proportion due to the politicization of homosexuality. 

You have people/factions that are in favor of the promotion and inclusion of homosexuality throughout all aspects of Society,  and then there are those people/organizations that are diametrically opposed to anything relating to homosexuality.....as well as those in the middle, that neither stand in favor of, or against it.

Thats just the reality of the situation, and the discussion over at WoW forums is just a symptom of a much greater issue.

The ironic thing though is that according to some forum posters, WoW does feature gay characters..  They just aren't out and proud about it.



But, regarding the inclusion of LGBT characters in games, if no one asks the question, how will the developers be aware and/or certain that there is a concern?


If Blizzard has one iota of common sense about them, they won't base their policies on the concerns of a small group of players.....like Bioware.  Homosexuality is something that is potentially combustible here in the U.S, as there is a deep divide when it comes to accepting it.

I don't know when or if we will ever see a day when concerns over identity, in all of its aspects, do not need to be raised or voiced. I don't know when those concerns will ever not be divisive. But the fact is, there is a greater community at work here - the player community. People who come together to play a game, to enjoy that game, and to find something of themselves within it. As players, as people who spend a considerable amount of time immersed in the game world, we tend to want a little something that we can identify with. For some it's the qualities of the characters - how (s)he speaks, how (s)he acts. For others, its the character's background/origin story. It's about the character interacting in his/her world and the player interacting through the character.

A concern being potentially combustible shouldn't stop players from raising it. It's unfortunate, yes. But as history has shown, change in how people perceive one another can come from small steps forward - and such steps come from people asking questions.

How things may have exploded on the WoW forums is unfortunate. It would be nice if players could meet on the common ground of what they enjoy and discuss the things they want in their games without it coming down to vitriol and hate speech.

But again, I think that posing a question is a good thing - especially if phrased well, if spoken politely. It does not dictate a demand or ultimatum. It just says "hey, I hope you'll at least listen and hear me out for a minute. Thanks for your time."

#29
slimgrin

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Seagloom wrote...

Carfax wrote...

I've never played Wow, nor do I ever intend to, but some people might say that certain races in Wow already appear to be fairly androgynous.


Androgyny is nowhere near the same thing. Besides, Blizzard cleaves to the old school fantasy art direction of men being buff and women being curvy hotties. On occasion they break away from that mold slightly; such as with Diablo III's barbarian female, but by and large that is not their approach. I cannot see a company so concerned with appealing to their base as Blizzard is to take the risk of polarizing their target demographics.


It does'nt have to be polarizing...what if the buff female barbarian is a lesbian? That's a start.

#30
AngryFrozenWater

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At the end of the 70s/beginning of the 80s one could buy so called agendas (booklets to keep track of your appointments). Yeah, really! Made of paper. No one thought of keeping track of them on a computer in those days. Ghehe. Anyway, those agendas were themed. So, for an example, one could buy the Feminist Agenda of <insert year here>. They sure provoked discussion. It's about time we get those back for the gay community. Let's see how many LBGT agendas end up on office desks. :P

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 23 octobre 2011 - 11:42 .


#31
Pious_Augustus

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bleetman wrote...

Pious_Augustus wrote...

I think Dragon Age 2 with it's forced gay theme was an experiment as if they can get away with it.

<_<

Are you sure it was "forced"? Are you sure it wasn't completely optional?


It is illegal in these forums to make mention about getting negative points for not being gay among other issues but thats beating a dead horse and until Bioware goes full throttle and loses money like Blizzard has I've talked enough about it.

Moving on a bunch of Moderators on offical game forums are coming on to the Blizzard forums asking people to stop talking about not including LBTG or whatever content. Sadly at this point Blizzard hasn't nuked the forums because they don't want to ****** off the majority, again.

#32
Seagloom

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Pious_Augustus wrote...

I think Dragon Age 2 with it's forced gay theme was an experiment as if they can get away with it. It caused a lot of problems but focusing on this feature and forcing it in there can cause a huge problem. A lot of developers have had gay content in game like Bioware but it seems people want something like Dragon Age II where its forced unlike Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire were it was optonal.


You need to reexamine the definition of the word forced. The only difference between Dragon Age II and Jade Empire in this regard is the latter required the player to actively pursue a same-sex romance. Whereas in DA2 NPCs may try to initiative a relationship themselves. That is not forced. It is merely putting the player in a reactive rather than proactive position.

KotOR is a poor example for your argument, as Juhani is the one who expresses a desire to begin a relationship first.

All romances in these games are optional as well. You have to choose one. Only one continues. Or none, if the player prefers.

Also, "focusing on this issue" is an overstatement. Romances are, at best, an insignificant portion of every BioWare game. A few lines here and there about a budding relationship is hardly focusing. Based on what I read, DA2's story was about Qunari, then templars and mages. Not the odyssesy of Hawke's love life.

Modifié par Seagloom, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:00 .


#33
Seagloom

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slimgrin wrote...

It does'nt have to be polarizing...what if the buff female barbarian is a lesbian? That's a start.


A start is not what Carfax suggested. He made it sound as if a few gay characters would suddenly lead to a mass trans migration into the game world. :P It is simply not that cut and dry. Trans may be part of the LGBTQ acronym, but that does not presuppose the inclusion of LGB characters is a gateway to T. That is touching a whole other manifold discussion, however.

Modifié par Seagloom, 24 octobre 2011 - 12:01 .


#34
LiquidGrape

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Pious_Augustus wrote...

It is illegal in these forums to make mention about getting negative points for not being gay among other issues but thats beating a dead horse and until Bioware goes full throttle and loses money like Blizzard has I've talked enough about it.


If you're referring to the Anders "incident", I'd be inclined to agree that the discussion is somewhat like beating a dead horse, seeing as they aren't "negative points" at all.
- They're rivalry points.
It isn't a punishment. It's a different dynamic and the logical outcome of how you might approach a very real situation with a character in a very particular emotional mode.

Get over it.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 23 octobre 2011 - 11:59 .


#35
jlb524

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Pious_Augustus wrote...

It is illegal in these forums to make mention about getting negative points for not being gay among other issues but thats beating a dead horse and until Bioware goes full throttle and loses money like Blizzard has I've talked enough about it.


From wikipedia:  A theme is a broad idea, message, or moral of a story.

What gay 'theme' was in DA2?

#36
Isaidlunch

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I see nothing wrong with her question, just the people overreacting about it. One harmless question about the lack of LGBT characters and suddenly she's trying to shove her lifestyle on others? It's a valid subject, every gay romance in WoW is either really minor and/or left ambiguous. It gets disheartening when your sexuality is something that game developers purposely try to avoid and unfortunately it will stay that way because this is how people react when it gets mentioned.

#37
blothulfur

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You think you lot have got it hard, there is absolutely no provision made for Qunari like myself. And frequently people run from me in the street howling in terror or pull their children indoors while casting the sign of the evil eye at me, mind you that happened before I converted to the Qun. Still I endure and in enduring I grow strong.

#38
slimgrin

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blothulfur wrote...

You think you lot have got it hard, there is absolutely no provision made for Qunari like myself. And frequently people run from me in the street howling in terror or pull their children indoors while casting the sign of the evil eye at me, mind you that happened before I converted to the Qun. Still I endure and in enduring I grow strong.


Growing strong through rejection? Madness!!!

None of us straight folk have had to endure that...

#39
Guest_lightsnow13_*

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May I ask... What the CRAP is the argument right now? Lesbians were in a WoW video? They weren't being represented? What is going on?...

#40
Pious_Augustus

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lightsnow13 wrote...

May I ask... What the CRAP is the argument right now? Lesbians were in a WoW video? They weren't being represented? What is going on?...


The gays wanted more say and a gay character in World of Warcraft. In turn fans have been rioting about that and the panda faction. At this point Blizzard has commented on the rioting on the forums but they are not doing anything about it.

Bottom line Ghostwalker pissed off the majority in CATA to favor the hardcore raiders....doing so he pretty much snubbed the causals and normal gamers who are jumping ship. So right now they are in crisis mode and in stead of banning people posting hate topics about gays they are leaving them alone in the World of Warcraft forums because everyone is doing it and Blizzard though they can afford it for a short time doesn't want to make the majority mad.

Go ahead and look you even have some blue post mods who talk about the rioting but are doing nothing about it or trying to be negative. This is what happens when the company offends the majority and focuses on an minority. Now they are on damage control

Modifié par Pious_Augustus, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .


#41
Bryy_Miller

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Volus Warlord wrote...
Only downhill from here on till Kotick closes the places down.


Kotick knows they make iconic and games and they pull rabbits out of their hat. That, believe it or not, means more to executives than a current spat of low financial earnings.

#42
Kaiser Arian XVII

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At this point Blizzard has commented on the rioting on the forums but they are not doing anything about it.

The only funny part! lol

#43
lobi

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This thread has no lolcats.

#44
Romantiq

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Who cares about lesbians and gays at the moment. The new expansion is about god damn pandas god damn it!

#45
Kaiser Shepard

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Pious_Augustus wrote...

It is illegal in these forums to make mention about getting negative points for not being gay among other issues but thats beating a dead horse and until Bioware goes full throttle and loses money like Blizzard has I've talked enough about it.

It most certainly isn't, but I've been called "homophobe" for less on here.

#46
Guest_greengoron89_*

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I'd like to comment on the thread, but I'm not entirely sure what the thread is even about - the OP left me horribly confused with his first post. You could seriously do with some English lessons, my friend.

Modifié par greengoron89, 24 octobre 2011 - 05:46 .


#47
Homebound

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ohdeargod, i hope all these wowheads stay in wow..I dont want their seething hatred infecting my GW2.

#48
Guest_Nyoka_*

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This thread is hilarious :lol:

Hello, straight people!

Image IPB
(original)

Modifié par Nyoka, 24 octobre 2011 - 09:10 .


#49
Eternal Phoenix

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Who?

#50
xxSylphxx

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I used to think the US Military was the slowest group to respond to social change. Do WOW fans still have a Don't ask, Don't tell policy? I don't play WOW, so I wouldn't know that nor if their characters take group showers. Hmmm...