96 réponses à ce sujet

[Nadia]

I find the topic of this thread a bit odd because I hardly can romance anyone else than Anders in my several playthroughs as a lady Hawke:-) I don't agree with what he did at the end of DA2 was - to force a change like that.. but, I expected that, he tried to warn Hawke few times about himself.

There is something irresistible for me in that man ! As well as in Cullen. I guess I love men who are capable of sacrificing their lives for something good what they strongly believe in - funny how these two have totally other point of view and I can respect and agree with most of what they believe ;-)

[Jaulen]

@Nadia....I find it odd that for a RPG people aren't getting into the spirit of it and playing the relationships as their Hawke would...

I'm having (and have had) a lot of fun in the DA universe so far playing a Warden/Champion totally against my type.

And I'd agree with another poster, the Seb flirt lines are....creepy.

[Estelindis]

Actually, Jaulen, I may have spoken too hastily. Just played a bit of MotA with Anders (started it from a pre-Chantry save) and was almost floored by how much I'd missed his input. When the topic at hand isn't the mage-templar war, he's a delight to be around. It's such a pity that "the cause" ended up totally absorbing him. In any case, you make a fair point about the RPing. Maybe I can find a way to look past the "Goddamnit Anders!" factor on my third playthrough, which will probably be a rivalmance (since my first Hawke achieved full friendship with him). I'm gonna try Sebastian for now in my second playthrough - will avoid the perviest flirt and hope for the best. (Really, Hawke sounds like she's a nasty predator at some points. Poor Sebastian! Hawke's lines with Anders and Fenris are so much sweeter.)

[Ryzaki]

@Estelindis: Better or worse than cougar Shepard with Jacob?

[Estelindis]

Geesh! Equivalent in content, but for me it comes across as worse because it's in the context of a consecrated brother of the chantry who Hawke is trying to seduce away from his vows, and not for other vows either, just a night in the sack! So sleazy. :-(

Honestly, I would have been able to push past the pervy line for Jacob if I'd wanted to romance him, but my FemShep is waiting for Kaidan and I'm not getting the romance achievement for ME2 until after ME3 comes out. All that talk of Bioware collecting data and making decisions about how to design their next games on that basis has made me paranoid! I want to show them my membership of a certain player group in this way. But, honestly, apart from FemShep's cougar line and the "priiiize" scene, it looks like a sweet enough romance based on YouTube. Sebastian, from what I've heard, isn't even a full romance at all. Maybe I should wait for modding, but I might be waiting a long time...

[Nadia]

Jaulen wrote...

@Nadia....I find it odd that for a RPG people aren't getting into the spirit of it and playing the relationships as their Hawke would...

I'm having (and have had) a lot of fun in the DA universe so far playing a Warden/Champion totally against my type.

And I'd agree with another poster, the Seb flirt lines are....creepy.

Thanks for your comment, I didn't know if what I wrote makes any sense (mostly because I really need some more practice in speaking and writing in english:) ). I did try to play a Warden and Champion against my type while ago and it was fun too, but even in the game I found that there are some things I cannot do! (like f.ex. killing Connor or killing Anders) when I did them I had to load game immediately because it made me fell sad and evil  it's probably stupid and childish, but also sort of funny to experience. 

My type of character is always good and diplomatic - these are my first playthroughs of DAO and DA2 as mages, second ones are humorous/sarcastic/more selfish rogues - sometimes I have more fun playing them, but when I tried to be aggressive and evil it's just to see a little different cutscenes (and see how it is to play as warrior) - I can't relate in any way to my character, it takes some fun out of it.

[Carmen_Willow]

@Nadia

I cannot do certain things, either. I cannot slaughter the Dalish in DA:O. I cannot give Fenris to Denarius. I can't even agree to kill Thrask. There are some things that are just too much to do, even in fantasy for me. I don't play a game to feel sick to my stomach at an in-game decision. The game isn't fun anymore at that point.

I won't romance Anders again (rivalmance) because his descent into his obsession just cuts too close to reality. It's great writing, but it's too real for my taste. I romanced him my very first game (friendmance) and didn't again until the rivalmance. It was bad enough when he lied to me and betrayed me to do what he wanted to do. I've seen real people do the same thing over their own personal obessions. I don't need that sort of feeling in a game. I've seen it in real life.

It was even worse when I used every argument the game allowed me to try and stop him and he still would not stop. That's too real for me. Twice is enough. I want to feel good about my pixelated romances. I don't get that with Anders.

Give me the psycho mage-hating elf who at least loves me enough to stand by my side even when he doesn't agree with my decision.

[Darth Death]

You got passion, that's certain. The way you talk about yourself & Ander's relationship, it almost seems... Real.

Modifié par Darth Death, 15 décembre 2011 - 02:57 .

[sylvanaerie]

Anders used to frustrate the hell out of me. I've never romanced him, I just can't bring myself to do it. He's too much of a train wreck for me to want to. I loved him in DA:OA (as a friend - I never had any desire to romance him, though Nate is a horse of a different color...) but he's too different in DA2 (different face - even modding it didn't help, different voice, mostly humorless fanatic and a hypocrit to boot). Once in a while I see hints of the old Anders, but not enough to make me like him.

Now I rival him, and play out his story to the bitter end and it makes so much more sense than friending him to me.  I actually gained new respect for the writing, and the character and at least don't hate him as much as I did. As a friend I always felt I failed Anders, by supporting him, he just seemed to allow Vengeance to take over in a way that smacks of Vengeance "pulling the puppet strings" as Alric does when he tranquils the mages. At least if you rival him, he seems to try to hold on more to who he is.

As a rival, at least I can get a "I forgive you line" in before killing him, and it makes for a much more powerful scene. And yes, I DO forgive him because he never intended any of that and it's not Anders but Vengeance doing the big bad at the end. (At least that's what i tell myself, the alternative I don't want to contemplate) And yes, I kill him every game. I feel so sorry for him and his struggle to maintain a sense of self (not his mages vs templars 'cause' which, frankly annoys me after a dozen playthroughs) it's the last kindness I can do him before going to clean up his mess.

And I usually side mages at the end. I figure he was willing to give his life for his cause I'd carry it through. I've only sided Templars for curiousity's sake twice, to see how the ending differs (with a Templar Carver - what a disappointment ) and to see Circle Bethany's scenes in a templar run (much better than Carver's scenes on the same run.  You get to protect baby sister from the Psycho K-Commander).  Merrydeath has WWWWAAAAYYYY too much crazy going on for me to even see her side of the arguments.  Rivaling Anders and supporting the mages isn't easy, but with timing it can be done.

Hell, none of the LI's in DA2 are a paragon of stable.  Fenris and Anders are two sides of the same coin, though I can tolerate Fenris more since he's Fenris, not Anders+1.  And Fenris mellows (on a friendmance, never seen a rivalmance, and not sure I want to).  Merrill smashes the mirror finally if you rival her (and you don't HAVE to kill the clan, though Marethari is lost regardless) though it's a long drawn out process to reach that point.  Isabella sparks a holy war in Kirkwall by skipping off with the book (though if she likes/respects you enough she comes back). 

I suppose I like the other romances better mostly because you feel you CAN make a difference in their lives, making them better people.  Anders unfortunately does what he does regardless of what you are to him.  This is not a fault of the character, this is plot driven stuff, but it's still too excrutiating to watch, and I just can't bring myself to romance him knowing what will happen.

If I could, I'd romance Varric, he and Aveline seem to have the least amount of "Crazy" going on in their lives.

I've given up on a Nathaniel as a romance since Bioware chose to 'handwave' Anders return from Awakenings (in case he was dead).  Since Nathaniel might be executed by a particularly brutal/vengeful Warden, he could in theory actually BE dead, not just presumed so.  I guess I can understand that, they wanted to avoid too much handwaving.

Maybe we'll have an Orlais setting in DA3.  And since Teagan seems to be showing up a lot more in regards to Orlais stuff (he mentions it in King Alistair's cameo, and at the party in MotA), maybe we will finally get the Bannhammer!And it would be nice to have a romance in game that isn't with someone who is nucking futs.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 17 décembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[elarem]

I'm on my second play through which was going to be the Anders romance (plan was first Fenris, second Anders, and third Merrill) - but I can't. I don't like the character enough to romance him, even with the option of killing him in Act 3.

As far as I'm concerned Anders corrupted Justice to create Vengeance, and it is Anders' will alone that causes the meltdown.

Reading other peoples' feelings about Anders I realize that I am probably missing out by not doing his romance but then I play games to enjoy them not really to role play a character completely at odds with myself. (Had enough trouble playing renegade in ME universe, although using a male character isn't so much of a problem anymore.)

[Bekkael]

sylvanaerie wrote...

If I could, I'd romance Varric, he and Aveline seem to have the least amount of "Crazy" going on in their lives.

I'm convinced it's only because they aren't romance options, that they remain level-headed and interesting. DA romances seem to generally get smashed with the FUBAR hammer, one way or another.

[The Librarian]

Anders was ok in Awakening. But in DA2 I hate him <_____< I don't bloody want him in my team and I wish that I could kill him much earlier than the end D:
He is shabby, ugly, obsessed, an abomination and a bloody terrorist... I can't understand why any one would want their Hawke to romance him *shudders*

[sylvanaerie]

Bekkael wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

If I could, I'd romance Varric, he and Aveline seem to have the least amount of "Crazy" going on in their lives.

I'm convinced it's only because they aren't romance options, that they remain level-headed and interesting. DA romances seem to generally get smashed with the FUBAR hammer, one way or another.

QFT!

[Berandon]

I wanted to slap Anders after he did what he did in part 3, especially after I tried hard to go the diplomatic route.

But the way he was written made me let him live and stay in the party. (friendmance)

[mrs_anomaly]

I absolutely understand why you would have an issue with Anders and his rather rapid decline into morose self sabotage../sigh. I grew up in a household with a very mentally ill father and I had an interesting childhood because of this to say the least lol!
Now- I easily find myself immersed in this type of game and when I read books, but I still find it difficult, like others to make choices that would ultimately be against my core beliefs or my real personality.
I'm only on my second playthrough and I'm romancing Fenris because I figured that I should "get it over with" lol.
I really wanted to play this game and romance the hell out of Anders- I saw numerous youtubes about him and I just can't help it, I'm attracted to his romantic and unbalanced ways. I wanted him to get better, I wanted to reason with him, I was so upset that I couldn't avert him from disaster. I had to create my own rationale to remain with him or I couldn't even play the romance through and finally I reached a point where, yeah, I admitted to myself I'd have to be mentally bent also to just say "baby yes, I'll run into the sunset with you" after he blew the chantry apart. I just couldn't break up with him- I wanted to hate him, but I couldn't- I knew he was wrong even though he did it for the right reasons but I couldn't leave him and I'll never ever be able to kill him for it. I just cannot. Just like I'll never ever give Danarius Fenris. I realized playing this that for maybe, IRL, and in DA2, I will definitely go down with my people. I'll do it. Maybe I'm a sucker for love and romance and I want to see justice badly- ah well.
I felt like we were Thedas Bonnie and Clyde, yeah, we're going to run away together!!!
So idk, it's wrong probably for me to forgive Anders, but I just can't leave him alone in his pain and suffering. A lot of people complained about the change in his character between Awakening and DA2 but all of that is very justified since he's been sharing himself with Justice I think- and things weigh on him heavily. If I put myself in his shoes, I would never outright condone terrorism, but I could definitely understand why he becomes morose and is Mr. Activist Walking. It makes sense to me. But it's tragic, and I can handle that, even though I'm practically dying for a HEA from Bioware. (Can I please pretty please have that with Kaidan? lol)

Modifié par mrs_anomaly, 23 décembre 2011 - 02:58 .

[Carmen_Willow]

mrs_anomaly wrote...

I absolutely understand why you would have an issue with Anders and his rather rapid decline into morose self sabotage...../....So idk, it's wrong probably for me to forgive Anders, but I just can't leave him alone in his pain and suffering. A lot of people complained about the change in his character between Awakening and DA2 but all of that is very justified since he's been sharing himself with Justice I think- and things weigh on him heavily. If I put myself in his shoes, I would never outright condone terrorism, but I could definitely understand why he becomes morose and is Mr. Activist Walking. It makes sense to me. But it's tragic, and I can handle that, even though I'm practically dying for a HEA from Bioware. (Can I please pretty please have that with Kaidan? lol)

In my friendmance I didn't kill him because I hated him.  It was because Justice demanded it.  The balance had to be restored and the scales of Justice equalized. He destroyed the lives of more people than just those in the Chantry with that bomb. All the people who would be caught up in the war, all the children who would be orphaned, all of of the chaos that he started, he began it all. One must judge an action by its result. Anders deliberately started a way with all the death and destruction it entails. Love him or not it had to be redressed.  I cried as I did it, but it had to be done. 

There are two things in human nature that are true across all boundaries of race, ethnic origin etc.,  1) Be kind to your kin group and less kind to the out group; and 2) ****** for tat.  An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is translated in later faiths as treating others as you want to be treated, but it is the same concept.  If someone treats you well, treat them well.  If someone kills your sister, kill them.  Blood for blood.

Most nations do it in a more civilized way....trials and appeals and proof and testimony, But whether the offender pays with his/her life immediately or by having it wasted behind bars, he/she pays.  It is a basic human justice to demand ****** for tat.

Captain Kirk, in one of the novels, claims that the two basic human games are chess and poker.  I would add that ****** for tat is more basic still. Even/steven.

Even Anders admits that it is only justice to execute him.   It wasn't his death that keeps me from romancing him.  It is that his slide into obsession is a little too real for me. Been there, watched that, bought the T-shirt and the Soundtrack.  Don't need to do it again.

[mrs_anomaly]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

I absolutely understand why you would have an issue with Anders and his rather rapid decline into morose self sabotage...../....So idk, it's wrong probably for me to forgive Anders, but I just can't leave him alone in his pain and suffering. A lot of people complained about the change in his character between Awakening and DA2 but all of that is very justified since he's been sharing himself with Justice I think- and things weigh on him heavily. If I put myself in his shoes, I would never outright condone terrorism, but I could definitely understand why he becomes morose and is Mr. Activist Walking. It makes sense to me. But it's tragic, and I can handle that, even though I'm practically dying for a HEA from Bioware. (Can I please pretty please have that with Kaidan? lol)

In my friendmance I didn't kill him because I hated him.  It was because Justice demanded it.  The balance had to be restored and the scales of Justice equalized. He destroyed the lives of more people than just those in the Chantry with that bomb. All the people who would be caught up in the war, all the children who would be orphaned, all of of the chaos that he started, he began it all. One must judge an action by its result. Anders deliberately started a way with all the death and destruction it entails. Love him or not it had to be redressed.  I cried as I did it, but it had to be done. 

There are two things in human nature that are true across all boundaries of race, ethnic origin etc.,  1) Be kind to your kin group and less kind to the out group; and 2) ****** for tat.  An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is translated in later faiths as treating others as you want to be treated, but it is the same concept.  If someone treats you well, treat them well.  If someone kills your sister, kill them.  Blood for blood.

Most nations do it in a more civilized way....trials and appeals and proof and testimony, But whether the offender pays with his/her life immediately or by having it wasted behind bars, he/she pays.  It is a basic human justice to demand ****** for tat.

Captain Kirk, in one of the novels, claims that the two basic human games are chess and poker.  I would add that ****** for tat is more basic still. Even/steven.

Even Anders admits that it is only justice to execute him.   It wasn't his death that keeps me from romancing him.  It is that his slide into obsession is a little too real for me. Been there, watched that, bought the T-shirt and the Soundtrack.  Don't need to do it again.

I guess I really RPG'ed my romance with Anders to the hilt, because, my Hawke at that point didn't care so much about ulimate and superior justice in the world after his horrendous act but how to move with the love of my DA2 life and ride into the sunset. I'll probably do that over and over again. I'm doing my second play through with a Fenris friendmance and while I like him, adore him, I don't have the same level of adoration that I have for Anders.

[Carmen_Willow]

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

I absolutely understand why you would have an issue with Anders and his rather rapid decline into morose self sabotage...../....So idk, it's wrong probably for me to forgive Anders, but I just can't leave him alone in his pain and suffering. A lot of people complained about the change in his character between Awakening and DA2 but all of that is very justified since he's been sharing himself with Justice I think- and things weigh on him heavily. If I put myself in his shoes, I would never outright condone terrorism, but I could definitely understand why he becomes morose and is Mr. Activist Walking. It makes sense to me. But it's tragic, and I can handle that, even though I'm practically dying for a HEA from Bioware. (Can I please pretty please have that with Kaidan? lol)

In my friendmance I didn't kill him because I hated him.  It was because Justice demanded it.  The balance had to be restored and the scales of Justice equalized. ....Even Anders admits that it is only justice to execute him.   It wasn't his death that keeps me from romancing him.  It is that his slide into obsession is a little too real for me. Been there, watched that, bought the T-shirt and the Soundtrack.  Don't need to do it again.

I guess I really RPG'ed my romance with Anders to the hilt, because, my Hawke at that point didn't care so much about ulimate and superior justice in the world after his horrendous act but how to move with the love of my DA2 life and ride into the sunset. I'll probably do that over and over again. I'm doing my second play through with a Fenris friendmance and while I like him, adore him, I don't have the same level of adoration that I have for Anders.

Aside from redressing the balance, I could envision the next mass destruction attack that "Justice" would demand of Anders, and the next and the next (after the first one, it gets pretty easy).  You'd end up being just like the Magistrate; you'd desperately try to keep your loved one from murdering, but he'd always figure out a way.  How many bombs would Anders manage to deploy before you finally had to resort to the murder knife just to stop the bloodshed?  . 

Anders had become a walking weapon, just like Fenris had always predicted regarding pissed off mages.  He wouldn't stop.  Think of how energized he is when you let him live.  He's already thinking up the next attack.  He wants more Chantry blood and never mind whoever else gets in the way. Already, he's beginning to like it: the feeling of power, the adrenaline rush, all of it.   

You love him; but how much will you let him do before you say, "enough."

[mrs_anomaly]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

I absolutely understand why you would have an issue with Anders and his rather rapid decline into morose self sabotage...../....So idk, it's wrong probably for me to forgive Anders, but I just can't leave him alone in his pain and suffering. A lot of people complained about the change in his character between Awakening and DA2 but all of that is very justified since he's been sharing himself with Justice I think- and things weigh on him heavily. If I put myself in his shoes, I would never outright condone terrorism, but I could definitely understand why he becomes morose and is Mr. Activist Walking. It makes sense to me. But it's tragic, and I can handle that, even though I'm practically dying for a HEA from Bioware. (Can I please pretty please have that with Kaidan? lol)

In my friendmance I didn't kill him because I hated him.  It was because Justice demanded it.  The balance had to be restored and the scales of Justice equalized. ....Even Anders admits that it is only justice to execute him.   It wasn't his death that keeps me from romancing him.  It is that his slide into obsession is a little too real for me. Been there, watched that, bought the T-shirt and the Soundtrack.  Don't need to do it again.

I guess I really RPG'ed my romance with Anders to the hilt, because, my Hawke at that point didn't care so much about ulimate and superior justice in the world after his horrendous act but how to move with the love of my DA2 life and ride into the sunset. I'll probably do that over and over again. I'm doing my second play through with a Fenris friendmance and while I like him, adore him, I don't have the same level of adoration that I have for Anders.

Aside from redressing the balance, I could envision the next mass destruction attack that "Justice" would demand of Anders, and the next and the next (after the first one, it gets pretty easy).  You'd end up being just like the Magistrate; you'd desperately try to keep your loved one from murdering, but he'd always figure out a way.  How many bombs would Anders manage to deploy before you finally had to resort to the murder knife just to stop the bloodshed?  . 

Anders had become a walking weapon, just like Fenris had always predicted regarding pissed off mages.  He wouldn't stop.  Think of how energized he is when you let him live.  He's already thinking up the next attack.  He wants more Chantry blood and never mind whoever else gets in the way. Already, he's beginning to like it: the feeling of power, the adrenaline rush, all of it.   

You love him; but how much will you let him do before you say, "enough."

Given that the end of DA2 insinuates a war ensuing between the Templars and the mages (regardless of any choice you've made) I can see my Anders and I heading into a very happy sunset.  Why? Because if he in fact ends up having more Justice fits, I can just point him to the next hot spot mob skirmish to clean it out his system and have make up sex afterwards.
:innocent:

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I dumped Anders after one playthrough because after all the coddling and talking and whatevers, I have to say I was shocked by his action at the end. I was going "Anders you ^$%$#@!!!"    and killed him. I was happy booting him off in every playthrough.

[gaurdian9sunshine]

 When I first placed DA:OA, I loved Anders. I loved how scarcastic and witty and selfish he was. He hid behind that to not show how angry he really was. He couldn't show that side of himself because the templars might then be able to prove that he was dangerous and execute him. He reminded me a lot of myself. When I helped him try to get away from the templars grasp by killing those two templars, I thought that in itself would bring them down on the Wardens but  it didn't. I found out that Anders was going to be a companion again in DA:2 and I was excited because I really liked his character in awakenings. He went from hiding all his anger and fustrations and how he was really feeling to the Anders with a spirit of Justice inside of him. The part of Anders that he hid ended up being what defined Justice: angry. No patience or give. No mercy.
Maybe its just the fact that I feel connected to him, or the fact that he is so flawed and that in itself makes him feel real, or maybe even because he goes from hating Hawke to loving him or her. I have never felt so strongly about a character before. Yes, he blew up the chantry and a lot of innocent people die and Hawke may have even helped with. He tried for so long to see a goal achieved without having to do this. He thought of every way rather than blow up the chantry, but there was no other way. After he accepted Justice's deal, he matured so much in such a short time, but he was still who he was before Justice: scarcastic, witty and selfish. 
Dating Anders is an emotional roller coaster ride. He starts out saying stay away from me, I will hurt you. Even in the very beginning you can tell he cares for Hawke and then the he said "I would drown us in blood to keep you safe," 
in act 2. He does betray your trust at the end of act 3, and yes it is painful both to keep him with you or to execute him. 

Modifié par gaurdian9sunshine, 14 janvier 2012 - 09:25 .

[vixvicco]

Even though I really dislike him, I can't help thinking despite everything, he's the best romantic choice, and on the opposite side of things, if I could've romanced Sebastian, I so would've. Then maybe he would've been my best choice. But I understand that, he did get a bit extreme. He was sweet though.