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Creator vision collides with buyer conceit in ME3.


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#1
InvincibleHero

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I am all for creator vision and have supported BW and other creators for the simple reason they created the world and have a right to have what they envisage to come to fruition. If you've never created anything then maybe you cannot understand. I can understand somewhat people claiming a partial ownership of Shepard but not Garrus, not Tali, and not Zaeed or any of the other characters in the game. We play as shepard so there is some investment into the character. All our relationships with the others are exactly how BW wants it and some think they should have a bigger voice in that.

Some go as far as to proclaim BW shouldn't kill any of their creations and if they do they might not buy the game or say death weakens the story as a lame device and so on. Being for creator freedom, I support BW in whatever life or death decisions they want to place in the game. If Garrus dies make it heroic in say saving Shepard as the last chance for the galaxy's salvation. I will appreciate the character more because he made the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good. To say Garrus shouldn't die because I like the character would be selfish and I don't own Garrus anyway. Now, it could be anyone but I do think death on your squad should be limited to one or maybe two. Now if an ex-sqauaddie is a tempory for just a mission or two then any expectation of their survival should be zero. If they want to script deaths of any of them to give the story impact then BW should be free to do so. I can't understand the vitriol people spew at people supporting the preposition that BW should kill some people close to Shepard. 

People think since they buy the game they should have a say in the product. That is silly. Did you demand the same of the company that made your TV or microwave oven or toothbrush? Likely not. Just because they make a video game for our entertainment does not give one a right to make demands of BW to make things the way they want. In fact, just as many people are likely to have an opinion in direct opposition to theirs. So who should they listen to? They should do what they want and have planned to do. BW should make the story they want and make the character decisions that they want because it is their property. Our only say should be whether we liked the finished product and whether our entertainment dollars were well-spent. Sure we can discuss the minutae of the game and that is fun and some things are rightly criticized. However, it is just conceited to demand BW make it they way any single user wants.

For the record, I am fine with scripted deaths beyond my control simply because you can't change movies or books either. I am fine with a Virmire type dillema as in who to risk and having to deal with the consequences of the decision. I am fine with deaths that result from Shepard's failures or even just random chance. Sometimes everyone comes upon no-win scenarios and why should Shepard always be blessed with the golden ticket aka blue text. Maybe Grunt has to sacrifice himself for the squad and mission to continue. I would not like it if the love interest of my Shepard dies, but like real life we don't often get to make the choice. Things happen beyond our control so why should a video game be different.

I just have one request to make the death if it comes special and make it have meaning in the story. I want my Shepard to be able to talk about it with others and remember good times with the former squadmate or even NPC that was important to the story. I hope we are given a chance to memorialize them in some way. Maybe the council granting posthumus honors that Shepard attends at the end. The death of people Shepard knows can have a profound impact on the game if people would let BW work their magic. BW make ME3 memorable. Image IPB

#2
WizenSlinky0

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Can of worms?

Been opened.

#3
JeffZero

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I agree.

#4
Sethan_1

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Works for me.

#5
Codyacsmith

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Hah.

#6
onelifecrisis

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Yeah, BW should have ownership as long as they don't **** it up!!! Oh wait...

Edit: That was meant to be a "durr I'm stoopid" joke, not a comment on BW's past performance.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:37 .


#7
JeffZero

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onelifecrisis wrote...

Yeah, BW should have ownership as long as they don't **** it up!!! Oh wait...


Haven't screwed it up yet for me. >_>

#8
Kaiser Shepard

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Mighty fine OP.

#9
onelifecrisis

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JeffZero wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Yeah, BW should have ownership as long as they don't **** it up!!! Oh wait...


Haven't screwed it up yet for me. >_>


Damn, you beat me to the edit button!

I realised (too late) that my post could be taken that way...

#10
JeffZero

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onelifecrisis wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Yeah, BW should have ownership as long as they don't **** it up!!! Oh wait...


Haven't screwed it up yet for me. >_>


Damn, you beat me to the edit button!

I realised (too late) that my post could be taken that way...


LOL. My bad.

#11
Not the Droid

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My only disagreement is the consumer has no say they do (see crystal pepsi hehe) In the long run they sure do as its the money that talks. Other than that I think you are pretty dead on.
I vowed not to get into the death o people thing but Personally think they killed off shepard once to quick allready, so now may need to resort to killing him again or having to off the most loved of his crew for the same impact. (sigh see what you made me do )

Still I sure do not know how its gonna go, and I bet they are actually gonna pull this off

#12
onelifecrisis

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JeffZero wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Yeah, BW should have ownership as long as they don't **** it up!!! Oh wait...


Haven't screwed it up yet for me. >_>


Damn, you beat me to the edit button!

I realised (too late) that my post could be taken that way...


LOL. My bad.


Given the amount of time I spend ****ing about BW I can hardly blame you. ;)

#13
wizardryforever

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I agree with this wholeheartedly.  As an amateur writer of sorts, I can definitely empathize with the devs on this one.  You need to stay true to your original vision, and any changes that are made need to have just as much enthusiasm as the original.  If they don't, they feel tacked on or clash with the rest of it.  Try to anticipate what your consumers will appreciate the most, and cultivate your vision thereof. 

I think people heap too much criticism on Bioware.  They are human and make mistakes like the rest of us, even with the amount of time and money they have.  They also may have very different tastes on what fits the universe they have created than you do.  Remember that it is their intellectual property, and if you think you can do better, there's always fanfic.

#14
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Actually, we don't have ownership over anything, including Shepard. BioWare could just forcibly kill him off if they wanted to as well.

#15
AdmiralCheez

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Hell, I'm already on board for the Collector's Edition and the damn thing's mostly finished already, so at this point I'm just waiting to either be wowed or let down. Evidence so far points to wowage.

I'm no writer, nor a member of the dev team, but I can still talk about what I like and what I don't like. I don't expect BW to cater to me exclusively, and I'm pretty sure I will love ME3 regardless, but when I make a thread about "I would like X in ME3," it's just stating my opinion. I fully realize I have no control--it's just harmlessly throwing my tastes out there.

It's only a problem when certain pinheads come storming in and say my tastes are stupid.

#16
onelifecrisis

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

It's only a problem when certain pinheads come storming in and say my tastes are stupid.


Your tastes are stupid.

Why is it I can NEVER resist doing that? ^_^

#17
DiebytheSword

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Hell, I'm already on board for the Collector's Edition and the damn thing's mostly finished already, so at this point I'm just waiting to either be wowed or let down. Evidence so far points to wowage.

I'm no writer, nor a member of the dev team, but I can still talk about what I like and what I don't like. I don't expect BW to cater to me exclusively, and I'm pretty sure I will love ME3 regardless, but when I make a thread about "I would like X in ME3," it's just stating my opinion. I fully realize I have no control--it's just harmlessly throwing my tastes out there.

It's only a problem when certain pinheads come storming in and say my tastes are stupid.


Here, here.  Everyone should have their say and opinion, Bioware should have the ultimate decision, and we should be able to vote with our wallets.  Its a damn fine system, its worked for us so far.  Let's keep it rolling.

#18
WizenSlinky0

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

It's only a problem when certain pinheads come storming in and say my tastes are stupid.


My tastes are stupid!

...wait, I think I screwed this joke up somewhere.

#19
BeefoTheBold

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Um, yeah. People who buy the game, or MAY buy the game, SHOULD have some say in the final product.

Otherwise less people buy the game. Pretty simple concept. Don't create a product that people want, and people don't buy it.

#20
javierabegazo

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*sighs*

#21
onelifecrisis

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

Um, yeah. People who buy the game, or MAY buy the game, SHOULD have some say in the final product.

Otherwise less people buy the game. Pretty simple concept. Don't create a product that people want, and people don't buy it.


Well, strickly speaking, what the consumers have a say in is whether similar products and/or other products from the same people get made in the future. Which is not the same thing.

#22
onelifecrisis

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javierabegazo wrote...

*sighs*


You love it really.

#23
Savber100

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

Um, yeah. People who buy the game, or MAY buy the game, SHOULD have some say in the final product.

Otherwise less people buy the game. Pretty simple concept. Don't create a product that people want, and people don't buy it.


Problem is that one can not speak for all and neither can 50 speak for a thousand. One might want something while the others might want something else entirely. In the end, the idea of devs listening to fans is nice but can only go so far as devs try to juggle the demands of thousands and the vocal minority. 

#24
BeefoTheBold

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Savber100 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Um, yeah. People who buy the game, or MAY buy the game, SHOULD have some say in the final product.

Otherwise less people buy the game. Pretty simple concept. Don't create a product that people want, and people don't buy it.


Problem is that one can not speak for all and neither can 50 speak for a thousand. One might want something while the others might want something else entirely. In the end, the idea of devs listening to fans is nice but can only go so far as devs try to juggle the demands of thousands and the vocal minority. 


Then shut down the forum.

If this place isn't considered a representative sample and/or useful feedback for Bioware to consider, then what's the point of having it?

Yes, I acknowledge that there's some question on whether the feedback or posts that fans make here is represenatative of the overall Bioware fanbase. But what I disagree with is the general concept that Bioware should just create whatever the hell they want and not listen to feedback PERIOD.

Whether this forum is the "right" way to correct feedback is certainly debateable. Whether or not Bioware SHOULD listen to it seems somewhat LESS debateable.

#25
Esbatty

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What about the days where there wasn't an online? When game developers made whatever the hell they wanted/higher ups wanted? Ya know, the games we/parents bought because it looked fun or interesting?