194 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

[nitefyre410]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

another poster said elsewhere...
Choices like this allow us to explore issues of ethics, duty, and even ourselves

Why on earth would I want that sort of thing from a computer game, which is supposed to be a distraction from the burdens of life? 

 


Well to be fair there  are times  when I do enjoy a good story the  poses some serious ethical questions, makes me think about things a from a different POV, challenges my own POV.   Deus Ex:Human Revolution and Catherine are two recent  examples  but I also  know not all things  in entertainment need of have some deeper meaning and  the secert of life. Sometimes I just want to blow stuff up, with snappy  banter, a big damn heroes moment,  some Pure Awesome and ride off into the sunset.

[Arcadian Legend]

Oh man, if Zeel were here, he'd attempt to rip this thread and the OP apart. I'm happy with the direction ME3 is going in right now to be honest.

Modifié par DarkRiku7, 24 octobre 2011 - 03:31 .

[onelifecrisis]

DarkRiku7 wrote...

Oh man, if Zeel were here, he'd rip this thread and the OP apart.

I'm not sure how that makes this thread any different to all the other threads. 

[Arcadian Legend]

onelifecrisis wrote...

DarkRiku7 wrote...

Oh man, if Zeel were here, he'd rip this thread and the OP apart.

I'm not sure how that makes this thread any different to all the other threads. 

It just seems the perfect setup for him, moreso than other topics.

[Sgt Stryker]

DarkRiku7 wrote...

Oh man, if Zeel were here, he'd rip this thread and the OP apart. I'm happy with the direction ME3 is going in right now to be honest.

Ha, you make it sound like Zeely can actually win an argument. Ha.

[Bekkael]

jeweledleah wrote...

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

Very true. I will never understand why some people want to choose suffering in a video game over triumph, when we hope for the exact opposite in real life. The stories I grew up reading were usually about heroes overcoming impossible odds to emerge victorious. If they had been full of significant character death, they wouldn't have been stories I read over and over. Call me crazy, but if I smash my thumb with a hammer, I'm not eager to repeat the experience. For RPing video games, I want an entire range of endings, which includes a happy, euphoric, bad-ass hero option. A RPG should have a buffet of options, as that's what makes it appealing to so many.

For the masochistic crowd, I hope you get the terrible ending with all the suffering and pain you desire...except the sadistic side of me really hopes you end up with rainbows and bunnies.

[Luigitornado]

jeweledleah wrote...

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

No. You can't have hope without tragedy. 

Modifié par Luigitornado, 24 octobre 2011 - 04:54 .

[DiebytheSword]

Luigitornado wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

No. You can't have hope without tragedy. 

The same is true in reverse. Trajedy requires a state of normalcy, perfection as it were, to create the possibility of disappointment.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 24 octobre 2011 - 04:59 .

[Luigitornado]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

No. You can't have hope without tragedy. 

The same is true in reverse. Trajedy requires a state of normalcy, perfection as it were, to create the possibility of disappointment.

Right so a balance needs to be struck. Kill Garus, Shepard saves the galaxy = awesomesauce. 

[Varen Spectre]

Well, I am not sure if you are talking solely about potential deaths of squadmates and potential reactions of respective fanbases to them or you mean more general relationship between developers and consumers...

Either way, I would have to mostly disagree. Despite the fact that I practically never discuss the story myself.

1. Firstly, take a look at your post:

InvincibleHero wrote...

I just have one request to make the death if it comes special and make it have meaning in the story. I want my Shepard to be able to talk about it with others and remember good times with the former squadmate or even NPC that was important to the story. I hope we are given a chance to memorialize them in some way. Maybe the council granting posthumus honors that Shepard attends at the end.

^ See? It is so easy to start requesting something from a developer of your favorite game. Even you could not resist. Though, to be fair, your request is very reasonable and humble by my (and based on reactions here, not only my) standards.

I think that posting personal opinions, feedback, proposals and ideas related to the games, to which the gaming forum is supposed to be dedicated, is in the very nature of that forum. Asking people to restrict their posts only to games, that have already been released and refrain from posting proposals is not only unrealistic, but can be detrimental to both, the forum activity (ME3 forum seems to be the currently most active forum) and game development (see point 2.).

I agree that Bioware does not have to fulfil our wishes (and sometimes even can't - due to their contradicting nature or resource intensity), but that should not stop people from expressing their opinions and submitting their ideas. What can't be done now, might be possible in the future.

Not to mention that gaming forum is a perfect platform to confront own preferences with desires of others. So far, I haven't heard about better tool which would allow such indepth discussions. Tweets can have only 140 characters and Facebook lacks any decent structure.

And last but not least, excessively demanding, rude or annoying posts can always be confronted with site rules and properly moderated.

2. Secondly, I have no doubts that developers from Bioware are very talented and creative people, but even they can run out of ideas. Sometimes even fans can come in handy.

http://twitter.com/#...554847183568896: Our games get better because of your opinions and feedback. Keep them coming as we shape some of our reveals of ME3.

https://twitter.com/...118170627194880: Hey Infiltrator players, what powers do you want/things you want improved for the Infiltrator class in ME3? I'd love to hear your thoughts!

And those are examples when developers recognised or asked for ideas. I am convinced that there are many unknown instances when ideas or requests posted here were utilised in the games without us even knowing about it. Simply put, more people can come up with more ideas and even if the average quality decreases with increasing number of proposals or demands, I do not see it as a problem, because the number of good ideas grows as well. And that is what matters.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, TL DR: I am convinced that discouraging people from posting their proposals, ideas, requests, etc. is a bad idea that goes against the purpose of the forum itself. If you disagree with some of them, I encourage you to contest them, voice your own opinion on the issue or even report them if you think, that they violate the forum policy... But trying to restrict people on the assumption that their demands go too far has never lead to anything good. Oh, and if you like their games, I think you should trust Bioware more. They know what they are doing and would most likely pick only useful ideas. 

[RyuujinZERO]

Is nobody here familiar with the concept of tragedy?

It's a style of writing with ancient roots dating back to the Ancient Greeks and beyond and extending to modern times, including some very famous plays such a Hamlet, Macbeth, Romeo and Juliet (Heck it was one of Shakespeares best areas).

There's nothing masochistic to it. It's saying that Bioware should keep their literary styles open and not worry themselves about upsetting the fans.



...also is nobody here familiar with the concept of Sinking Ships? 

[The Spamming Troll]

there isnt a single thing more ridiculous then being resurrected from the dead so whatever bioware does tack on stupidly in ME3, im glad ME2 prepared me for it.

[Bostur]

Great point Varen.

It should be possible to discuss games and stories, without it being interpreted as demands. We discuss the things that we are enthusiastic about, it's human nature.

Imagine seeing the greatest movie ever made, but not being able to talk about it. That would be the most cruel form of torture I can imagine.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Luigitornado wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

No. You can't have hope without tragedy. 

I hear you can't have chocolate without vanilla, too.  [/sarcasm]

[Killjoy Cutter]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Is nobody here familiar with the concept of tragedy?

It's a style of writing with ancient roots dating back to the Ancient Greeks and beyond and extending to modern times, including some very famous plays such a Hamlet, Macbeth, Romeo and Juliet (Heck it was one of Shakespeares best areas).

There's nothing masochistic to it. It's saying that Bioware should keep their literary styles open and not worry themselves about upsetting the fans.



...also is nobody here familiar with the concept of Sinking Ships? 

Tragedy?  Not what I want from my distractions.

Sinking Ships?  The tears fuel me.

[Wannabe_Overlord]

OP.

I play Super Robot Wars.

Your scripted deaths be damned, I'm saving the unsaveable!

[Bekkael]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Is nobody here familiar with the concept of tragedy?

It's a style of writing with ancient roots dating back to the Ancient Greeks and beyond and extending to modern times, including some very famous plays such a Hamlet, Macbeth, Romeo and Juliet (Heck it was one of Shakespeares best areas).

There's nothing masochistic to it. It's saying that Bioware should keep their literary styles open and not worry themselves about upsetting the fans.



...also is nobody here familiar with the concept of Sinking Ships? 

Very familiar with tragedy, and I never read any such tales for pleasure. I'm sorry, but I don't want my video game hobby to be undiluted misery. Many others feel the same, which is why an array of choices would please many palates.

Also, I don't think the "give us a happyish ending" crowd are opposed to some tragedy. Just not an overwhelming dose that leads to the desire to vomit rather than praise BioWare and replay the game to try out other endings.

That said, I do trust BioWare to do a wonderful job with ME3, and I'm sure I will enjoy the whole experience regardless of the endgame.

[Slayer299]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Is nobody here familiar with the concept of tragedy?

It's a style of writing with ancient roots dating back to the Ancient Greeks and beyond and extending to modern times, including some very famous plays such a Hamlet, Macbeth, Romeo and Juliet (Heck it was one of Shakespeares best areas).

There's nothing masochistic to it. It's saying that Bioware should keep their literary styles open and not worry themselves about upsetting the fans.



...also is nobody here familiar with the concept of Sinking Ships? 

Tragedy is something people constantly deal with in their everyday lives whether it is directly or indirectly. I do not think anyone is against loss in ME verse for Shepard, it is the idea of making the ending a tragic and miserable one that cannot be avoided that is the issue. Why play a game when the ending is misery/death/tragedy?

Hamlet, Macbeth and R&J are great plays, but I know that I don't read them on a regular basis either because they are *depressing* as hell!!

[jeweledleah]

Luigitornado wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

No. You can't have hope without tragedy. 

I'm sorry, thousands of being beingcrushed alive, slowlysuffocating under the rubble.. is not tragedy?  you cannot be serious. Reapers are attacking.  people will be dying, in droves.  you will actualy be able to witnessit, the tragedy, the loss of life, having to escape becasue you cannot do anything at the time, KNOWING that the longer you take, the more people will die.  but I forget, all those deaths don't matter. that story about a turkish guy who was reunited with his fiance?  you probably think it would have been better if they dug her up, only to have her die in his arms or something >_>  except thats' not the tone that BOTH Mass Effect games set so far.

[PPR223]

I don't know whether all of the squad members are confirmed, but if they are then there will be a problem with this. It is a possibility to have only three squad members in Mass Effect 3, at the moment anyway, as all the rest can die in the previous games. Now, if this is so, then none of the unkillables can die till the end of Mass Effect 3, otherwise you would have no choice for your squad.

This would give away a bit of what happens, as we will know that neither Kaiden/Ashley, Liara or James Vega can die till the end of the game. As I said, this is only a problem if there aren't anymore squad members.

Besides that, I do not mind a forced death, though maybe not related to a specific character. It will be decent if every run through atleast one person must die, but not in the Ashley/Kaiden way of Mass Effect 1. It should be portrayed in a better way also, as the OP said.

[Bekkael]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Well you have to have at least two people alive in ME2, I think, to stay alive, so that's five right there.

Unless one of them is Zaeed and you killed him on his loyalty mission after the SM.

I'm sure only intentional fail!Sheps have that kind of scenario going though.

[DiebytheSword]

Luigitornado wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

interesting thing about tragedy having meaning and emotional impact. reading an article today, on earthquake in Turkey.. and you know what they focus on? people who have been rescued. families that have been reunited. against all odds and through horrible hardships. it was the same during Japan's earthquake. all the best stories? they were about hope. about children reuniting with parents, owners with their pets, after weeks of thinking the worst.

sometimes hope makes the best emotional impact. and accusations of unrealistic fly out the window when you have people being rescued after floating for over a week at sea. sometimes hope perseveres, life perseveres against all odds. and it makes a damn good story.

No. You can't have hope without tragedy. 

The same is true in reverse. Trajedy requires a state of normalcy, perfection as it were, to create the possibility of disappointment.

Right so a balance needs to be struck. Kill Garus, Shepard saves the galaxy = awesomesauce. 

I'm fine with a character death in context.  Some deaths are pointless, and those deaths are shallow and not worthy of tragedy. 

Damn my mispelling fast typing, I messed that up earlier.