322 réponses à ce sujet

[Yezdigerd]

The reapers have no intention or desire to destroy the citadel of course.

This is what Vigil says:

"That was our fate, our leaders were dead before we realized we were under attack. The Reapers seized control of the Citadel and through it, the mass relays. Communication and transportation across our empire were crippled. Each star system was isolated, cut off from the others, easy prey for the Reaper fleets."

[CptBomBom00]

But if Shepard and council will understand Citadel secrets maybe we will be able to delay Reapers spreading further into galaxy.

[Cpt-Brit]

Yezdigerd wrote...

The reapers have no intention or desire to destroy the citadel of course.

This is what Vigil says:

"That was our fate, our leaders were dead before we realized we were under attack. The Reapers seized control of the Citadel and through it, the mass relays. Communication and transportation across our empire were crippled. Each star system was isolated, cut off from the others, easy prey for the Reaper fleets."

But even that doesn't say that the Relays will shut off if the Citadel is destroyed

Like someone has said in this thread before its like a TV and the Remotes if you smash the remote the TV will still work even though when not broken the remote has the ability to switch off the TV.

Like I said before we'll have to wait while release I just think it would be a really bad decision to make it so if the Citadel is destroyed its an automatic loss for the player

[jamesp81]

Cpt-Brit wrote...

Why are the "Save the Citadel" group so certain that destroying the Citadel will render the Mass Effect relays useless? The Citadel obviously doesn't power them and the Asari were using relays before the Citadel was found and reactivated it. So "Herp we have to save Citadel or we lose derp" is just wrong...

Don't get me wrong though I believe that it should be defended - not at the cost of Earth though - but if it looks like the Reapers are going to take it use whatever form of WMD that can be used on that b*tch.

If the Reapers are close to taking the station, you have nothing to lose by destroying it.

[jamesp81]

MartinDN wrote...

I would save the citadel, only on the pretense it is more strategic than earth, earth is not the center of the systems alliance is it not ? Earth is just a symbol, no point risking lifes for it, that is why organic species are weak, emotions.

The citadel though has the citadel fleet, the citadel itself and the councillors, census charts, maps, relay hub etc etc

Considerably less than 5% of the human race live off of Earth.

If you're willing to contemplate genocide of your own species to save a space station, go ahead, but it's a ridiculous idea.

If the choice is save the Citadel or Earth, we nuke the Citadel to prevent them from getting it and then save the actual planets.

[SnowHeart1]

May have already been mentioned, but in terms of pure population numbers, Earth wins by a landslide.

Earth:  11.4 Billion
Citadel:  13.2 Million

Just in terms of the loss of life, I'd have a hard time going with the Citadel, even setting aside pro-Human tendencies. Discussions about the strategic importance of the Citadel may be overstated; it is also a potential huge weakness, given the way it was designed, with many secrets still unknown. Add to the fact that losing that many Billions of people and what we've learned about how the Reapers use bodies, you could be giving the Reapers a huge boon by letting them take that many people. So, again, Earth.

[Arkitekt]

Well the question is stupid from the get go. It's like asking if whether we should save the UN building or New York.

[Shepard the Leper]

Arkitekt wrote...

Well the question is stupid from the get go. It's like asking if whether we should save the UN building or New York.

Indeed. The question is about extinction which makes saving whatever place irrelevant if it only slightly delays destruction anyways.

The real question is about stopping the Reapers. Only if there's a possible solution to that question makes debating saving the Earth or the Citadel relevant. Without a solution everyone will die regardless.

[111987]

I guess that depends on the importance of the Citadel in the war. In terms of lives lost, there's no question. But the Citadel may be of such strategic importance that losing it would simply be catastrophic.

A scenario I thought up is this; organics use the Citadel relay to access the Citadel's twin relay in dark space. You then proceed to plant a bomb on that relay, return to the Citadel, and detonate the bomb using QE technology. Why would this be of strategic importance? Because as the Codex says, the only way space combat occurs is when a fleet attacks a location that the enemy has to defend, or else everyone could just use FTL to escape. You would force the Reapers to stay in one location and defend the dark space relay, which is where you unleash your galactic fleet/DEM/whatever on the Reaper fleet.

However if something to that effect doesn't happen, Earth has to be the priority.

[Shepard the Leper]

111987 wrote...

However if something to that effect doesn't happen, Earth has to be the priority.

The priority is to defeat the Reapers. Everything else is irrelevant. Only when there are two or more (fail-safe) strategies that would ensure victory it would make sense to compare those strategies and pick the one which results in fewer casualties.

[111987]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

111987 wrote...

However if something to that effect doesn't happen, Earth has to be the priority.

The priority is to defeat the Reapers. Everything else is irrelevant. Only when there are two or more (fail-safe) strategies that would ensure victory it would make sense to compare those strategies and pick the one which results in fewer casualties.

That's why I said it depends on the situation...read the entire post next time.

If both Earth and the Citadel are of no strategic importance, you save Earth.

[Shepard the Leper]

111987 wrote...

That's why I said it depends on the situation...read the entire post next time.

If both Earth and the Citadel are of no strategic importance, you save Earth.

I read your entire post but it didn't have anything to do with saving Earth or the Citadel.

When they are of no strategic importance, they are not worth saving because wasting precious resources on something that will not help win the war in any way is pointless, or worse, counter-productive.

[111987]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

111987 wrote...

That's why I said it depends on the situation...read the entire post next time.

If both Earth and the Citadel are of no strategic importance, you save Earth.

I read your entire post but it didn't have anything to do with saving Earth or the Citadel.

When
they are of no strategic importance, they are not worth saving because
wasting precious resources on something that will not help win the war
in any way is pointless, or worse, counter-productive.

Wow...you need to work on your reading comprehension then. "I guess that depends on the importance of the Citadel in the war. In
terms of lives lost, there's no question. But the Citadel may be of such
strategic importance that losing it would simply be catastrophic."

What part of that did you not understand? Save the one with the most strategic importance.

Not worth saving? Perhaps this is my fault for not being clear. When the Citadel and Earth are of EQUAL strategic importance, saving Earth should be the priority. It's billions of lives vs. millions, not to mention all of the war assets Earth provides.

[sael_feman]

Damn! That's a painful choice.

And I don't have an answer which is good enough. But I hope we can save both.

S'F'

[Shepard the Leper]

111987 wrote...

Wow...you need to work on your reading comprehension then. "I guess that depends on the importance of the Citadel in the war. In
terms of lives lost, there's no question. But the Citadel may be of such
strategic importance that losing it would simply be catastrophic."

What part of that did you not understand? Save the one with the most strategic importance.

Not worth saving? Perhaps this is my fault for not being clear. When the Citadel and Earth are of EQUAL strategic importance, saving Earth should be the priority. It's billions of lives vs. millions, not to mention all of the war assets Earth provides.

I think you should work on your comprehension skills in general.

You are somehow assuming that the Citadel has strategic importance (which might benefit the war against the Reapers). May I ask how? AFAIK the Reapers took control over the Citadel immediately when they were dealing with the Protheans. They used THEIR Citadel to take control over THEIR Relays (and to gather intel). If that is true (we have to trust Vigil on this) the most sensible thing to do is to boobytrap the Citadel with nukes and blow it as soon as the Reapers are within the nuclear blast radius. Thus far we can only assume the Citadel is (strategically) important to the Reapers - it has no (strategic) value for the people of the galaxy and even if it did, there is nothing to stop the Reapers from taking control anyways.

There is nothing we know about that will give the galaxy a fighting chance. They are incapable of defending anything which, again, makes this topic completely pointless since it assumes there is a magical defense system which we can use to either protect the Citadel or Earth.

The problem is quite simple. We either defeat the Reapers or EVERYTHING will die. Oh, and it would be sensible to boobytrap Earth too. Blowing up Earth with everyone on it and kill a couple Reapers in the process is much better than to let the Reapers kill / harvest the lot without losing a single ship.

[111987]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

111987 wrote...

Wow...you need to work on your reading comprehension then. "I guess that depends on the importance of the Citadel in the war. In
terms of lives lost, there's no question. But the Citadel may be of such
strategic importance that losing it would simply be catastrophic."

What part of that did you not understand? Save the one with the most strategic importance.

Not worth saving? Perhaps this is my fault for not being clear. When the Citadel and Earth are of EQUAL strategic importance, saving Earth should be the priority. It's billions of lives vs. millions, not to mention all of the war assets Earth provides.

I think you should work on your comprehension skills in general.

You are somehow assuming that the Citadel has strategic importance (which might benefit the war against the Reapers). May I ask how? AFAIK the Reapers took control over the Citadel immediately when they were dealing with the Protheans. They used THEIR Citadel to take control over THEIR Relays (and to gather intel). If that is true (we have to trust Vigil on this) the most sensible thing to do is to boobytrap the Citadel with nukes and blow it as soon as the Reapers are within the nuclear blast radius. Thus far we can only assume the Citadel is (strategically) important to the Reapers - it has no (strategic) value for the people of the galaxy and even if it did, there is nothing to stop the Reapers from taking control anyways.

There is nothing we know about that will give the galaxy a fighting chance. They are incapable of defending anything which, again, makes this topic completely pointless since it assumes there is a magical defense system which we can use to either protect the Citadel or Earth.

The problem is quite simple. We either defeat the Reapers or EVERYTHING will die. Oh, and it would be sensible to boobytrap Earth too. Blowing up Earth with everyone on it and kill a couple Reapers in the process is much better than to let the Reapers kill / harvest the lot without losing a single ship.

You still aren't getting it. I said only save the Citadel if it turns out to be of immense strategic value. As of right now, it isn't, but I laid out a scenario in which it might be as an example.

[Shepard the Leper]

111987 wrote...

You still aren't getting it. I said only save the Citadel if it turns out to be of immense strategic value. As of right now, it isn't, but I laid out a scenario in which it might be as an example.

And you still continue to assume it is possible to defend anything in the first place. Even if the Citadel, or whatever place for that matter, is important, there still isn't anything we can do to stop the Reapers from taking/destroying it.

[111987]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

111987 wrote...

You still aren't getting it. I said only save the Citadel if it turns out to be of immense strategic value. As of right now, it isn't, but I laid out a scenario in which it might be as an example.

And you still continue to assume it is possible to defend anything in the first place. Even if the Citadel, or whatever place for that matter, is important, there still isn't anything we can do to stop the Reapers from taking/destroying it.

This is a hypothetical scenario...

And why couldn't you defend the Citadel? Just close the arms up. The Reapers would have to severely damage and possibly even destroy the Citadel to breach it.

[Zkyire]

Save the aliens if possible.

If it's a Humans or Aliens choice?

Screw the xeno filth.

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 26 octobre 2011 - 07:40 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Save the aliens if possible.

If it's a Humans or Aliens choice?

Screw the xeno filth.

You humans are all racist!

[Shepard the Leper]

111987 wrote...

This is a hypothetical scenario...

And why couldn't you defend the Citadel? Just close the arms up. The Reapers would have to severely damage and possibly even destroy the Citadel to breach it.

I know your example was a hypothetical scenario, but unless your assumption tunr out to be correct it has little value. But I'll bite

I believe it's very unlikely the Reapers don't have a "secret door" to gain access to the Citadel - which is very important to successfully launch their beloved surprise attacks. In ME1 we learn about Sovereign, who's using Saren to find (and use) the Conduit. Apparently, Sovereign needed a non-Reaper to discover, locate and use a Prothean device to gain access to the Citadel to trigger the main attack. That doesn't make much (strategic) sense since the Reapers completely rely on something which is outside their control. It assumes the civilizations who were destroyed before the Protheans also managed to secretly construct their own Conduit which would be used in a ME1 kinda way to trigger the attack to destroy the next civilization.

That makes it impossible for me to think a "closed" Citadel would be potentially problematic for the Reapers. It's very likely many of their previous attacks didn't needed help from the outside; and it's very unlikely that the "have the previous civilization build a Conduit device to destroy the next one"-strategy always worked as intended. The reliance on sheer luck to gain access to a (perhaps the most) important target is an incredibly dumb strategy - that's not very Reaper'ish IMHO.