322 réponses à ce sujet

[Kasen]

charredrex wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The Citadel should be destroyed, rather than risk it falling into Reaper hands.

If this disables the mass relay network, that's even better.  The relay network is a trap, allowing the Reapers to destroy us swiftly.

On the other hand destroying it is a trap also because now you're open to being picked off system by system, just like the Protheans.

Bingo. Besides, there's no way to know whether or not the Reapers have some kind of backup system built into the Relays that lets them use them regardless of the status of the Citadel.

Edited to add: As much as I'd hate to lose Earth, the Citadel seems to be the key to... everything. If the Reapers take the Citadel that means they can shut down the Mass Relay network, leaving everyone stranded and defenceless. We'd be unable to mount a counter-offensive and left to be picked off one by one.

Modifié par Kasen13, 25 octobre 2011 - 11:05 .

[RyuujinZERO]

Earth has the bigger population. But there's more at stake than lives.

The citadel is hub of intelligence for every planet and every council race - it has the census data, co-ordinates of all their major worlds, trade routes, research and schematics. It's also has many unknown functions kept hidden by the keepers and planted there by the reapers

Loss of the citadel to the reapers would give them a massive tactical advantage increasing the likelihood that every world (Including earth) may ultimately fall in the full course of the war.


Of course... if you were to destroy the citadel first >

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 25 octobre 2011 - 11:03 .

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Gee, tough choices and I hate number games.   I'd say ...save the citadel. Its importance is undeniable in galactic terms. Who knows there isn't some hidden key in the citadel to reprogram the relays to recognise and shoot the Reapers into some black hole when they try to use them.

[Robhuzz]

Citadel has a population of only 13 million or so. Earth has 11 billion people. All other homeworlds also have many billions of inhabitants. I would save the planet over the Citadel in a heartbeat.

The Reapers won't blow up the Citadel anyway, and they damn well won't allow the organic races enough time to try it so we'd only lose the 13 million people on the station, unfortunate but necessary.

[Someone With Mass]

If the Reapers can shut down the relay network, then there won't be any help coming for Earth. Or any other solar system/planet in the galaxy.

Not to mention that the humans have colonies they can use.

[Kasen]

Robhuzz wrote...

Citadel has a population of only 13 million or so. Earth has 11 billion people. All other homeworlds also have many billions of inhabitants. I would save the planet over the Citadel in a heartbeat.

The Reapers won't blow up the Citadel anyway, and they damn well won't allow the organic races enough time to try it so we'd only lose the 13 million people on the station, unfortunate but necessary.

Okay, did I misunderstand something in ME1 or what? I was under the direct impression (i think it was Vigil that said it) that from the Citadel, the Reapers could shut down the Mass Relay network. I thought that was the whole reason they started there, so they had complete control over all interstellar travel and could sit back and pick off the now defenceless systems one by one. No reinforcements, no counter-offensives, nothing... essentially; Lose Citadel = Reapers Win.

Isn't that what Saren did? He locked the relays so that the Alliance Fleet couldn't jump in to save the day, so Shepard had to unlock them. The only relay not on the network was the Conduit and that's how the Protheans got "in the back door" to reprogram the Keepers.

Or am I mistaken, because if I am I'd really like to know.

[Wulfram]

charredrex wrote...

On the other hand destroying it is a trap also because now you're open to being picked off system by system, just like the Protheans.

The Protheans were at a massive disadvantage because the Reapers had the Citadel and thus control of the relay network.  However if neither side have the relay network you remove the Reapers advantage and buy the galaxy time to find a way to fight back - rather than having all the major worlds destroyed almost immediately, with the rest being little more than a mopping up exercise.

[Someone With Mass]

Kasen13 wrote...
Okay, did I misunderstand something in ME1 or what? I was under the direct impression (i think it was Vigil that said it) that from the Citadel, the Reapers could shut down the Mass Relay network. I thought that was the whole reason they started there, so they had complete control over all interstellar travel and could sit back and pick off the now defenceless systems one by one. No reinforcements, no counter-offensives, nothing... essentially; Lose Citadel = Reapers Win.

Isn't that what Saren did? He locked the relays so that the Alliance Fleet couldn't jump in to save the day, so Shepard had to unlock them. The only relay not on the network was the Conduit and that's how the Protheans got "in the back door" to reprogram the Keepers.

Or am I mistaken, because if I am I'd really like to know.

Unless the Council or anyone else have magically learned how to use the Citadel master control system, this problem is very much alive and well.

[charredrex]

Wulfram wrote...

charredrex wrote...

On the other hand destroying it is a trap also because now you're open to being picked off system by system, just like the Protheans.

The Protheans were at a massive disadvantage because the Reapers had the Citadel and thus control of the relay network.  However if neither side have the relay network you remove the Reapers advantage and buy the galaxy time to find a way to fight back - rather than having all the major worlds destroyed almost immediately, with the rest being little more than a mopping up exercise.

That's assuming our FTL without the mass relays is on par with the Reapers, which I'm guessing none of the races have FTL even CLOSE to what the Reapers have which still puts us at a major disadvantage.  When the Reapers show up and your closest back-up fleet is still months away even at FTL you are done.  It's better to have the Mass Relays to have a fast way to move than not. 

It'd be like destroying our highways just to limit the enemy moving across the country, but at the same time you've just crippled your military's own ability to mobilize and are diong more harm than good.

[Shepard the Leper]

AFAIK the Reapers are going to wipe out all life in the galaxy. Stopping the Reapers is the only thing that matters, if that means both Earth and the Citadel are going to be destroyed, so be it. It doesn't matter if you lose a battle as long as you win the war in the end.

To try save the Earth, Citadel or whatever place or planet, no matter what the cost, is a sure way to a crushing defeat.

[Wulfram]

charredrex wrote...

That's assuming our FTL without the mass relays is on par with the Reapers, which I'm guessing none of the races have FTL even CLOSE to what the Reapers have which still puts us at a major disadvantage.  When the Reapers show up and your closest back-up fleet is still months away even at FTL you are done.  It's better to have the Mass Relays to have a fast way to move than not. 

Every evidence we've got is that if the reapers show up and your closest back-up fleet is a minute away, you're just as done.

It'd be like destroying our highways just to limit the enemy moving across the country, but at the same time you've just crippled your military's own ability to mobilize and are diong more harm than good.

If you're totally outclassed in open battle, then that's precisely what you should do.

[charredrex]

Wulfram wrote...

charredrex wrote...

That's assuming our FTL without the mass relays is on par with the Reapers, which I'm guessing none of the races have FTL even CLOSE to what the Reapers have which still puts us at a major disadvantage.  When the Reapers show up and your closest back-up fleet is still months away even at FTL you are done.  It's better to have the Mass Relays to have a fast way to move than not. 

Every evidence we've got is that if the reapers show up and your closest back-up fleet is a minute away, you're just as done.

It'd be like destroying our highways just to limit the enemy moving across the country, but at the same time you've just crippled your military's own ability to mobilize and are diong more harm than good.

If you're totally outclassed in open battle, then that's precisely what you should do.

I coudl see wipign out a Mass Relay here or there to try to contain them a bit or slow them down, but wiping out the whole relay network really seems to me to be more like suicide.  Unless of course you've already amassed all your fleets in one place for one big push, btu even then, you're playing the waiting game hopign they come to your fleet instead of wiping out worlds.

I think wiping out the Citadel would be a last resort if nothing else had worked and even then you'd better have your fleets together to fight them.

[Apollo Starflare]

Earth.

[Dreadwing 67]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

You lose the Citadel, you could very well lose the war.

I only care about humanity. If humanity dies out then the Citadel and the rest of the galaxy may as well be wiped out, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

Fool...No. I sometimes wonder if we are worth saving anyway.

[Ghost Warrior]

Don't know. Earth has a lot bigger population and I would probably be dooming our race by destroying the planet,but on the other hand how would galaxy function without the Citadel and what would happen to mass relay transport?

[Last Vizard]

Chaosty wrote...

Citadel. The place is really important for all species not just humans.
If earth is plowed over and the reapers are destroyed people can rebuild. Without a council, Reapers, or proper goverment earth won't stand a chance against Geth, Raiders or the other races. There could be war because everyone will see an oppertunety for power thanks to the citadel, the previous galactic law, has been destroyed.

But the council did die in my main ME1 playthrough, galaxy didn't end then.... in fact it was more of the same which was disturbing because noone will prepare for the Reapers.  If enough Humans survive on Earth we'll survive, if Earth is lost we'll die out, just look at the treatment of Krogans/Quarians... you know deep down the aliens in ME universe are just like us, they'll screw us the second we are too weak to defend ourselves so i say screw the citadel.

[Robhuzz]

Kasen13 wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Citadel has a population of only 13 million or so. Earth has 11 billion people. All other homeworlds also have many billions of inhabitants. I would save the planet over the Citadel in a heartbeat.

The Reapers won't blow up the Citadel anyway, and they damn well won't allow the organic races enough time to try it so we'd only lose the 13 million people on the station, unfortunate but necessary.

Okay, did I misunderstand something in ME1 or what? I was under the direct impression (i think it was Vigil that said it) that from the Citadel, the Reapers could shut down the Mass Relay network. I thought that was the whole reason they started there, so they had complete control over all interstellar travel and could sit back and pick off the now defenceless systems one by one. No reinforcements, no counter-offensives, nothing... essentially; Lose Citadel = Reapers Win.

Isn't that what Saren did? He locked the relays so that the Alliance Fleet couldn't jump in to save the day, so Shepard had to unlock them. The only relay not on the network was the Conduit and that's how the Protheans got "in the back door" to reprogram the Keepers.

Or am I mistaken, because if I am I'd really like to know.

This was exactly how the Reapers did it the previous times, until those smart prothean scientists made sure they could no longer control the citadel through the keepers. The Reapers cannot control the citadel without someone giving them access - Sovereign needed Saren to give him access, he could not do it on his own - that's what the Protheans accomplished. So losing the Citadel does not mean the Reapers can just use it. Of course they could simply indoctrinate someone to give them access, but I'd like to think it's not as easy as that.

[Last Vizard]

Dreadwing 67 wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

You lose the Citadel, you could very well lose the war.

I only care about humanity. If humanity dies out then the Citadel and the rest of the galaxy may as well be wiped out, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

Fool...No. I sometimes wonder if we are worth saving anyway.

lookout, we have another jelly lover, wana float in a utopian galaxy? say you sacrifice your own species because you don't feel an attachment to your own species (all nations of people not just the west) and you win the war agains the Reapers then what? universe is pretty big, do you think the Reapers are the worste things out there?
 What if you put the galaxy on the utopian path only for us to be exterminated bilions of years later?

I think we are worth dying for, you don't hate your own species do you?

[RyuujinZERO]

Robhuzz wrote...

Citadel has a population of only 13 million or so. Earth has 11 billion people. All other homeworlds also have many billions of inhabitants. I would save the planet over the Citadel in a heartbeat.

The Reapers won't blow up the Citadel anyway, and they damn well won't allow the organic races enough time to try it so we'd only lose the 13 million people on the station, unfortunate but necessary.

But with the loss of the citadel, the reapers shut down the relay network for all but themselves. They have the stored databases, census data,s chematics, military data on every race in the galaxy.

11 billion people on Earth are saved; temporarily - but with the relay network offline and the reapers armed with tactical data on all the council races, it's only a matter of time before the reapers systematiclly destroy the major races system-by-system, and inevitably, Earth is back on their target list for a second try, this time with the amassed husks and possibly additional reapers built from the asari/turians/salarians/krogans/elcor/hanar/etc etc etc

In arrival you sacrificed a planet to buy a few months to prepare - selling the Earth for the continued survival of the galaxy seems like a small price

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 25 octobre 2011 - 01:14 .

[Gabey5]

the citadel is just a space station. Earth is home world.

[RyuujinZERO]

Gabey5 wrote...

the citadel is just a space station. Earth is home world.

I suggest you read the thread (Or, maybe play Mass Effect 1 and pay attention this time ;p) The citadel is more than just a space station

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 25 octobre 2011 - 01:16 .

[happy_daiz]

Hmm. I'd normally say "Earth", but surely we human idiots have already stripped it of all of its resources by whatever year it is in ME time, and it's just a shell of what it once was...but on the other hand, the keepers could take a piece of wall and some tubing, and make a new wing with it, so the citadel would probably be fine in a firefight.

I don't know. How did I get sucked into this topic? Alex?! 

Modifié par happy_daiz, 25 octobre 2011 - 01:18 .

[Medhia Nox]

Even if the Earth had a human population of 0 - I would save a garden world over a space station.

Even if the Citadel can magically support some form of ecosystem instead of being an insane drag on resources for all Council races (people think space colonization is just rocket ships - it's a nearly insurmountable task, certainly now, but likely even far far into the future) - it would not even amount to the tiniest fraction that a garden world would be capable of.

===

But your question is vague.

The Reapers only harvest space faring species - they don't just blow **** up for kicks.

So - would I allow the Earth or the Citadel to be harvested of all its space faring life forms?

Well - a no consequence mindset (meaning guilt free) says I would have them harvest Earth. I am a greater advocate of the other species on our planet (plant, animal, fungus, bacterial, etc) - than I am the virus that is the human race.

The main reason is that I could perceive the Reapers as galactic maintenance "men" - keeping the sapient species down and allowing life itself to flourish. It's the story I would have actually gone with - making the sapient races the villains.

However - in the end, I suppose I would have the Citadel harvested over the Earth. The cynic in me knows that - unless all sapient life forms are likewise destroyed - someone else will simply colonize Earth again (likely humans) and continue a system of stagnation and parasitic consumption.

At least some humans have a fundamental connection to Earth - and, when the ecosystem finally does collapse - might try to save it and not simply abandon it as a "spent world".

====

If the Earth does fall - then the human race become the same as the Drell.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 octobre 2011 - 01:21 .

[Last Vizard]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

the citadel is just a space station. Earth is home world.

I suggest you read the thread (Or, maybe play Mass Effect 1 and pay attention this time ;p) The citadel is more than just a space station

I'd destroy the citadel the same way you destroy a relay.

[atheelogos]

Adugan wrote...

I have a theory that BW will do something like Virmire, but with planets.  Save Earth or save the Citadel. What do you guys think?

that's not a choice we'll have to make. You'd need the Citadel to save Earth since its the hub of the Relay network so you kinda need both.