47 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

I've noticed that in Origins it's strongly implied that Templars take vows of chastity and don't marry. And in ep 3 of Redemption that Templar right out says they aren't allowed to get married.

But Wesley from DAII was married to Aveline. So what's up with that? Did Wes pull an Anakin Skywalker and marry in secret?

And Ser Thrask had a daughter but no shown wife.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 25 octobre 2011 - 07:05 .

[Huntress]

No, some templars and mages are allow to marry.
in origens we find clues of a mage that was living with his wife and child and he helped in the war against orlais, he served under arl of redcliff..

[KJandrew]

Huntress wrote...

No, some templars and mages are allow to marry.
in origens we find clues of a mage that was living with his wife and child and he helped in the war against orlais, he served under arl of redcliff..

That was Wilhelm, he shows up in The Stolen Throne. It was for his service in the war that he was allowed to live outside the circle 

[WhiteKnyght]

Mages don't take any vows. Templars and Sisters/Mothers do.

Wynne said herself that mages marrying was frowned upon, but mages often have one night stands. She's even admitted to having them herself.

Chances are that Wynne probably doesn't know who Rhys' father is.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 25 octobre 2011 - 08:05 .

[TheCreeper]

Templars can marry I think, they just need extra premission from the Chantry.

[WhiteKnyght]

TheCreeper wrote...

Templars can marry I think, they just need extra premission from the Chantry.

Doubtful. When the church makes you take a vow they expect you to keep it no matter what.

Only exception I could see would be that whole Chaste Marriage thing that Sebastian talks about.

But from how Aveline sounded, they had been intimate.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 25 octobre 2011 - 08:08 .

[IanPolaris]

It is also possible that it might be forbidden from Templars to marry once they are Templars but not forbidden (but frowned upon) for married men to become Templars (i.e. be married before becoming a Templar). I know that in the Roman Catholic Church it is possible to be a married priest in spite of Oaths of Celebacy provided you were married before as a priest of a "Catholic Church" (usually Anglican Catholic) before converting.

Just speculation here, but it might be rare and generally forbidden without being totally impossible.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

I believe Gaider clarified that some Templars are rewarded for their services with being allowed to marry.

[Wulfram]

Templars don't take vows of chastity

http://social.biowar...x/4801810&lf=8)

edit: I do agree that Origins implied otherwise.  But Origins also seemed to depict the Templars as exclusively male, until Awakening.

Modifié par Wulfram, 25 octobre 2011 - 08:24 .

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

Templars don't take vows of chastity

http://social.biowar...x/4801810&lf=8)

edit: I do agree that Origins implied otherwise.  But Origins also seemed to depict the Templars as exclusively male, until Awakening.

Well then, that directly contradicts what the Templar in Redemption says. He outright says that they are "wed to the church" and "not allowed to marry".

Bioware is really contradicting themselves lately it seems .

I mean, this isn't something that can be explained away by "Oh that Templar didn't know that Templars can marry" because that's a very big piece of information that I think the Templars ought to know and would know considering Knight Commander Gregoir had to remind the Templar under his authority of their vows.

[LobselVith8]

You would imagine that anyone who played the sequel would realize that a templar can marry, given Wesley's marriage to Aveline. The thread "Templars and Chastity" addresses (from Gaider) that templars don't take vows of chastity, and are permitted to marry.

Given that Malcolm Hawke has no less than three "origin" stories, it's not surprising that they contradicted themselves again, Ethereal.

[TheCreeper]

Gaider made it very clear, they can marry it's just frowned upon and only allowed when the spouse can support themselves without the templar (because it's unlikely they are going to be around much.)

[kyles3]

Episode three had a few things that made me think that BioWare may not have much direct involvement with the web series. Nothing earth-shattering, just little things you'd think they'd catch.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

You would imagine that anyone who played the sequel would realize that a templar can marry, given Wesley's marriage to Aveline. The thread "Templars and Chastity" addresses (from Gaider) that templars don't take vows of chastity, and are permitted to marry.

Given that Malcolm Hawke has no less than three "origin" stories, it's not surprising that they contradicted themselves again, Ethereal.

Eh Malcolm's story makes sense, but Bioware just put it together in a very convoluted way that makes no sense.

What are all of the things that point to Malcolm's background that we have? I remember him being raised in the Circle, turning apostate and then mercenary, meeting Leandra at one of the Viscount's parties, blackmailed into being with the Grey Wardens temporarily when Leandra was pregnant with Hawke (or Hawke was a year old), and some other stuff I can't recall.

If I can get all of it, I might be able to make sense of it and any confusion that Malcolm's background has won't be there anymore.

[LobselVith8]

Well, Ethereal, we have the implication that he knew Tobrius and Ser Carver, but the Mage Pack DLC states he came to Kirkwall as a mercenary, and when he was exposed - he left quickly with Leandra after the Orlesian ball. No one really knows Malcolm's past, because he never spoke about it - he only makes one vague reference to Leandra.

Basically, we have the implications with Ser Carver and Tobrius, vanishing into the night with Leandra when he saved the life of the leader of the Crimson Oars during his role as a mercenary (where it's noted that he had excellent martial skills), and the Grey Wardens letting him go in exchange for a blood magic ritual.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 26 octobre 2011 - 04:11 .

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Well, Ethereal, we have the implication that he knew Tobrius and Ser Carver, but the Mage Pack DLC states he came to Kirkwall as a mercenary, and when he was exposed - he left quickly with Leandra after the Orlesian ball. No one really knows Malcolm's past, because he never spoke about it - he only makes one vague reference to Leandra.

Basically, we have the implications with Ser Carver and Tobrius, vanishing into the night with Leandra when he saved the life of the leader of the Crimson Oars during his role as a mercenary (where it's noted that he had excellent martial skills, and the Grey Wardens letting him go in exchange for a blood magic ritual.

Alright, I'll try and do this on a point by point thing. I think I've got it:

• A Fereldan mage raised in Kirkwall's Circle
• Turned apostate thanks to the aid of Ser Maarevar Carver
• Afterwards, he became a mercenary.
• was sent to Kirkwall and possibly had to attend the Viscount's party as part of his mission. Met Leandra thanks to Gamlen at said party and used his wit to charm her.
• Met with her more times
• In Kirkwall he saved the Crimson Oars' Leader. Templars were then alerted to his presence
• Met Leandra once again at the party where the young Empress was.
• They fled, but were dogged by the Templars
• Eventually found a brief respite, but the Wardens forced Malcolm to help them.
• Afterwards, they went across the Waking Sea towards Ferelden and lived a new life.

[erilben]

That doesn't work because Leandra says that Malcolm was a Circle mage when she met him. Gamlen confirms it too. He says Leandra was given no money by her family when they threw her out, and Malcolm had no money either being a mage just coming out from the Circle. Seems like the item pack codexes are just not true.

Modifié par erilben, 25 octobre 2011 - 09:54 .

[TEWR]

erilben wrote...

That doesn't work because Leandra says that Malcolm was a Circle mage when she met him. Gamlen confirms it too. He says Leandra was given no money by her family when they threw her out, and Malcolm had no money either being a mage just coming out from the Circle. Seems like the item pack codexes are just not true.

Perhaps Malcolm lied to Leandra and Gamlen about being a Circle mage at that time? I remember Mike Laidlaw or David Gaider or someone saying that it was common for Circle mages to be brought to parties.

[Wittand25]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

erilben wrote...

That doesn't work because Leandra says that Malcolm was a Circle mage when she met him. Gamlen confirms it too. He says Leandra was given no money by her family when they threw her out, and Malcolm had no money either being a mage just coming out from the Circle. Seems like the item pack codexes are just not true.

Perhaps Malcolm lied to Leandra and Gamlen about being a Circle mage at that time? I remember Mike Laidlaw or David Gaider or someone saying that it was common for Circle mages to be brought to parties.

You actually get the story on how the two met in the first DLC I think.

Malcom was a mage performing at some official occasions and he met Leandra there. 

[TEWR]

Wittand25 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

erilben wrote...

That doesn't work because Leandra says that Malcolm was a Circle mage when she met him. Gamlen confirms it too. He says Leandra was given no money by her family when they threw her out, and Malcolm had no money either being a mage just coming out from the Circle. Seems like the item pack codexes are just not true.

Perhaps Malcolm lied to Leandra and Gamlen about being a Circle mage at that time? I remember Mike Laidlaw or David Gaider or someone saying that it was common for Circle mages to be brought to parties.

You actually get the story on how the two met in the first DLC I think.

Malcom was a mage performing at some official occasions and he met Leandra there. 

Yup I addressed them meeting at the Viscount's party in my point by point thingy up above where I was trying to make sense of it.

[Wittand25]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

erilben wrote...

That doesn't work because Leandra says that Malcolm was a Circle mage when she met him. Gamlen confirms it too. He says Leandra was given no money by her family when they threw her out, and Malcolm had no money either being a mage just coming out from the Circle. Seems like the item pack codexes are just not true.

Perhaps Malcolm lied to Leandra and Gamlen about being a Circle mage at that time? I remember Mike Laidlaw or David Gaider or someone saying that it was common for Circle mages to be brought to parties.

You actually get the story on how the two met in the first DLC I think.

Malcom was a mage performing at some official occasions and he met Leandra there. 

Yup I addressed them meeting at the Viscount's party in my point by point thingy up above where I was trying to make sense of it.

But it does not make sense for a mage who is not a member of the local circle to perform any function at any occasion.

Malcolm was more likely in the same situation as Karl. The Kirkwall circle always had problems with the joining and a rather high member loss because of blood magic and/or demonic influence and so often required harrowed mages from other circles to fill up the ranks of the enchanters.
He later turned mercenary for the gray wardens and other groups in order to get him and Leandra out of Kirkwall.

Modifié par Wittand25, 25 octobre 2011 - 10:20 .

[KJandrew]

Just put the "meet at a party" thing before his escape and then everything should be fine shouldn't it.

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Well, Ethereal, we have the implication that he knew Tobrius and Ser Carver, but the Mage Pack DLC states he came to Kirkwall as a mercenary, and when he was exposed - he left quickly with Leandra after the Orlesian ball. No one really knows Malcolm's past, because he never spoke about it - he only makes one vague reference to Leandra.

Basically, we have the implications with Ser Carver and Tobrius, vanishing into the night with Leandra when he saved the life of the leader of the Crimson Oars during his role as a mercenary (where it's noted that he had excellent martial skills, and the Grey Wardens letting him go in exchange for a blood magic ritual.

Alright, I'll try and do this on a point by point thing. I think I've got it:

• A Fereldan mage raised in Kirkwall's Circle
• Turned apostate thanks to the aid of Ser Maarevar Carver
• Afterwards, he became a mercenary.
• was sent to Kirkwall and possibly had to attend the Viscount's party as part of his mission. Met Leandra thanks to Gamlen at said party and used his wit to charm her.
• Met with her more times
• In Kirkwall he saved the Crimson Oars' Leader. Templars were then alerted to his presence
• Met Leandra once again at the party where the young Empress was.
• They fled, but were dogged by the Templars thanks to Ser Carvers help
• Eventually found a brief respite, but the Wardens forced Malcolm to help them.
• Afterwards, they went across the Waking Sea towards Ferelden and lived a new life.

Fixed.

[TEWR]

But it does not make sense for a mage who is not a member of the local circle to perform any function at any occasion.

Malcolm was more likely in the same situation as Karl. The Kirkwall circle always had problems with the joining and a rather high member loss because of blood magic and/or demonic influence and so often required harrowed mages from other circles to fill up the ranks of the enchanters.

Why does it make no sense? We know he's a Fereldan mage that was raised in Kirkwall's Circle, so it makes sense for him to attend the event.

Hmm... perhaps he met Leandra at the party during his time as a Circle mage, they met other times after that, and when he returned to Kirkwall he met Leandra one more time (or more than one more time) and they eloped afterwards.

[TEWR]

hmmm.... I'd actually appreciate a dev coming in and clearing the air about this.