160 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanPWNS]

King Minos wrote...

The only thing I saw in this page was someone mentioning Spider-man, damn you selective reading. Shepard isn't invincible, Shepard being captured shows that he or show is capable of ****ing up just like anyone else is. So yeah I want Shepard to be captured, hand-cuffed, gagged and wear leather then liara comes bursting in to save Shepard only to join 5 mins later much to Shepards dismay.

I approve.

[biomag]

Xeranx wrote...

biomag wrote...

I don't know how you expect to influence an outcome if your character is locked up and needs to be broken out.  Do you plan to bash your fists against the wall in a futile manner of escape?

The funny thing about this is you've said the story is about Shepard while at the same time make the assumption that a rescue attempt to get Shepard back would make it not about Shepard.  When you take over another character to rescue your protagonist it's quite clear that the story will not move beyond the current situation until the protagonist is recovered.  So how would it not be about Shepard?  You'd have a point if the newly available character were to continue on where Shepard left off, but if the case is a rescue of Shepard then the story is still about Shepard.

DA:O was about the blight coming back to Ferelden featuring the Warden as the main protagonist.  At no point (except DLC) was the Warden not a focus.  The rescue attempt, if the Warden was imprisoned, also centered around him or her.  Nothing moved until the Warden became a part of it.  So I don't know how a rescue being mounted for a Shepard stuck in a box with no means of escape hurts Shepard's story.

Also, keep in mind that if you're controlling a character that is mounting a rescue to get back Shepard or any other protagonist.  If anything special happens (positive or negative) it was influenced by the need of Shepard or any other protagonist.  It can be done very well and still leave plenty for Shepard or any protagonist to do.  Look at the co-op piece that's coming out.  From what I've read/heard, that's exactly what's going to happen.  You, as Shepard, affect what's going on because you're spurring people to action.  Even if it's not as grand as that, the fact that Shepard stopped the initial invasion and gave everyone else a chance to fight is still huge.

You didn't understand what I wrote.

1st: DA:O isn't focused on the Warden the way ME is focused on Shepard. Why? Because you can controll other characters. What you see is not reduced to the Warden's line of sight. ME is about being Shepard and Shepard's decisions. The Dragon Age series is focus on the world, by telling the stories of single main characters. There is a slight difference, but there is a difference.

2nd: I ain't saying Shepard shouldn't be rescued at all. I just don't want to play another character in my playthroughs because of what I mentioned before. There is a reason why except for Shepard you just get to controll Joker through ME 1 & 2.  The ego-perspective means something to the experience of the game and I want the series to stick to it. I love the characters from the series, but I don't want to play them in ME 3.

3rd: Its not about what Shepard does to escape. That's totally not the point of my post. Its the way the game handles it. I said I don't want to watch a long movie in the middle of the game were I can't do anything but watching and neither do I want to play as another character. I have no iusse with being in a hopeless situation where I can explore the prision and its characters for example (think of Baldur's Gate 2 before the escape) or something like DA:O prision just without the option to escape without PC-controlled NPC that come to your rescue.


My arguement is not about getting rescued, its about how the developer tell the story of the rescue.

[Xeranx]

@biomag

Ok.  Sorry about that.

Inprea wrote...

If you want that then why even have a rescue situation? It could be given easily enough. A quick scenario. Shepeard is currently in rout to the Krogan homeworld when a message comes through. An Asari transport is currently under Cerberus or worse yet reaper attack. Making the situation still worse Liara is on that ship or Samara. Not as much of a concern if Samara is on the ship though given that she's a big girl and can take care of herself.

Now Shepeard has two major issues. His/her friends are in danger but she's too far away to help them as it would take hours if not days to get to their location. Shepeard is also faced with the problem that if they rush to the aid fo the asari their dealings on the Krogan homeworld will be delayed which could bring up even more issues.

There can be situation where you're powerless to intervene without actually being captured or in need of someone else to rescue you.

Though in the same scenario where something like the immigrant fleet or the geth (assume they are allies) show up and give the asari ship support then it might be said that Shepeard was rescued from having to make such a tough decision or such a powerless state.

Exactly what I was getting at.

You don't have to rip control of Shepeard away from the player in order to put them in a bad situation.

I've said that it could be done well and that Shepard not being available for player control doesn't mean that Shepard's story isn't being told.  

Putting Shepard in a situation to be rescued can be done to service a different aspect of Shepard's story where his squad is concerned and being unable to control Shepard doesn't translate into him being ripped from your control.  We can be given the ideas on his squad's thoughts and feelings about the situation, about Shepard, about who's more interested to get to Shepard because of who he is rather than what he stands for, etc.  All that builds Shepard up to be more than just what we're allowed to experience because the characters that surround him will tell us what they see or how they feel.

Keep in mind that when we control Shepard we only know what Shepard knows...well we know a little of what he knows.  It's an entirely limited view.  If this were a book (I'm thinking third person omniscient) about Shepard we wouldn't just know what he thought and how he thought.  We'd know what everyone else thinks.  And that only serves to give us a more accurate picture of Shepard.

Now, if the reactions and responses of Shepard's squad were dependent on his actions and behavior towards them, imagine how rich Shepard's story would be.

Modifié par Xeranx, 26 octobre 2011 - 09:57 .

[Sharn01]

Having Shepard in a scenario where say, s/he is pinned down and the rescuer's bring enough firepower for them to combine their efforts and win would be cool.

Having Shepard being captured by people who in reality would kill him/her and not take Shep prisoner just to have a rescue mission is silly.

[Han Shot First]

Shepard Lives wrote...

You can't reasonably expect Shepard to fight off every single threat he/she faces.

Plus, getting rescued can be frickin' awesome.

Agreed.

Having members from your party rescue the Warden from Fort Drakon in Dragon Age: Origins was one of the better parts of that game.

[Xeranx]

Sharn01 wrote...

Having Shepard in a scenario where say, s/he is pinned down and the rescuer's bring enough firepower for them to combine their efforts and win would be cool.

Having Shepard being captured by people who in reality would kill him/her and not take Shep prisoner just to have a rescue mission is silly.

"Wait, aren't you even going to watch them? They could get away!"

"No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying, I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. What?" 

Modifié par Xeranx, 26 octobre 2011 - 10:19 .

[Arkitekt]

I can see a scenario where Kai Leng is able to neutralize Shepard and gets him imprisoned for TIM's machinations and experiments...

[sorentoft]

Conrad saves Shepard.

[Quyk Sylvyr]

I think the DA series plays a bit differently which is why you see more true "rescues." ME introduces us to a Shepard that's already a bad ass. No matter which background you choose, your character has already made a mark on the world. In both Dragon Age games, you start the game as an inexperienced character - most of the backgrounds might have the character having some basic fighting experience but no "real world" fighting experience. To me, the fact that the characters in DA need to be rescued reinforces the idea that they are not experienced fighters at that point in the game.

[Xeranx]

Quyk Sylvyr wrote...

I think the DA series plays a bit differently which is why you see more true "rescues." ME introduces us to a Shepard that's already a bad ass. No matter which background you choose, your character has already made a mark on the world. In both Dragon Age games, you start the game as an inexperienced character - most of the backgrounds might have the character having some basic fighting experience but no "real world" fighting experience. To me, the fact that the characters in DA need to be rescued reinforces the idea that they are not experienced fighters at that point in the game.

Having to be rescued, at all, has nothing to do with experience.  Being inexperienced can have you making mistakes that would land you in hot water more often than not, yes.  However, having experience does not mean you would never find yourself in a situation where you'd need to be rescued.

Using the DA example, Leliana is an experienced fighter.  She found herself in a situation she couldn't handle despite her experience.  She's not wet behind the ears and neither is she as naive as she appears.  As sweet as she comes across I have no reason to believe that she's not the most dangerous person in the group or one of the top two.