133 réponses à ce sujet

[RamirezWolfen]

Honestly I think it's just a political move, like when Shepard became a Spectre. As to who would be better in my opinion, I say Kaidan, as I think level headed people are better suited for jobs like that.

[jeweledleah]

darthnick427 wrote...

Funkcase wrote...

Lol, the way I see it just about all of Shepards squad have the qualities of a spectre, I think from a story point of view the VS are the best choice, we need a second human Spectre, it's not a very good look with humanitys only spectre facing trial for genocide, the VS helping Shepard save the galaxy before make them the natural choice, it was handed to them, but becuase they're capable, and not just becuase of politics.

I agree with this. and I'm pretty sure most fans who want Garrus as a Spectre were the people who pushed him to be one in ME1, myself included. Otherwise most people wouldn't suggest Garrus in these threads as much. That's why I'm pushing for Garrus' Spectre status in ME3. I want my protege inducted damn it!! haha

see, the problem with it is that despite the pushing... he chose to dosomething else.  tha'ts why I don't think Garrus would make a good spectre.  he's a great character and one of my favorites, but he has proven that he's not in fact a spectre material.  he's too muchof a loner in that regard.  spectres are supposed to be the right hand of thecouncil, its enforcers.  Garrus?  he might follow an individual he respects.  but following organizations?  he has big issues with.

unlike kaidan or Ashley.  theyare capable of retaining their individuality and still deal with all the annoyances of being the tools of organizations, and do their jobs despite the red tape.

[CptData]

Collider wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

Collider wrote...

You don't get raised in the life that Ashley did and simply be "cautious" when she says the things she does. Aliens ruined her family's reputation. Of course she's racist.

Oh man, i can't believe it. You're so obsessed with analyzing the hell out of characters and then go and throw this kind of statement. Other than "I can't tel the aliens from the animals" all the things she said make perfect sense, and even that little banter doesn't make her any more xenophobe than Kaidan's remark about Liara makes him a homophobe. 

And could we please stop mixing up xenophobe and racist already.

I take you haven't heard of the remarks she makes during the romance confrontation with Liara. They're quite slanted towards a bias against aliens.

I bet EVERY woman is a bit snarky when a discussion with the competitor takes place. Ashley acts like a normal woman that's plain jealous. Liara doesn't - maybe because her race don't have an understanding of that particular emotion?

Whatever ... such a situation puts a lot of stress on someone's shoulder and Ash does act authentically. I don't want her acting like "I have a thing for Shepard but I don't mind if he has something for Liara as well". Also her statement towards "diplomacy" and such works for me. Ash is jealous. Not more, not less.

Modifié par CptData, 26 octobre 2011 - 03:00 .

[naledgeborn]

Ashley's probably never seen an alien in her life prior to Mass Effect. Couple that with the personal experience of her grandfather's humiliation and a strong sense of human nationalism it's easy to see why she would be confused for a xenophobe. Which she is not. Due to her last name, I highly doubt t she'd get as far as she has in the SAN let alone make it to the rank of Gunnery Chief being a xenophobe.

[RamirezWolfen]

naledgeborn wrote...

Ashley's probably never seen an alien in her life prior to Mass Effect. Couple that with the personal experience of her grandfather's humiliation and a strong sense of human nationalism it's easy to see why she would be confused for a xenophobe. Which she is not. Due to her last name, I highly doubt t she'd get as far as she has in the SAN let alone make it to the rank of Gunnery Chief being a xenophobe.

Don't they have like TV or something in the future? She had to see at least one on TV.

[Collider]

I bet EVERY woman is a bit snarky when a discussion with the competitor takes place.

Every woman is an individual. They don't have to bring up race like Ashley did in the confrontation. Liara is a person first and foremost.

[naledgeborn]

RamirezWolfen wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Ashley's probably never seen an alien in her life prior to Mass Effect. Couple that with the personal experience of her grandfather's humiliation and a strong sense of human nationalism it's easy to see why she would be confused for a xenophobe. Which she is not. Due to her last name, I highly doubt t she'd get as far as she has in the SAN let alone make it to the rank of Gunnery Chief being a xenophobe.

Don't they have like TV or something in the future? She had to see at least one on TV.

TV is one thing. Being in front of an alien species for the first time is another. I know I wouldn't know what to expect even I I were in Mass Effect's timeline. I wouldn't just go up to Garrus and give him dap you know what I mean?

[naledgeborn]

Collider wrote...

I bet EVERY woman is a bit snarky when a discussion with the competitor takes place.

Every woman is an individual. They don't have to bring up race like Ashley did in the confrontation. Liara is a person first and foremost.

Yeah I think women hate being generalized. Which was a generalization. I can't win.

[Collider]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

Nobody's denying that Ashley has some degree of bias against aliens, of course that gets out in this love triangle scene (because, you know, these things usually bring out the worst in people and magnify it to huge proportions), but that doesn't make her a full blown xenophobe.

Racism isn't an on-off switch. There are degrees of racism. From slightly to majorly.
Hence, calling her racist is not the equivalent to calling her a monster.

[CptData]

Collider wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

Nobody's denying that Ashley has some degree of bias against aliens, of course that gets out in this love triangle scene (because, you know, these things usually bring out the worst in people and magnify it to huge proportions), but that doesn't make her a full blown xenophobe.

Racism isn't an on-off switch. There are degrees of racism. From slightly to majorly.
Hence, calling her racist is not the equivalent to calling her a monster.

Compared to today standards, Ashley is open minded and a humanist.

And I know what I'm talking about. I've seen full blown racists who wouldn't mind if taking a gun to shoot whomever they don't like to those who're discriminating people just because of their skin or eyes - and work for big companies. Ashley is "above" them.

Lets say it like this: I never saw a man or woman that's not a racist if you see Ashley as racist. And I have friends all over the world - which is not too unlikely for a 30y old guy. They all are racists to a degree, like you said from "slightly to majorly". Most of my friends are more "slightly", I don't have "majorly racist" friends.

So, I'm out before stuff becomes political incorrect.

[Lucky Thirteen]

Kaidan is the better spectre if you're looking for someone who is more likely to think. More passive, paragon.

Ashley is the better spectre if you're looking for someone who is more likely to take action. More aggressive, more renegade.

They're just two sides of the same, very capable spectre coin in my opinion.

Also, guys, drop the racism crap. Garrus and Pressly got around their dislike/mistrust of aliens after working with them in ME1, it is highly likely in the two years since Shepard last actually got to work with Ashley, she's a lot less biased. If she was so extremely racist, you'd think she'd fully support Cerberus like a bunch of other alien racist do, instead of make such a stink about Shepard working with them.

[Meldwyn301]

Both would be great!

[CrazyCatDude]

Honestly, Ashley would make a much better Spectre. Ashley is an all around better soldier than Kaidan. Listen to her dialogs on the Citadel in ME1. She thinks like a soldier, assessing tactical advantages, finding choke points and defensive positions. Yes, she's a tiny bit xenophobic, but hell, Shepard's said a lot worse than she has in some renegade dialogs (Use the renegade dialog during the hostage situation in LotSB. I half expected Liara to hit Shepard with the table when it was over).

Kaidan, on the other hand, would actually make a decent ambassador, possibly even a decent Councilor, but he's not half the soldier Ashley is. Hell, he's not half the soldier Joker is.

[Meldwyn301]

oh, and on the xenophobe discussion... she is not xenophobic, "an unreasonable fear of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange". Her outlook is not unreasonable at all.

She is wary and cautious in accepting aliens as friends at first sight. Who wouldn't be? I would be the exact same way. Just watch "When Mars Attacks" some time and tell me we should just open wide our arms for a huge group hug with any and all aliens at first sight. Um, not me!

[BatmanPWNS]

They both suck. I rather have Jacob become one.

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Due to the fact that Me (the player) is more of a paragon, I choose Kaidan.

[naledgeborn]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

They both suck. I rather have Jacob become one.

+1

[ADLegend21]

They're both awesome spectre's. That's why there can only be one a t atime or else the Reapers would just give up and we'd have no third.

Harbinger: We are ready, wait, do they have both Ashley Williams and Kaidan Alenko? Okay everyone turn around we must wait until one of them perishes of old age, back to dark space!

[Xilizhra]

Compared to today standards, Ashley is open minded and a humanist.

Today's standards? Today's standards where?

it is highly likely in the two years since Shepard last actually got to work with Ashley, she's a lot less biased.

"I'm no fan of aliens"

[PauseforEffect]

To be honest, that seems more like an apples and oranges comparison. Both are competent enough to get the job done, but it's their methods that would separate their results. Ashley's more the type to shoot them and be done with it while Kaiden's clearly the negotiator.
To each their own, the same as with the variety of Shepards played and the outcomes fought for.

[ADLegend21]

Xilizhra wrote...

"I'm no fan of aliens"

I'm no fan of the new york Yankees but that doesn't mean they're not a talented baseball team. She might nit be a fan of aliens but that doesn't mean she looks down on tem and thinks of herself as superior.

[Xilizhra]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

"I'm no fan of aliens"

I'm no fan of the new york Yankees but that doesn't mean they're not a talented baseball team. She might nit be a fan of aliens but that doesn't mean she looks down on tem and thinks of herself as superior.

Then what's the point of saying it? Why doesn't she just say that Cerberus is extremist?

In any case, in common colloquial terms, saying you don't like something is generally the same as saying you dislike something. Ditto for this expression.

[ADLegend21]

Xilizhra wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

"I'm no fan of aliens"

I'm no fan of the new york Yankees but that doesn't mean they're not a talented baseball team. She might nit be a fan of aliens but that doesn't mean she looks down on tem and thinks of herself as superior.

Then what's the point of saying it? Why doesn't she just say that Cerberus is extremist?

In any case, in common colloquial terms, saying you don't like something is generally the same as saying you dislike something. Ditto for this expression.

your point? Disliking something doesn't mean you look down on it, it jsut doesn't effect you positively. Someone's dislike of something doesn't take away from it, it just means they aren't inclined to agree with it. She's not gonna be spouting how much she loves aliens but she's not a zealot like the Terra firma party who protest on an alien station (Repaer station actually) or Cerberus who use violent methods when retrieving someone from the migrant fleet. She's well within her rights to not like Aliens it's not a presrequisite for living last time I checked. She still works well with the STG on Virmire, works well with Wrex, Garrus, Tali, and Liara in combat during ME1. you're making a mountain of a mole hill with that quote.

[CrazyRah]

Both of them're good spectres. Kaidan got his strong sides and Ashley got her strong sides and they're both good at what they're doing.