135 réponses à ce sujet

[Carl the Keeper]

As it has been established, each new DA game will feature a new protagonist. That means neither the warden nor Hawke will return as PC in DA3.
Although the developers may have good reasons for this decision, and I enjoyed playing both games (thats right, I enjoyed DA2, sue me), I sometimes feel there is something missing.
What I enjoyed very much about ME2 were those moments where you think "Right, I did that" or the NPCs affirming that they already met you before ("Oh, it's you again"). The moment at the beginning when you realize that this is "your" Shepard, only yours and nobody elses and he/she is back. There is emotion in that. You can see a connection between those two games which directly enhances the experience of playing each of them. IMO that is one reason why so many people seem so hyped about ME3.
This connection is so much weaker within the DA franchise. The series could really profit from a returning PC and the player commitment it brings with it.

I therefore strongly support the idea of a DA trilogy, starting with either DA3 or the game after that, featuring a NEW returning protagonist. (Not talking about warden or Hawke)

What do you think?

edit: added explicitly that I DON'T talk about the warden or Hawke returning

Modifié par Carl the Keeper, 26 octobre 2011 - 08:33 .

[esper]

I strongly disagree. There is no common enemy, no reapers to fight. Also there is a certain amount of crap you can put one person through.

[Huntress]

I like to play as hawke! and DA trilogy about hawke would be awesome! but, many players get bored with 1 character as main as the "me" series.
I don't mind to start with a new characters in DA universe because all of them appear to be in a new country and a peace the players who wants to start anew.

[Arken]

I have no problem with a returning protagonist if the story works for a trilogy.

The Warden's story is over. The Warden is either dead, with Morrigan, in the Anderfels, etc. Trying to put the Warden in Dragon Age II would have made every choice in Dragon Age Origins feel cheap.

Hawke is a different story. Hawke's story is essentially the story of a refugee who is acquainted with individuals who change Thedas. Hawke isn't a hero on a quest. S/he was just a champion who has there when it began.

The mage/templar war is not Hawke's story because s/he has no personal stake in it.

If the Warden suddenly became involved in the mage/templar war it would make no sense. The Warden might not even be alive when this war happens. Though Cassandra's quote, "Gone. Like the Warden." can be interpreted differently.

1) Bioware has made yet another retcon and the Warden survives the first game regardless of our actions.
2) The Warden Cassandra referred to was the Orlesian Warden or a different Warden who is connected to the overarching plot.

If the main character of Dragon Age III's story requires more than one game to complete it than I am fine with that. Although neither Hawke or the Warden has a logical reason to return. Perhaps Hawke, but I can't see why Hawke would be needed as a Hero. Hawke doesn't have any reason to fight in the mage/templar war. Hawke's story is about how the war started not the wo/man who ends it.

So in short I'm fine with a protagonist who is in more than one game as long as it makes sense. They're ultimate goal would have to require more than one game to resolve.

[thats1evildude]

esper wrote...

Also there is a certain amount of crap you can put one person through.

That's probably the strongest argument against a single protagonist right there.

WIth any gaming system that allows a character to become stronger through the accumulation of XP, eventually they reach a point where there's virtually nothing you can throw at them that a) they haven't faced a thousand times before, or can actually threaten them. That's partly why Shepard dies prior to the main story of ME2: so that the player can effectively start as a "new character" while still controlling the same person.

Plus, from a story perspective, what else is there for the Warden/Hawke to do? Shepard can remain the main protagonist of the Mass Effect series because he's fighting out a one-man war against the same foe throughout the franchise — namely, the Reapers. After defeating the Blight and ending the threat of the Mother, what else was there for the Warden to do? What else was there for Hawke to do after battling the Arishok and Meredith?

Modifié par thats1evildude, 26 octobre 2011 - 07:43 .

[element eater]

its good as long as they can start making characters feel nicely concluded by the end of there game/dlc/expansion period. Its annoying moving on to a new character when it feels like they've got more to do

[Carl the Keeper]

thats1evildude wrote...

esper wrote...

Also there is a certain amount of crap you can put one person through.

That's probably the strongest argument against a single protagonist right there.

WIth any gaming system that allows a character to become stronger through the accumulation of XP, eventually they reach a point where there's virtually nothing you can throw at them that a) they haven't faced a thousand times before, or can actually threaten them.

That's partly why Shepard dies prior to the main story of ME2: so that the player can effectively start as a "new character" while still controlling the same person.

Plus, from a story perspective, what else is there for the Warden/Hawke to do? Shepard can remain the main protagonist of the Mass Effect series because he's fighting out a one-man war against the same foe throughout the franchise — namely, the Reapers. After defeating the Blight and ending the threat of the Mother, what else was there for the Warden to do? What else was there for Hawke to do after battling the Arishok and Meredith?

I'm sorry if didn't make myself clear in the OP. This was not meant as a petition to bring back Hawke or the warden. They can rest in peace or do whatever they want after their story was told.
I'm talking about the new guy/girl in DA3 or beyond.

As for the matter of a common enemy: It's a fantasy world. There is always a place for new threat or an ancient evil to (re)emerge. I don't expect anything incredibly original here. I can live with a well executed cliché.

I noticed that many people have problems with the levelling issue. Personally I never really cared about that since contemporary games have the enemies levelling up with the player. I can easily ingnore the storytelling implications of a character stating at level 1 again. But I understand, that it matters to a lot of people.

[thats1evildude]

Carl the Keeper wrote...

I'm sorry if didn't make myself clear in the OP. This was not meant as a petition to bring back Hawke or the warden. They can rest in peace or do whatever they want after their story was told.

And I understood you. I was just using Hawke and the Warden as examples.

"Running out of crap to do" is going to be a problem with any new protagonist.

[Aaleel]

Well they've started down the different protagonist for each game road, so I would prefer they kept it that way now.

I liked it in ME, three games one ongoing storyline, returning squad members who have been involved in the story from the start.

The missed the boat for Dragon Age I think. They've pretty much said the series is about the world and not any one person.  They would have to start an ongoing storyline in the third installment of the series. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 26 octobre 2011 - 08:05 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

esper wrote...

I strongly disagree. There is no common enemy, no reapers to fight.  Also there is a certain amount of crap you can put one person through.

This.  Dragon Age's writers like to torture their protagonists (not that I'm complaining), and after a whole game of relative misery, Warden/Hawke/future hero deserves a break. 

Also, a new protagonist gives a perfect opportunity for new companions.  I enjoyed the companions in Awakenings, but, at the same time, I wanted to know where the **** my Warden's LI, dog, and stealthy assassin went. 

[maxernst]

Arken wrote...

I have no problem with a returning protagonist if the story works for a trilogy.

The Warden's story is over. The Warden is either dead, with Morrigan, in the Anderfels, etc. Trying to put the Warden in Dragon Age II would have made every choice in Dragon Age Origins feel cheap.

Yes, this is the fundamental problem in my view. If you want meaningful character choices, you can't have the main character return and you need to have the story take place somewhere where the previous game's events have little impact.  Otherwise you have the problems of Awakening, which contradicts the choices made by many players.

And I do have a problem with starting off at level one again.  They sort of justify it in ME2, but in general,  it makes no sense for my mage warden/Hawke shouldn't have forgotten all his spells.  Besides, the practice of leveling up the entire world with the player immersion-breaking, illogical and defeats the purpose of gaining levels.  If they want to make games in which the characters don't really gain in power as the game progresses, they should simply abolish the whole levels and experience thing entirely.

[eroeru]

@thatsoneevildude

God damit. You should put the *SPOILERS* sign to your posts if you want to point out a main character dying at some point.
(I've played a bit of Mass Effect, postponed the playthrough indefinitely though).

But as of the topic, I would hate to see Hawke return. And the Warden returning as a playable character is near impossible. So, yeah, a different char for each game is sound enough.

[mousestalker]

I think they need to use Shepherd as the PC for DA3.

"Look Shepherd, Darkspawn!"

<Zorch><Zorch><Zorch><Zorch>

"What's next on the list?"

"It says here we need to look for a mine"

"Calibrating..."

[Chaos Lord Malek]

I would actually like if Hawke was main character for Dragon Age 3. Though i would also like if its Qunari or something new.

I could eat up through a set character as well (like Planescape Torment or Witcher) but i think it should offset by a LOT of options and a lot more variety in each character.
One thing i would like is to have every 'playable'(PC+companions) character in game unique class with completely own talent/skill trees.

[Eternal Phoenix]

I like the idea of a new hero for each game. Dragon Age is supposed to be about different events and different heroes playing their roles in them. Simply put: Dragon Age is about Thedas and well...the Dragon Age and the events in it. It's not about one man/woman.

Though personally, I wouldn't mind if we played as The Warden (which I doubt will happen) or Hawke in the next Dragon Age game. However, if one guy got three games dedicated to him, it wouldn't be fair on the other heroes I guess.

I like the idea of my heroes all roaming the world though. Think about it, if your Warden didn't die, he's still alive, roaming Thedas or whatever. Same goes for Hawke and then for the next hero. You then feel as though you've built the history and lore of the game as you play the next one. Hopefully decisions made in Dragon Age 2 will have more effect in Dragon Age 3. When importing saves from Origins to Dragon Age 2, I felt that not much was different. Only a few dialogue differences and in one case, a quick quest.

The end choice of Dragon Age 2 should hopefully have a big effect on Dragon Age 3 and make each playthrough starting from the beginning different from each other. There should also be different side quests as a result.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 26 octobre 2011 - 08:40 .

[upsettingshorts]

Only reason I will miss Hawke is Nicholas Boulton.

[dsl08002]

It is ok to bring back a new character but it is not ok when you have a story with a protaganist that isn´t over yet,

hawke dissapears in the ending of DA2 and the warden does to.

Some has said that they had made the US for the warden but some didn´t,

Mine for example lived on and travels with a romanced Leliana, later the warden becomes the warden commander, later travels down to amgarak and then tries to find morrigan for answers in the Witch hunt dlc.

Just been able to continue the story of my character was very fun,

So yes i want to be able to continue on my character from origin in the next game but only because it wasn´t conclusion on the story, it was just in my opinion at least a new beginning of an adventure with the warden.

hawke was fun to play but i enjoyed to play the warden more.

that is exactly why in my opinion think that you could be able to play as either warden, hawke or new protaganist.

I belive it is a good compromis even if bioware has stated that it would be a new protaganist.

[Carl the Keeper]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

esper wrote...

I strongly disagree. There is no common enemy, no reapers to fight.  Also there is a certain amount of crap you can put one person through.

This.  Dragon Age's writers like to torture their protagonists (not that I'm complaining), and after a whole game of relative misery, Warden/Hawke/future hero deserves a break. 

Also, a new protagonist gives a perfect opportunity for new companions.  I enjoyed the companions in Awakenings, but, at the same time, I wanted to know where the **** my Warden's LI, dog, and stealthy assassin went. 

Agreed. In DA games the protagonist has to go through a lot. But isn't "extensive crap-taking capabilities" part of the job description for a hero? After all we're not talking about common people here.
Also there is opportunity for character development through dialogue in dealing with the aftermath of said crap.
But I agree, for a trilogy the amount of physical and psychological torture needs to be reduced to a reasonable level per game. (depending on your decisions, DA2 is horrifiyng in that regard)

Modifié par Carl the Keeper, 26 octobre 2011 - 09:33 .

[Morroian]

New protagonists every game are a good idea, it totally removes the issues with those who dislike a character and the issue with having to neuter them every game.

[esper]

Carl the Keeper wrote...

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

esper wrote...

I strongly disagree. There is no common enemy, no reapers to fight.  Also there is a certain amount of crap you can put one person through.

This.  Dragon Age's writers like to torture their protagonists (not that I'm complaining), and after a whole game of relative misery, Warden/Hawke/future hero deserves a break. 

Also, a new protagonist gives a perfect opportunity for new companions.  I enjoyed the companions in Awakenings, but, at the same time, I wanted to know where the **** my Warden's LI, dog, and stealthy assassin went. 

Agreed. In DA games the protagonist has to go through a lot. But isn't "extensive crap-taking capabilities" part of the job description for a hero? After all we're not talking about common people here.
Also there is opportunity for character development through dialogue in dealing with the aftermath of said crap.
But I agree, for a trilogy the amount of physical and psychological torture needs to be reduced to a reasonable level per game. (depending on your decisions, DA2 is horrifiyng in that regard)

(Laughs) So true. Glad I don't have that job. But I want my warden to by happy killing crows in Antiva untill her calling. Wardens only have a limited lifespann, I just don't think it is fair for her to waste it on another forced adventure. Awakening was it for my warden, it felt like a finish.
As for my Hawke I am all for finishing her story in a dlc, but if I can't have my LI (and preferably my brother, but that is not a must) with me I properly won't play it. Because unlike Surana I sort of don't think that my Hawke would never leave her Li behind. (She would seriously worry about him being killed if she wasn't there to protect him.)

[maxernst]

Morroian wrote...

New protagonists every game are a good idea, it totally removes the issues with those who dislike a character and the issue with having to neuter them every game.

Well, the issue of disliking is character is best dealt with by allowing a player more freedom to define his character.  While I liked my Hawke's personality, I couldn't empathize with the decisions the game forced upon him in a number of situations.  Though I will say, I might have been tempted to try the Witcher 2, if I could have played somebody other than Geralt.

[Costello_Anasazi]

I much prefered playing the Warden to Hawke.

It was DA:O that introducted me to the world of Dragon Age it was his exploits and the amazing experience that had me pre-ordering DA:2 and it was with a deep feeling of disappointment that the story felt so unfinished.

If you get all the way through to Witch Hunt and pick up the book at the end you learn nothing of what was in it or what happened to your child. To me this isn't the conclusion of your story. And it needs to be carried on with it being a real shame it wasn't continued in DA:2. I think starting over again with a generic hero felt bland and detracted from my enjoyment of DA:2. But worse than this all the emotional attachment I had developed to my Warden only made Hawkes many short comings feel even more obvious. Not to mention that he really had no control over events in DA:2 now if you were playing Anders you would have had more control.

As such I think introducing a third main character for DA:3 will further reduce any feelings of it being a sequal and more independent games. Mass Effect has it right and has lead to me eagerly anticipating ME3 to see what happens to my Commander Shepard. As for DA:3 well that just doesn't have the same emotional attachment cause it will be a new character in an unrelated story that is likely to have very little to do with the previous 2 games (and DLCs).

[Jessihatt]

I prefer the Warden to Hawke also, but I like the idea of each game producing a new hero to play as.
DLC and expansions are for playing as the same character!
I'd likely get bored of playing as the same character again and again, and surely the ideas for that character would deteriorate (Shepard being the exception, as it was planned as a trilogy from the start and addressed accordingly).

[TEWR]

It's a good thing imo.

[ReallyRue]

As I'm sure I've said before, I like the changing main character. DA to me is more about Thedas than any one individual. I can see the DA series continuing inevitably, whereas I can't see where ME will go once it's done with Shepard.

Besides, I like shaping new characters, how they look, their personalities, backgrounds and morals. My Warden and Hawke were very different, and my DA3 character will be different again. And I like the idea that there's more than one 'hero' in the world.