135 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyne]

It WOULD have been neat if the Warden character continued on in DA2+, but obviously that didn't happen, so the next best thing is to get a new protagonist each time. And a lot of characters do recur, like the Templar Cullen, so there is some continuity there.

[OdanUrr]

I think ME spoiled us into thinking or wishing the PC would remain as such throughout a series. But ME is rather the exception to the rule in that respect. The PC changed in the Neverwinter series, same with Kotor, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, etc., and they are still great games (some more than others).

So, to answer the question, no, it's not necessarily a bad thing provided each installment brings to a satisfying close the PC's story.

[Sylvanpyxie]

The PC changed in the Neverwinter series

Actually a lot of both Neverwinter games turned out to be a carry on from previous characters.

SotU expac -> HotU expac.
NwN2 -> MotB.

The only things that were official "stand alone" characters were the original NwN campaign and Obsidian's Storm of What'sitdoodle. ( To use the technical term. )

Uhm, that's off-topic. Sorry. :/

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 27 octobre 2011 - 02:50 .

[OdanUrr]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

Actually a lot of both Neverwinter games turned out to be a carry on from previous characters.

The expansions weren't quite what I had in mind when I wrote that but I see your point.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 27 octobre 2011 - 02:53 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

DA 2 left a bad taste in my mouth for several reasons. One was that I didn't find Hawke interesting at all, and the limited options to customize Hawke's class and appearance didn't make up for the limited roleplaying options or the flat, set character offered. I hope Hawke doesn't come back in DA 2, and the approach to handling the main character is more dynamic in DA 3 as well. If Bioware wants to make a set main character in DA 3, they need to own that character. Shepard works because Shepard has personality in the Mass Effect series, Hawke...just is bland to me.

[Nilbog79]

The Warden already had a hand in many key events in Ferelden at least, same for Hawke in Kirkwall. They've both done enough, having either of them decide the outcome of the mage - templar war as well would start getting a bit ridiculous.
Besides, I think I prefer a character that starts off from complete obscurity than starting off as an already legendary character.

[Tezkk340]

Nilbog79 wrote...

The Warden already had a hand in many key events in Ferelden at least, same for Hawke in Kirkwall. They've both done enough, having either of them decide the outcome of the mage - templar war as well would start getting a bit ridiculous.
Besides, I think I prefer a character that starts off from complete obscurity than starting off as an already legendary character.

I honestly feel I need to agree with the last part of this post. If Hawke hadn't been the PC in DA2 and instead your Warden carried over the story that happened in DA2 could not of honestly taken place. Your Warden in DAO is a legend. They killed the archdemon and saved Fereldan. They command a Warden army if they choose to and are backed by the King of Ferelden, or queen depending how you went about playing it. If you start a game off as someone like that in a sequel there really wouldn't of been a story that really connected the player with the character they are playing as.

What I mean is, in DAO you made your character, and you built them up from scratch. If you could import the Warden Commander version of your DAO champion over to DA2 where exactly is the fun of building yourself up, if you can just call forth a warden and fereldan army to stomp out either the mages or the templars of Kirkwall and be done with it? The 1 chantry of Kirkwall can't stand against the Fereldan army.

TL;DR It's refreshing to have a new protagonist for the games because it gives you a real feel of connection to that character while you build them up from nothing, into fame and glory.

[labargegrrrl]

i almost didn't play DA2 because i was so in love with my Warden.  i'm glad i changed my mind.

and i was sad when they decided not to bring back Hawke because i didn't get any closure, in the end.

but then i decided that's awesome.

i'm into getting emotionally wrapped up in characters only to be heartbroken that i'll never see them again.  i'm kind of a glutton for punishment like that.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I am more than happy to have a new protagonist every game. I would like to know what happened to my Warden(s) - the ones who aren't dead, anyway - and Hawke(s) eventually, though.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Carl the Keeper wrote...
As it has been established, each new DA game will feature a new protagonist. That means neither the warden nor Hawke will return as PC in DA3.
Although the developers may have good reasons for this decision, and I enjoyed playing both games (thats right, I enjoyed DA2, sue me), I sometimes feel there is something missing.
What I enjoyed very much about ME2 were those moments where you think "Right, I did that" or the NPCs affirming that they already met you before ("Oh, it's you again"). The moment at the beginning when you realize that this is "your" Shepard, only yours and nobody elses and he/she is back. There is emotion in that. You can see a connection between those two games which directly enhances the experience of playing each of them. IMO that is one reason why so many people seem so hyped about ME3.
This connection is so much weaker within the DA franchise. The series could really profit from a returning PC and the player commitment it brings with it.

I agree except that there is no "your" Shepard or "Hawke" for me. The ones  that I've played belong to "everyone else" Shepard and Hawke since I couldn't bring myself to role-play them. They are so generic and boring cinematic  semi AI and semi preset character. Therefore, ME3 is not for me. It's a shooter with rpg element. Nothing else. Not my kind of game. However, I do feel such emotion when Cassandra did mentioned about the warden being "gone" at the end of DA2. Of course the warden is gone. He already entered the the eluvian mirror with Morrigan and he's not coming back. Cassandra can dream other wardens but not my warden(s) or my deceased Hero of Ferelden.

Carl the Keeper wrote...

I therefore strongly support the idea of a DA trilogy, starting with either DA3 or the game after that, featuring a NEW returning protagonist. (Not talking about warden or Hawke)

What do you think?

edit: added explicitly that I DON'T talk about the warden or Hawke returning

It depends on the character and story. If it's set character then I don't care. I'm not going to buy that kind of  fixed character. But if it's going to be the real player character ( the one that you create yourself  )  and the story is not viewed from other person perspective which could possibly mess up with how I view the world as the character himself, then I'm all for it.  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:25 .

[Alyka]

I'm not totally against having a fixed protagonist.As long as he or she fits into the story/DA universe.
Hypothetically speaking; If it was their idea from the start, then they should have put the character into Origins.I mean what would have been the purpose of DA:O? An introduction and nothing more? The Warden gets one game but the new character gets 5? He better have a really important role to earn it.
I also think that starting over with a new PC for each game gives a different perspective to the events going on around them.That to me is exciting.

[Yuqi]

A new protagonist every game,or using the same protagonist every game, both are risky. I think the more important thing is, other characters relationships to the warden/hawke. I mean in RL if your friend/Li suddenly vanished, you would be worried, forever wondering if there dead or alive, grieving, ect.

[Its Warden Commander to YOU]

OdanUrr wrote..
So, to answer the question, no, it's not necessarily a bad thing provided each installment brings to a satisfying close the PC's story.

which they didn't do.

The Warden had a very good ending in DAO, ruined By Witch Hunt, then in DA2 it can be assumed that the Warden went back to Ferelden, as Alistair says, then they make him Disappear.

And Now Hawke disappears for absolutely no reason.

Making a main character disappear for no reason is silly, and not resolving that is pathetically lazy.

Besides, as a little extra note, this could end up being another BioWare Cliche, and at this point, i Don't think they need another one.

[whykikyouwhy]

Perhaps it's a bit premature to declare lack of resolution a result of laziness. All we have seen thus far is lack of *immediate* resolution. That doesn't mean that we won't, somewhere down the line, find out what happens to the heroes, nor does it imply that when we do find out, we won't be satisfied with the details (collectively - I'm sure that no matter how good and robust the details are, some will find fault with them).

We've only had 2 games this far, and several DLC. I feel pretty confident that we'll have some answers further down the line. We just need to wait for the story to unfold.

[Its Warden Commander to YOU]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Perhaps it's a bit premature to declare lack of resolution a result of laziness. All we have seen thus far is lack of *immediate* resolution. That doesn't mean that we won't, somewhere down the line, find out what happens to the heroes, nor does it imply that when we do find out, we won't be satisfied with the details (collectively - I'm sure that no matter how good and robust the details are, some will find fault with them).

Let me put with better words:

i still think that not resolving a MAIN CHARACTER'S story ark is lazy, but yes, i'll have to wait.
But then again, i think Throwing away THE MAIN PROTAGONIST and resolving with Something "Durr je's DeTH lol" or "hez zomwere elz lol" is also lazy, which, giving BW's insistance in putting new protagonist for each game (which i think is just a whim at this point giving that a main plot will be giving to another character that we have never heard before is silly as well, imo, in fact, is Deus Ex Machina, a mark of Lazy writing), i don't see any other possible way of resolving, and not to mention some of the of the important story arks left without resolving (such as the OGB) will NEVER have the powerful resolution they deserve without their respective protagonist.

Modifié par Its Warden Commander to YOU, 27 octobre 2011 - 03:22 .

[whykikyouwhy]

@Its Warden Commander to YOU - Just curious what you think the main plot of the DA-verse happens to be. Again, we've only had 2 games, and each has carried a story set in the universe - a chapter, if you will, in a much larger narrative. Just as I feel it's too early to declare certain writing/dev decisions lazy, I feel it's too early to say we know what the collective story is going to be about or focused on.

We're given a new character each game so that we can immerse ourselves in that particular chapter, focus on one small area of the the entire world. I don't know that it would make sense to have the Warden (for example) go trudging around handing the issue with the Arishok, etc in DA2. And at some point, the timeline in the larger story may jump forward. The Warden (if alive) has a good 30 years under his/her belt. I don't know that I would want to play a character too old, feeble, or blighted to carry a blade.

But that's just me.

I understand that you have your stance...cool, that's your opnion. But I personally feel that citing laziness just because an immediate answer is not given is somewhat unfair. I can't read the minds of the devs...I can't anticipate what they have planned, nor do I want to assume anything beyond speculation. They may fully intend to resolve many of the major plot points, just not right now.

[Its Warden Commander to YOU]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

@Its Warden Commander to YOU - Just curious what you think the main plot of the DA-verse happens to be. Again, we've only had 2 games, and each has carried a story set in the universe - a chapter, if you will, in a much larger narrative. Just as I feel it's too early to declare certain writing/dev decisions lazy, I feel it's too early to say we know what the collective story is going to be about or focused on.

We're given a new character each game so that we can immerse ourselves in that particular chapter, focus on one small area of the the entire world. I don't know that it would make sense to have the Warden (for example) go trudging around handing the issue with the Arishok, etc in DA2. And at some point, the timeline in the larger story may jump forward. The Warden (if alive) has a good 30 years under his/her belt. I don't know that I would want to play a character too old, feeble, or blighted to carry a blade.

But that's just me.

I understand that you have your stance...cool, that's your opnion. But I personally feel that citing laziness just because an immediate answer is not given is somewhat unfair. I can't read the minds of the devs...I can't anticipate what they have planned, nor do I want to assume anything beyond speculation. They may fully intend to resolve many of the major plot points, just not right now.

of course.

Everything i said it's just my opinion, and i never suggested that not giving us a quick answer is lazy, i simply said that if they don't resolve it At all, it's lazy, but, again, you're right and i should wait and see what happens.

i call them lazy because, in my eyes, i don't see how can they resolve(properly, anybody could put a random character in the game, and have him be like "Durr, garden an hawk ar deth lol") all of this without certain aspects that, apperantly, they won't be doing.

it just seems, to me, that BW just overly complicated the issue by making the story of DA2 what it is.

but for now is nothing more than speculation.

but whatever, let's just wait and see what happens.

[Wulfram]

Considering how badly they handled the Warden in DA2, I really can't see them handling a whole bunch of ex-PCs hanging around in the future.

[dheer]

I think it was a mistake but sadly, that ship has sailed.

It didn't need to be trilogies for each pc but a large throne of bhaal type expansion pack or a second game to show your character the results of decisions made and/or a proper end would have been great.

It certainly felt to me that there was much more to do as both the Warden and Hawke. Maybe we'll see a decent ending to Hawke, however. Too bad it'll most likely be in a dlc, so many who don't buy them will never see it.

[dsl08002]

I think it would be a good idea to make One final game with the warden because then you could make a final and valid conclusion to his or her story in order to continue ön a New character

[AlexXIV]

dsl08002 wrote...

I think it would be a good idea to make One final game with the warden because then you could make a final and valid conclusion to his or her story in order to continue ön a New character

The problem Bioware would have with that are the dead Wardens. Basically it's like making it canon that the Warden did not die in the Battle of Denerim. People may be quite unhappy or even not buy the game at all. Even though I would rather have my Warden back than Hawke or a new protagonist. Not that a new protagonist could not be interesting, after all they always manage to do that. But ... well ... if you get to meet people you know as cameos it would be nice to be the one who met them in the first place.

[Sunnie]

Wulfram wrote...

Considering how badly they handled the Warden in DA2, I really can't see them handling a whole bunch of ex-PCs hanging around in the future.

wut?

I don't recall them "handling" the Warden in DA2 at all.

There were a few references here and there (the only important one was in the closing movie) but nothing more. The game wasn't about the Warden, it was about Hawke and the Amells. Or did I miss something?

[csfteeeer]

AlexXIV wrote...

The problem Bioware would have with that are the dead Wardens. Basically it's like making it canon that the Warden did not die in the Battle of Denerim. People may be quite unhappy or even not buy the game at all. Even though I would rather have my Warden back than Hawke or a new protagonist. Not that a new protagonist could not be interesting, after all they always manage to do that. But ... well ... if you get to meet people you know as cameos it would be nice to be the one who met them in the first place.

i disagree.

A Main Character is hardly the reason why people
wouldn't buy a game, nad the Warden isn't an pop culture icon or
anything, so if anything, it would only affect a small portion.

Besides, a Writer should know that the destiny of a main character, that could potentially be important, shouldn't be left in the players hands, and if they do, then they create a canon for it(like The Fallout Writing team).

i fully support the idea of canonizing the warden in any way, either by canonizing the US or the OGB, any canon.

[Mr.House]

csfteeeer wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The problem Bioware would have with that are the dead Wardens. Basically it's like making it canon that the Warden did not die in the Battle of Denerim. People may be quite unhappy or even not buy the game at all. Even though I would rather have my Warden back than Hawke or a new protagonist. Not that a new protagonist could not be interesting, after all they always manage to do that. But ... well ... if you get to meet people you know as cameos it would be nice to be the one who met them in the first place.

i disagree.

A Main Character is hardly the reason why people
wouldn't buy a game, nad the Warden isn't an pop culture icon or
anything, so if anything, it would only affect a small portion.

Besides, a Writer should know that the destiny of a main character, that could potentially be important, shouldn't be left in the players hands, and if they do, then they create a canon for it(like The Fallout Writing team).

i fully support the idea of canonizing the warden in any way, either by canonizing the US or the OGB, any canon.

No.

[csfteeeer]

Mr.House wrote...

No.

Yes

Modifié par csfteeeer, 27 octobre 2011 - 04:34 .