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[AlexXIV]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I can say whether it's a good or bad thing, but it definitely loses much of the point of importing a save, you lose all of your investment into that character. In contrast, Mass Effect can seemingly be played as one long game, which I feel help gives you that "neverending feel" you get from bethesda games.

I remember the slogan (probably just marketing) 'the land is the main character'. As in, the player can shape the history of thedas instead of the history of just one person. Well it doesn't happen though, so it's void.

. Thing is though, to be honest I don't find the setting or lore that interesting(bethesda does better lore despite everyone criticizing their writing), it's the characters that sell it to me.

Well it was a new approach and I was curious how it would work. It worked well enough in DA:O because even if the protagonist's path was rather streamlined, you could shape the world a bit. At least that's what I was led to believe. You could strenghten relationships between races, help out dwarves, humans and elves, etc. But that was altogether lost when in DA2 you not only were moved to a place where none of these choices of DA:O mattered, you didn't even get to make any anymore.

[Theagg]

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I can say whether it's a good or bad thing, but it definitely loses much of the point of importing a save, you lose all of your investment into that character. In contrast, Mass Effect can seemingly be played as one long game, which I feel help gives you that "neverending feel" you get from bethesda games.

I remember the slogan (probably just marketing) 'the land is the main character'. As in, the player can shape the history of thedas instead of the history of just one person. Well it doesn't happen though, so it's void.

. Thing is though, to be honest I don't find the setting or lore that interesting(bethesda does better lore despite everyone criticizing their writing), it's the characters that sell it to me.

Well it was a new approach and I was curious how it would work. It worked well enough in DA:O because even if the protagonist's path was rather streamlined, you could shape the world a bit. At least that's what I was led to believe. You could strenghten relationships between races, help out dwarves, humans and elves, etc. But that was altogether lost when in DA2 you not only were moved to a place where none of these choices of DA:O mattered, you didn't even get to make any anymore.

Exactly. Bhelen or Harrowmount on the throne, result....no effect whatsoever that counts on DA2. Mages wiped out at the Circle tower or survived. no effect on DA2. At the most we get a character pop up and mention who is king (in Golems I think) but that in of itself doesn't then change core parts of how the playable tale of the land unfolds.

What would properly demonstrate this evolving character, for example, would be a decent chunk of the game that shifts back to Orzammar, (with a new protagonist or whoever) where events unfold completely differently, with different characters, based on which of those two the Warden put on the throne etc.

[Carl the Keeper]

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I can say whether it's a good or bad thing, but it definitely loses much of the point of importing a save, you lose all of your investment into that character. In contrast, Mass Effect can seemingly be played as one long game, which I feel help gives you that "neverending feel" you get from bethesda games.

I remember the slogan (probably just marketing) 'the land is the main character'. As in, the player can shape the history of thedas instead of the history of just one person. Well it doesn't happen though, so it's void.

. Thing is though, to be honest I don't find the setting or lore that interesting(bethesda does better lore despite everyone criticizing their writing), it's the characters that sell it to me.

Well it was a new approach and I was curious how it would work. It worked well enough in DA:O because even if the protagonist's path was rather streamlined, you could shape the world a bit. At least that's what I was led to believe. You could strenghten relationships between races, help out dwarves, humans and elves, etc. But that was altogether lost when in DA2 you not only were moved to a place where none of these choices of DA:O mattered, you didn't even get to make any anymore.

I agree. The import savegame feature is there, but they don't make good use of it.
It appears they put the feature in there "because ME has one too". If it wasn't there, nobody would have noticed. If the few sentences about the warden had been written gender and race neutral they could have saved the effort entirely.
DAO and DA2 very much feel like standalone games.
For the import savegame feature to make sense without a returning protagonist (I think this makes the best use of importing savegames), you'd have to have other means of facilitating the connection between games. Those could be places or NPCs noticably affected by your decisions. Apparently that wasn't the plan for DA2. I'm still having some hope though that in DA3 we'll see more consequences of our decisions, since it's said we'll revisit some familiar places.
There are not many storybased games the allow importing saves, so I guess developers still have to learn how to make the most out of the storytelling opportunities the feature offers. I also like to think that it is a way to have more players commited more intensely to a franchise.

Modifié par Carl the Keeper, 28 octobre 2011 - 07:01 .

[dsl08002]

Carl the Keeper wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I can say whether it's a good or bad thing, but it definitely loses much of the point of importing a save, you lose all of your investment into that character. In contrast, Mass Effect can seemingly be played as one long game, which I feel help gives you that "neverending feel" you get from bethesda games.

I remember the slogan (probably just marketing) 'the land is the main character'. As in, the player can shape the history of thedas instead of the history of just one person. Well it doesn't happen though, so it's void.

. Thing is though, to be honest I don't find the setting or lore that interesting(bethesda does better lore despite everyone criticizing their writing), it's the characters that sell it to me.

Well it was a new approach and I was curious how it would work. It worked well enough in DA:O because even if the protagonist's path was rather streamlined, you could shape the world a bit. At least that's what I was led to believe. You could strenghten relationships between races, help out dwarves, humans and elves, etc. But that was altogether lost when in DA2 you not only were moved to a place where none of these choices of DA:O mattered, you didn't even get to make any anymore.

I'm still having some hope though that in DA3 we'll see more consequences of our decisions, since it's said we'll revisit some familiar places.
There are not many storybased games the allow importing saves, so I guess developers still have to learn how to make the most out of the storytelling opportunities the feature offers. I also like to think that it is a way to have more players commited more intensely to a franchise.

But it won´t be the same thing going back to the old familiar places with a new protaganist as it is with a previous character.

For example if you return to orzammar as the hero of ferelden,  you will see what has happend when you left the place such as harrowmont has in the rumor died and the dwarf has fight among themself who to be the succesor.

Then in the game you might found out that somebody really tried to poisen harrowmont and you must find the killer.

You start to think in your head: 

"I have not been gone that long" or " what mess i have created"

Do you understand what i mean?

[DeathDragon185]

In DA4 we will have the ultimate showdown between the Warden, Hawke and ??????. and Hawke will win it.

[Rawgrim]

Of course Hawke will win. He only needs to poke his enemies with a dagger, and they explode.

[csfteeeer]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

In DA4 we will have the ultimate showdown between the Warden, Hawke and ??????. and Hawke will win it.

keep dreaming

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Theagg wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I can say whether it's a good or bad thing, but it definitely loses much of the point of importing a save, you lose all of your investment into that character. In contrast, Mass Effect can seemingly be played as one long game, which I feel help gives you that "neverending feel" you get from bethesda games.

I remember the slogan (probably just marketing) 'the land is the main character'. As in, the player can shape the history of thedas instead of the history of just one person. Well it doesn't happen though, so it's void.

. Thing is though, to be honest I don't find the setting or lore that interesting(bethesda does better lore despite everyone criticizing their writing), it's the characters that sell it to me.

Well it was a new approach and I was curious how it would work. It worked well enough in DA:O because even if the protagonist's path was rather streamlined, you could shape the world a bit. At least that's what I was led to believe. You could strenghten relationships between races, help out dwarves, humans and elves, etc. But that was altogether lost when in DA2 you not only were moved to a place where none of these choices of DA:O mattered, you didn't even get to make any anymore.

Exactly. Bhelen or Harrowmount on the throne, result....no effect whatsoever that counts on DA2.

Actually it does matter somewhat more in Dragon Age 2 if you put Bhelen on the throne you can get a quest in Act 1 where you can meet, help, or betray the last of the Harrowmonuts whose is trying to get to Rivian (and later in Act 2 he sends Hawke a letter saying he made it to Kal'Shark or however it's spelled),  to the Carta. If you put Harrowmount on the throne then the quest does not happened. Varric also makes different references about his feelings about each of their various courts when (or if) you give him his father's ring in Act 2. 

Mages wiped out at the Circle tower or survived. no effect on DA2.

Cullen makes several references about that in Dragon Age 2.
 

[csfteeeer]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Theagg wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

I can say whether it's a good or bad thing, but it definitely loses much of the point of importing a save, you lose all of your investment into that character. In contrast, Mass Effect can seemingly be played as one long game, which I feel help gives you that "neverending feel" you get from bethesda games.

I remember the slogan (probably just marketing) 'the land is the main character'. As in, the player can shape the history of thedas instead of the history of just one person. Well it doesn't happen though, so it's void.

. Thing is though, to be honest I don't find the setting or lore that interesting(bethesda does better lore despite everyone criticizing their writing), it's the characters that sell it to me.

Well it was a new approach and I was curious how it would work. It worked well enough in DA:O because even if the protagonist's path was rather streamlined, you could shape the world a bit. At least that's what I was led to believe. You could strenghten relationships between races, help out dwarves, humans and elves, etc. But that was altogether lost when in DA2 you not only were moved to a place where none of these choices of DA:O mattered, you didn't even get to make any anymore.

Exactly. Bhelen or Harrowmount on the throne, result....no effect whatsoever that counts on DA2.

Actually it does matter somewhat more in Dragon Age 2 if you put Bhelen on the throne you can get a quest in Act 1 where you can meet, help, or betray the last of the Harrowmonuts whose is trying to get to Rivian (and later in Act 2 he sends Hawke a letter saying he made it to Kal'Shark or however it's spelled),  to the Carta. If you put Harrowmount on the throne then the quest does not happened. Varric also makes different references about his feelings about each of their various courts when (or if) you give him his father's ring in Act 2. 

Mages wiped out at the Circle tower or survived. no effect on DA2.

Cullen makes several references about that in Dragon Age 2.
 

it's still not enough.
When Main Quest Changes because of how the world changes, when there are new scenarios accessible only through certain decisions, when entire acts change depending on decisions(ala TW2).... then it'll be something worth the damn.

[TheWasian]

Well I just hope that DA 3 has all the good elements from DA:O and DA 2. If not I'm going into a state of denial and say that DA 2 and DA 3 was never made.

As for there being a new protagonist I don't see a problem as your other heroes can be imported and the choices those heroes made are the only influential factors. Just how well it's executed is what I'm worried about.

Modifié par TheWasian, 29 octobre 2011 - 04:40 .

[Zanallen]

csfteeeer wrote...

it's still not enough.
When Main Quest Changes because of how the world changes, when there are new scenarios accessible only through certain decisions, when entire acts change depending on decisions(ala TW2).... then it'll be something worth the damn.

Prepare to be disappointed then. Bioware isn't going to change a whole act based on a decision in a previous game. They might have such a consequence within the game itself, like TW2 does, but they won't have it as consequence of choice from an earlier game.

[csfteeeer]

Zanallen wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

it's still not enough.
When Main Quest Changes because of how the world changes, when there are new scenarios accessible only through certain decisions, when entire acts change depending on decisions(ala TW2).... then it'll be something worth the damn.

Prepare to be disappointed then. Bioware isn't going to change a whole act based on a decision in a previous game. They might have such a consequence within the game itself, like TW2 does, but they won't have it as consequence of choice from an earlier game.

i won't be disappointed cause i know they won't do it.

[Mr.House]

No game has done importing good tbh.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

Mr.House wrote...

No game has done importing good tbh.

Well not many games have tried using importing in the first place,  the only other game outside of bioware, as far as i know, was The Witcher 2.

Modifié par steph285, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:06 .

[csfteeeer]

Mr.House wrote...

No game has done importing good tbh.

that will probably change.

when will it happen however... i have no idea.

Modifié par csfteeeer, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:05 .

[Mr.House]

steph285 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

No game has done importing good tbh.

Well not many games have tried using importing in the first place,  the only other game outside of bioware, as far as i know, was The Witcher 2.

And that made ME2 and DA2 import look fantastic

[AlexXIV]

Mr.House wrote...

steph285 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

No game has done importing good tbh.

Well not many games have tried using importing in the first place,  the only other game outside of bioware, as far as i know, was The Witcher 2.

And that made ME2 and DA2 import look fantastic

There was no import in Witcher 2. If anything then a few dialogue options I completely missed. That's one of the reasons I don't go around pretending that The Witcher 2 was any better than DA2. Graphics maybe, but graphics are not even 2nd or 3rd important in RPGs. Also the ending was just like with DA2. Rushed and cut.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:21 .

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

steph285 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

No game has done importing good tbh.

Well not many games have tried using importing in the first place,  the only other game outside of bioware, as far as i know, was The Witcher 2.

And that made ME2 and DA2 import look fantastic

There was no import in Witcher 2. If anything then a few dialogue options I completely missed. That's one of the reasons I don't go around pretending that The Witcher 2 was any better than DA2. Graphics maybe, but graphics are not even 2nd or 3rd important in RPGs. Also the ending was just like with DA2. Rushed and cut.

You  know Alex you the only one i heard badmouthing The Witcher 2. "flying pigs pass by the window" True though importing in Witcher is crap.
F.Y.I Another game that had a form of importing was infamous 2.

[AlexXIV]

steph285 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

steph285 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

No game has done importing good tbh.

Well not many games have tried using importing in the first place,  the only other game outside of bioware, as far as i know, was The Witcher 2.

And that made ME2 and DA2 import look fantastic

There was no import in Witcher 2. If anything then a few dialogue options I completely missed. That's one of the reasons I don't go around pretending that The Witcher 2 was any better than DA2. Graphics maybe, but graphics are not even 2nd or 3rd important in RPGs. Also the ending was just like with DA2. Rushed and cut.

You  know Alex you the only one i heard badmouthing The Witcher 2. "flying pigs pass by the window" True though importing in Witcher is crap.
F.Y.I Another game that had a form of importing was infamous 2.

I guess every game has their fanboi crowd. I am not one, so I am relatively fair I think. And I have seen a couple of people already in this forum stating that Witcher 2 is crap. I only played it once, and doubt I play it again. I'd actually rather play DA2 again.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

[quote]AlexXIV wrote...
[quote]steph285 wrote...
[quote]AlexXIV wrote...
[quote]Mr.House wrote...
[quote]steph285 wrote...
[quote]Mr.House wrote...
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
I guess every game has their fanboi crowd. I am not one, so I am relatively fair I think. And I have seen a couple of people already in this forum stating that Witcher 2 is crap. I only played it once, and doubt I play it again. I'd actually rather play DA2 again.[/quote]

No saying your wrong, I havent finished Witcher yet but i finished DA 2 about 3 times already! 

Modifié par steph285, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:45 .

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

What the hell does everyone thread end up comparing da and the Witcher? They seem like very different games to me. You play a fixed character and combat is heavily dependent on player skill, both of which I thought you all are strongly against being in da. I think the importing thing is understandable, the first witcher wasn't popular and they probably weren't even sure of the fate of the series' future. CD Projekt doesn't half-arse things, let's see what they do in the witcher 3.

One nice thing about no character import: we get shiny new heads; where Shepard has been stuck with the same horrible one and plastic hair from the first.

[AlexXIV]

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

What the hell does everyone thread end up comparing da and the Witcher? They seem like very different games to me. You play a fixed character and combat is heavily dependent on player skill, both of which I thought you all are strongly against being in da. I think the importing thing is understandable, the first witcher wasn't popular and they probably weren't even sure of the fate of the series' future. CD Projekt doesn't half-arse things, let's see what they do in the witcher 3.

One nice thing about no character import: we get shiny new heads; where Shepard has been stuck with the same horrible one and plastic hair from the first.

You complain about people bringing up Witcher yet you feed the discussion. If CDP wasn't doing half-arsed things, how do you explain Witcher 2? Every single review out there at least mentions the rushed ending.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

AlexXIV wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

What the hell does everyone thread end up comparing da and the Witcher? They seem like very different games to me. You play a fixed character and combat is heavily dependent on player skill, both of which I thought you all are strongly against being in da. I think the importing thing is understandable, the first witcher wasn't popular and they probably weren't even sure of the fate of the series' future. CD Projekt doesn't half-arse things, let's see what they do in the witcher 3.

One nice thing about no character import: we get shiny new heads; where Shepard has been stuck with the same horrible one and plastic hair from the first.

You complain about people bringing up Witcher yet you feed the discussion. If CDP wasn't doing half-arsed things, how do you explain Witcher 2? Every single review out there at least mentions the rushed ending.

Well this thread was too late to be saved :innocent:. Also I meant you shouldn't really compare the two, which I'm not. In fact, I think Mass Effect would be an OK comparison. I actually haven't reached the ending yet, but I think it's possible that's how they wanted it. You'd think with their multi gigabyte patches theywould have fixed it if they wanted to. I dunno maybe I'll change my mind. Keep in mind though that I view "rushing to do the job within the promised time" and doing a DA2 very differently. I know my essays always end up rather uneven. Christ I sound like such a fangirl but I actually don't view the game all that highly as other people. Last sequence in the Kayran fight = Idiotic<_<

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 30 octobre 2011 - 03:52 .

[Theagg]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

Actually it does matter somewhat more in Dragon Age 2 if you put Bhelen on the throne you can get a quest in Act 1 where you can meet, help, or betray the last of the Harrowmonuts whose is trying to get to Rivian (and later in Act 2 he sends Hawke a letter saying he made it to Kal'Shark or however it's spelled),  to the Carta. If you put Harrowmount on the throne then the quest does not happened. Varric also makes different references about his feelings about each of their various courts when (or if) you give him his father's ring in Act 2. 

Mages wiped out at the Circle tower or survived. no effect on DA2.

Cullen makes several references about that in Dragon Age 2.
 

Damn, I could never bring myself to favour the snake Bhelen so will never see that quest then. A pity a similar Harrowmount based quest wasn't put in then for those who put him on the throne.

As to Cullen mentioning stuff, yes but that kind of thing happeneing is what I meant by peripheral mentions of events without them actually impacting on gameplay.. (Like how one of the dwarves in the Golems DLC mentions Harrowmount or Bhelen depending on your choice but beyond that it has no effect on the main game.) More choices in previous installments that effect main gameplay are needed. Mere nods to choices in snippets of conversation but then everything else remaining identical, not so good.

[Theagg]

steph285 wrote...


You  know Alex you the only one i heard badmouthing The Witcher 2. "flying pigs pass by the window" True though importing in Witcher is crap.
F.Y.I Another game that had a form of importing was infamous 2.

No, no, I didn't like the Witcher 2 either. I deleted it pretty early on. But this isn't a thread about that...on the importing thing, its definitely something that needs to be better utilised when carrying 'important' choices from one game to another. At the moment for the most part, its little more than lip service, quite literally, in that its mostly only mentioned in peripheral lines of conversation.