121 réponses à ce sujet

[bmwcrazy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

As a TOR beta tester I am only allowed to say that there is a beta program and I am in it.

Also I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition.

Draw whatever conclusions you will from those two facts.

You don't even get the final product for free?

[AtreiyaN7]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

TOR is pretty meh for me.
I've never been into MMOs, and I don't quite understand the appeal of killing things and collecting stuff for weeks just to level up. Then again...every game is repetitive, that's for sure, but MMOs aren't my cup of tea. They should have made another KOTOR-style game instead of a WOW clone in the world of George Lucas.

What does one do in an RPG? You kill things, collect stuff and level up. The big differences between most MMOs and single-player RPGs are the time-frame (leveling takes longer in MMOs) and the presence/lack of a good story (usually, the MMOs are lacking in that department). With regards to TOR, one of the pillars of the game is supposed to be the class stories. BW is trying to fuse some of the positive things from single-player RPGs, like story and voice-acting, into an MMO. And TOR is supposed to be roughly equivalent to KotOR 3-10 or something to that effect. I think it might be interesting, but we'll find out in December.

[addiction21]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

TOR is pretty meh for me.
I've never been into MMOs, and I don't quite understand the appeal of killing things and collecting stuff for weeks just to level up.

A blatent untruth. Unless your playing something like Silkroad but then given your aversion to MMO's I doubt you have delved to deeply into the grindf fest of asian MMO's and they are far from the normal MMO.

Lord_Valandil wrote...

 They should have made another KOTOR-style game instead of a WOW clone in the world of George Lucas.

You do understand that BioWre has no say what so ever over what type of SW game they make? Lucas Arts offers them a deal to make a game. They can take it or not. Clearly Lucas Arts was not interested in a KoTor 3 for whatever reason, so I am more then happy to see this in BioWares and Mythics hands.

Then again when has Bioware ever been close to the style Bethesda games?

[Rockworm503]

TAJ4Life wrote...

Looking back on Bioware games in the past like SWKOTOR 1 and Jade Empire they were 2 great rpgs that I heavily enjoyed. Then for this gen they released ME1 another great RPG but what happened?

Instead of making another KOTOR single player RPG they bring out an MMO that is already doomed to fail having played it at Eurogamer and seen it in action its no fun at all. Then with ME2 playing too much like a shooter then ME3 looking no better than ME2 and having multiplayer that tells me right there that the single player is going to be very short and nowhere as great as the first game.

I stopped reading here.  Basically someone complaining about the direction a company is going.  Hate to break this to you kiddo but gaming is a business and multiplayer sells.

I don't like the direction Capcom has been going and so I just took my spendin money elsewhere.

[Rockworm503]

TAJ4Life wrote...

Blitzkrieg0811 wrote...

ohai, guise! What's goin' on in this thr-... oh, look. Another jaded complaint about Bioware's "slipping" that doesn't belong on the forums.

I suggest you rant somewhere else and stop spamming.

Having constructive is critism? So I am wrong to say that developers aren't pushing the envelope whereas Bethesda are? Then you are more the fool for going against me.

At the end of the day is it wrong to see one developer able to give us something amazing and make it known that another developer is slipping and not giving us something better? So if you are content on continuing to pay your money for poor games then again more the fool you are.

Yay another idiot who thinks he's the authority on whats good.
other than DA2 show me proof their slipping... Oh you can't because thats a subjective term that you can't prove.  I for one loved ME2 and very much excited for 3 adding some multiplayer in it isn't going to hurt my singleplayer enjoyment.

[Lord_Valandil]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Leveling up isn't the point. The point of leveling up is to learn you class and reach the endgame. What you do at the endgame is up to the player. Some raid, some PVP, some do a little of both.

TOR has added a new point to leveling: Caring about the story, of which there are many. This is, of course, optional.

Hm. I get it, but I didn't want to mean that leveling up is the point of the game...I mean, in WoW and Ragnarok and every other MMO leveling up is a key to obtain more things or open quests, etc.
I don't think it's going to be a bad game, but I'm not really interested. If someone likes it, then more power to him/her, and let's hope TOR can make a stand against WOW. Which is kind of unlikely, Blizzard made a pact with the devil after all...I mean, Activision.

[Lord_Valandil]

addiction21 wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

TOR is pretty meh for me.
I've never been into MMOs, and I don't quite understand the appeal of killing things and collecting stuff for weeks just to level up.

A blatent untruth. Unless your playing something like Silkroad but then given your aversion to MMO's I doubt you have delved to deeply into the grindf fest of asian MMO's and they are far from the normal MMO.

Lord_Valandil wrote...

 They should have made another KOTOR-style game instead of a WOW clone in the world of George Lucas.

You do understand that BioWre has no say what so ever over what type of SW game they make? Lucas Arts offers them a deal to make a game. They can take it or not. Clearly Lucas Arts was not interested in a KoTor 3 for whatever reason, so I am more then happy to see this in BioWares and Mythics hands.

Then again when has Bioware ever been close to the style Bethesda games?

All right, my bad. I won't argue with that.
But I have to say that I didn't mean to be the voice of reason here or something like that...I was just like "oh, an MMO, whatever, level up and kill 10 critters".

[Apollo Starflare]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Many BioWarians around here are eagerly awaiting Skyrim as well, partly because the Elder Scrolls are so different from the games we make here. Seeing how other developers do things helps us to make games better, gives us new ideas on what may or may not work within the context of a BioWare game, and allows us to stay abreast of new technologies and development philosophies. Other companies making successful games is not a "fail" for BioWare; it is a "win" for the industry and for all gamers.

Quoting for awesome.

[Rockworm503]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

TOR is pretty meh for me.
I've never been into MMOs, and I don't quite understand the appeal of killing things and collecting stuff for weeks just to level up.

A blatent untruth. Unless your playing something like Silkroad but then given your aversion to MMO's I doubt you have delved to deeply into the grindf fest of asian MMO's and they are far from the normal MMO.

Lord_Valandil wrote...

 They should have made another KOTOR-style game instead of a WOW clone in the world of George Lucas.

You do understand that BioWre has no say what so ever over what type of SW game they make? Lucas Arts offers them a deal to make a game. They can take it or not. Clearly Lucas Arts was not interested in a KoTor 3 for whatever reason, so I am more then happy to see this in BioWares and Mythics hands.

Then again when has Bioware ever been close to the style Bethesda games?

All right, my bad. I won't argue with that.
But I have to say that I didn't mean to be the voice of reason here or something like that...I was just like "oh, an MMO, whatever, level up and kill 10 critters".

i'm in agreement here.  I'm actually tired of Starwars and have no interest in this.  its the only Bioware game in recent years that i haven't been excited for.

[Cutlass Jack]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

TOR is pretty meh for me.
I've never been into MMOs, and I don't quite understand the appeal of killing things and collecting stuff for weeks just to level up. Then again...every game is repetitive, that's for sure, but MMOs aren't my cup of tea. They should have made another KOTOR-style game instead of a WOW clone in the world of George Lucas.

Except they didn't. Its a Bioware style game made into an MMORPG. Last I looked, WoW didn't have 40 possible fully voiced customizable companions complete with all the relationship building we've come to expect from their games. Including friendships, romances and even love triangles. And I certainly couldn't get those companions to do my crafting for me while I did the fun stuff.


I was meh about it myself awhile back, but the more I see, the more excited I get. Like the Companion Trailer they just put out.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 26 octobre 2011 - 11:37 .

[Xewaka]

Stanley Woo wrote...
I'm sorry you're not enjoying what you've seen of our current products, TAJ4Life, but I disagree that just because one developer makes games a certain way that all developers should make games that way. It's the differences in design philosophies, processes, and attitudes that give us the wide variety of games we enjoy today.

Do you believe the differences in design philosophies should be kept within franchises of a same company? At the beggining (ME vs DA:O), it felt as if you were going for two different styles of games, for both combat and non-combat situations. Come ME 2 and DA 2, the non-combat situations are suddenly much more closer between both games (read - outside of combat, they play much more similar, too similar for certain tastes). Would you agree that variation should also be desirable not just between, but within as well, rather than have the material within get closer with each iteration?
And yes, I now ME 2 combat is TPS and DA 2 combat is pause and play party based tactics. But the other half of the game (and arguably, the part Bioware excels at and got famous because of) is eeringly similar, down to the useless paraphrase system.

[addiction21]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

All right, my bad. I won't argue with that.
But I have to say that I didn't mean to be the voice of reason here or something like that...I was just like "oh, an MMO, whatever, level up and kill 10 critters".

Voice of reason on the internet? You're a crazy man!!!

[Lord_Valandil]

addiction21 wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

All right, my bad. I won't argue with that.
But I have to say that I didn't mean to be the voice of reason here or something like that...I was just like "oh, an MMO, whatever, level up and kill 10 critters".

Voice of reason on the internet? You're a crazy man!!!

I know, such thing cannot exist on the internet
I'll admit that I laughed hard.

[Stanley Woo]

Xewaka wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
I'm sorry you're not enjoying what you've seen of our current products, TAJ4Life, but I disagree that just because one developer makes games a certain way that all developers should make games that way. It's the differences in design philosophies, processes, and attitudes that give us the wide variety of games we enjoy today.

Do you believe the differences in design philosophies should be kept within franchises of a same company? At the beggining (ME vs DA:O), it felt as if you were going for two different styles of games, for both combat and non-combat situations. Come ME 2 and DA 2, the non-combat situations are suddenly much more closer between both games (read - outside of combat, they play much more similar, too similar for certain tastes). Would you agree that variation should also be desirable not just between, but within as well, rather than have the material within get closer with each iteration?
And yes, I now ME 2 combat is TPS and DA 2 combat is pause and play party based tactics. But the other half of the game (and arguably, the part Bioware excels at and got famous because of) is eeringly similar, down to the useless paraphrase system.

Really, the best answer I can give is "it depends." there is no single way of doing things, and no singular way to ensure that a game is successful. At BioWare, while we have the same underlying phiosophies on what kind of game makes for a "BioWare game," how we go about designing these games can be very different. the Mass Effect team and the Dragon Age team approach BioWare games from different perspectives but our goals--engaging stories, dynamic characters, exciting combat--may be very similar.

Just because two of our projects happen to be more similar this time around does not necessarily mean we are homogenizing the visions each team has, nor is it an indication that future games will be as similar.

[addiction21]

jreezy wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Six to nine hours, eh? Do tell - which recent BioWare RPG was six to nine hours in length? Because I haven't finished any game from ME1 until now that quickly. Also, like Morroian, I've heard from people in the TOR beta who have been enjoying the game. *shrug*

It's actually possible finishing ME1 in 9 hours. I know, I've done it.

Was that your goal? Did you do that on your first playthur? Did you use guides? What was the diffculty on?

Theres playing a game and then rushing thru a game.

[Rockworm503]

addiction21 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Six to nine hours, eh? Do tell - which recent BioWare RPG was six to nine hours in length? Because I haven't finished any game from ME1 until now that quickly. Also, like Morroian, I've heard from people in the TOR beta who have been enjoying the game. *shrug*

It's actually possible finishing ME1 in 9 hours. I know, I've done it.

Was that your goal? Did you do that on your first playthur? Did you use guides? What was the diffculty on?

Theres playing a game and then rushing thru a game.

For some people the fun is in seeing how fast you can beat it.  For most games i don't get it myself but I remember being obsessed with beating that guy who beat Mario 3 in 11 minutes.

[Homebound]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm sorry you're not enjoying what you've seen of our current products, TAJ4Life, but I disagree that just because one developer makes games a certain way that all developers should make games that way. It's the differences in design philosophies, processes, and attitudes that give us the wide variety of games we enjoy today.

[Il Divo]

TAJ4Life wrote...

Instead of making another KOTOR single player RPG they bring out an MMO that is already doomed to fail having played it at Eurogamer and seen it in action its no fun at all. Then with ME2 playing too much like a shooter then ME3 looking no better than ME2 and having multiplayer that tells me right there that the single player is going to be very short and nowhere as great as the first game.

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, and Neverwinter Nights both featured multiplayer, and I don't think either game had a problem length-wise.

So what has gone wrong? No KOTOR 3, no Jade Empire 2 no huge open rpgs on the level of what Bethesda makes like Fallout 3 and Oblivion.

What good huge open RPGs have Bioware made? The only two that come to mind are Baldur's Gate 1 and Mass Effect 1, and I'd argue the exploration elements there were more than lackluster, compared to sandboxes or Bethesda games. I'd go so far as to say ME's strength was in the central narrative.

Instead we get very short games that last 6-9 hours and people getting mad by arguing 'Well put it on harder difficulty!' Sorry that is not an answer games have gotten far shorter and detail in visuals are usually allover the place.

Honestly, you argue that Bioware games are getting shorter, but I personally found Jade Empire shorter than both Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par Il Divo, 27 octobre 2011 - 12:26 .

[upsettingshorts]

bmwcrazy wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

As a TOR beta tester I am only allowed to say that there is a beta program and I am in it.

Also I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition.

Draw whatever conclusions you will from those two facts.

You don't even get the final product for free?

Why would I?

[addiction21]

jreezy wrote...

I'd lean more towards "rushing through". It was probably my 7th playthrough of the game. I may be off since I've lost track of how many times I've played it. For that particular playthrough it was my goal to finish ASAP. No guides and it was on Casual.

ANd thats sort of my point. You were getting thru it not playing it. I dont have a problem with someone saying "I got thru it this fast"
Its when they make that statement and connect it to how poor a game is. What do you sacrifice to be able to do that? Not saying thats what you were doing but we see that a lot around here.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

bmwcrazy wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

As a TOR beta tester I am only allowed to say that there is a beta program and I am in it.

Also I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition.

Draw whatever conclusions you will from those two facts.

You don't even get the final product for free?

Why would I?

Simple note I hate most beta testers. They think its a free preview and damned they should get the game for free. It is not for you to play for 10 hours and then say you dont like it. It is for you to TEST IT!! Give feed back.

I remember Battlefield two. I was part of the 10% that got our tester bonuses. We got them because we gave feed back. We looked for problems, bugsm power problems and REPORTED THEM.

Best thing ever was that week before its release the outrage on those BT forums and how the mods/devs came down heavy. Named names of those pitching a fit and how they never reported anything. Not even the automatic emails.

That is one of the problems I have felt for the people making MMO's. They put out these beta testers but the majority just want to play the game. Be cool because they are a tester. They dont do the job and then **** and moan about problems they had during the testing after its release.

/rant off

[Volus Warlord]

Eh, Bioware should have at least a few more good games in 'em. But nothing lasts forever.