121 réponses à ce sujet

[lv12medic]

Well, not to get into gory details, but the problem with Oblivion's main quest at the get go was that you had to go across half the map to continue the main quest once you are out of the prologue sewer. They should have sent you to the main city first since you are right there.

[Heather Cline]

Never found that. Returned my copy of Oblivion like 3 days after I got it. Couldn't get into it, got completely lost so returned it for a game I enjoyed.

[Mr.House]

Well to be fair, you don't play Oblivion for it's main story, you play it for it's world and side stories, like the Dark Brotherhood, and the moding community really saved that game.

The main story was trash.

Modifié par Mr.House, 27 octobre 2011 - 05:16 .

[bussinrounds]

I could deal with it not being a story driven game with good dialog/characters and all that stuff. It's more about the freedom and exploration in those games. The part that really kills it it for me is the combat. If you gonna make an action rpg, having some good action would be nice.

And Bioware dialog doesn't have good choices and consequences like Black Isle/Obsidian. Either the consequence is immediate (where it only affects the next sentence from the NPC) or there isn't one at all (think of the dialog choices that all give out the same EXACT answer)

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

The thing about Elder Scrolls games is that you don't necessarily "beat" them, you "explore" them.

The main quest might be the main quest, but you can continue playing once it's done or ignore it completely. The "stories" of Elder Scrolls games are that of the world, the people, the places. It dumps you into a place with dozens if not hundreds of plot threads to explore and interact with.

The point is to create a character, then go out and roleplay it in this huge ass gameworld with a ton of stuff to do. That, or virtual LARPing depending on how well the character system is implemented.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 27 octobre 2011 - 05:22 .

[Rockworm503]

Heather Cline wrote...

i tried to play oblivion but i couldn't get past the first part of the game after the opening part. i didn't even know where to go in the game. in Dragon Age, in Mass Effect, in Jade Empire, in KoTOR you have some idea of where to go, what to do, the story helps you. In Oblivion the first Elder Scrolls game I played I never could figure it out. Thus I've written off the game series itself because if I can't figure out where to go and what to do, I can't beat the game.

In my countless hours with Oblivion I didn't even come close to anywhere near finishing it.  I explored and made my own story.  Though I did playthrough everything Shivering Isles had that Sheogorath is the best character ever.

[Rockworm503]

Heather Cline wrote...

Well you see for me take Mass Effect 1. A pretty open world rpg with third person shooter elements. After the prologue on Eden Prime and proving Saren was a traitor you are given some direction on where to go. However you are free to explore the entire galaxy via the galaxy map. In Oblivion I didn't even have that going for me. So I couldn't get into it. I like that rpg's can throw you into a world but unless there is like a marker in the game saying "this is your next target" I can't figure out how to play or beat it. So to me the Elder Scrolls series is not for me.

I fail to see the problem here.  The game gives you a marker on your current quest and even has fast travel if exploring sucks for you.  Oblivion should've been perfect.

[Heather Cline]

rockworm i never found the marker on the map nor the ability to fast travel. *shrugs* like i said i returned it 3 days later.

[Ulathar]

TAJ4Life wrote...

Looking back on Bioware games in the past like SWKOTOR 1 and Jade Empire they were 2 great rpgs that I heavily enjoyed. Then for this gen they released ME1 another great RPG but what happened?

No idea what you're talking about. Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 were both great games, imo.

TAJ4Life wrote...

Instead of making another KOTOR single player RPG they bring out an MMO that is already doomed to fail having played it at Eurogamer and seen it in action its no fun at all. Then with ME2 playing too much like a shooter then ME3 looking no better than ME2 and having multiplayer that tells me right there that the single player is going to be very short and nowhere as great as the first game.

Having played SW:TOR at several conventions and in the BW Austin studio, I have to disagree with you on it being already doomed to fail and no fun at all.
I agree with you that ME2 played too much like a shooter (and for me it was quite the disappointment story-wise), but ME3s gameplay felt a lot more polished and smooth in the demo level that was available at the conventions. Obviously, it was combat-heavy to not spoil too much of the story, so it remains to be seen if they can score there for me.

TAJ4Life wrote...

So what has gone wrong? No KOTOR 3, no Jade Empire 2 no huge open rpgs on the level of what Bethesda makes like Fallout 3 and Oblivion.

Apart from (imo) Oblivion being rather overrated, Risen 2 comes to mind here for me (this isn't developed by BW of course). If you're talking BW games.....SW:TOR is pretty huge, I'd say. It's true, though, not many open RPGs are released these days.

TAJ4Life wrote...

Where are all the decent RPG's these days? I used to think highly of Bioware as much as Bethesda but we see Skyrim on the horizon and the only decent developer left that gives us value for money with long single player games that are very appealing and last.

Again, I'd like to mention Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II. There is also Obsidian, with Alpha Protocol, FO: New Vegas and the still very entertaining Neverwinter Nights 2. And oh yeah...CD Project with The Witcher games.

TAJ4Life wrote...

Instead we get very short games that last 6-9 hours and people getting mad by arguing 'Well put it on harder difficulty!' Sorry that is not an answer games have gotten far shorter and detail in visuals are usually allover the place.

If Bethesda can make huge games with superb visuals what is stopping other developers? Rage was extremely short and that was 21.5gb in size! Nowhere the size of Fallout 3 or Oblivion and has texture streaming.

I've never played Rage, but it's a shooter. To compare that with games like FO3 or Oblivion in terms of playtime won't work. Also, playstyle is a great factor here. Skyrim can be beaten in under 2 and a half hours for example.

Modifié par Systemlord Baal, 27 octobre 2011 - 05:42 .

[Eski.Moe]

lv12medic wrote...

Well, not to get into gory details, but the problem with Oblivion's main quest at the get go was that you had to go across half the map to continue the main quest once you are out of the prologue sewer. They should have sent you to the main city first since you are right there.

You could just fast travel to Chorrol anyway so...

[Bryy_Miller]

Mr.House wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Six to nine hours, eh? Do tell - which recent BioWare RPG was six to nine hours in length? Because I haven't finished any game from ME1 until now that quickly. Also, like Morroian, I've heard from people in the TOR beta who have been enjoying the game. *shrug*

It's actually possible finishing ME1 in 9 hours. I know, I've done it.

Sure, I would assume that's possible in a speed run, but I think the guy is implying that a "standard" run is somehow super-duper short.

Skyrim can be beaten in 2 hours and 16 minutes.

I would assume that this is the best way to learn how many hours of content your game has. 

Have someone do everything, then have someone rush it. Then find the centerpoint.

[bussinrounds]

jreezy wrote...

I'm always confused when people bring up that Mass Effect 2 "plays too much like a shooter" as a point of criticism as if the first one was vastly different.

  I think they're talking about the whole series in general, not just 2.

  On another note www.youtube.com/watch  7:44 Look at Gaider's expression when Laidlaw mentions button=awesome

Modifié par bussinrounds, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:15 .

[Pious_Augustus]

The Old Republic feels like a single player RPG but then again it's online and there is so much you can do so its really hard to say I played something like The Old Republic before. I recommend trying it you will surely love it.

[Spatia]

As most others have said, Bioware should stick to what Bioware do best and not try to make Elder Scrolls clones. I don't think large open worlds are as important as people make out either. I used to play WoW for a long time so the novelty of exploring a large world is now lost on me.

As long as Bioware keep innovating the combat systems while offering interesting exciting storylines and interesting characters and dialogue then I'm happy. I hope they learn from the criticism of DA2 though (and to a lesser extent certain criticisms of ME2, although overall I love the game).

[lobi]

Firstly let me establish my credentials.
I love E-RPG I have according to steam 434.1 hours logged in New Vegas alone. Thats no typo, four hundred and 34 hours.  I have even more time invested in Fallout 3. mods mods mods, I have lost count how many times I have played origins and the mass effect series. all these games have been reinstalled at least once.
I own Baldars Gate series, NWN series. I Have Warhammer figures in my bedroom and roll polyhedral dice to decide what drink to get in a nightclub.

I get every DLC for every E-RPG, always.
I look in every chest, read every codex entry, computer screen, scrap of paper. I eavesdrop on every NPC conversation, even follow them for a while in case something interesting happens or to find out where they live. Old Oblivion habits die hard. 

I love that IP's have their own strengths and foibles it keeps it interesting for someone like me that plays games heaps. I will play a game I have been waiting for 24hrs the first day I get it and, return time and again and modding till it's re****ulous. I like variation, and getting my monies worth.

The only thing I think Bioware has dropped the ball on is no Hi-res for DLC weps and Armours. (yay nexus).
I scream about design decisions and plot turns but that is subjective stuff and not really a fail on Biowares part.
 
I realise that I am not the only customer that Bioware has but, I feel am the most important when the game is not the game I want. Thats not Biowares fault it's mine. All I can do is give feedback and voice my opinion. Perhaps the next title will be more to my taste.

Modifié par lobi, 27 octobre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Addai]

Heather Cline wrote...

Never found that. Returned my copy of Oblivion like 3 days after I got it. Couldn't get into it, got completely lost so returned it for a game I enjoyed.

Getting lost is the best way to play a Bethesda game.

[ReallyRue]

Addai67 wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

Never found that. Returned my copy of Oblivion like 3 days after I got it. Couldn't get into it, got completely lost so returned it for a game I enjoyed.

Getting lost is the best way to play a Bethesda game.

Definitely. So many times I'd just wander into the wilderness to see what was there.

[Chromie]

Pious_Augustus wrote...

The Old Republic feels like a single player RPG but then again it's online and there is so much you can do so its really hard to say I played something like The Old Republic before. I recommend trying it you will surely love it.

I do not recommend that because it's an MMOrpg if it doesn't fufill on the online/multiplayer component then I will dissapointed. Yes the single player stuff are great but it's an MMO with a subscription and unless it goes B2P like Guild Wars 2 I don't suggest paying $15 a month just for some good single player fun.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

I'm done with bioware after ME3 if there will be no Star Wars RPG or Jade Empire 2.

I suppose the same holds true for me as well, although I'm also open to the concept of the ME-team (or possibly Montreal) creating a new game and/or series.

Mass Effect doesn't seem to live up to the premise of our choices changing/affecting the story/galaxy over the course of the trilogy, as it looks like said choices aren't as planned in advance as most of us assumed them to be. Still, I plan to finish the series because I wish to see it concluded, and the combat gameplay also happens to be rather enjoyable. I don't doubt the series will be milked to death after ME3, though.

As for Dragon Age, at first I wasn't too happy with Awakening not bothering to acknowledge Origins' US ending, but that was ultimately a small price to pay, as the rest of the expansequel was quite up to standard. Then the real sequel comes along and... I honestly don't know what happened there. If I was to believe marketing, Dragon Age 2 wouldn't be all that different, aside from the different art style, different combat system, decade-long narrative, dialogue wheel and voice protagonist. Sure, there already was hell to be paid on here for those changes (I was one of the naive apologists back then), but I saw no reason to suspect that the team responsible for Origins would in the span of a year forget what made their previous game so great. I thought wrong: gone was the exploration/adventuring aspect of the game, even the illusion of choice was no more.

What irks me so much about DA2 is that I cannot for the life of me comprehend the train of thought behind it: You create a new series and the first entry in it is both critically and commercially acclaimed, it's one of the rare successful games in its niche (and thus you control the majority of that market), and then, instead of repeating what you did so well last time, you overhaul everything  It just doesn't make any sense.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 28 octobre 2011 - 02:04 .

[sympathyforsaren]

I've also been disappointed with what I've been seeing from BioWare recently. Mass Effect attracted me because it was different than other sci-fi games....it wasn't about murdering as many aliens as possible. Mass Effect 3 looks like a pure third person shooter. When multiplayer was announced I cancelled my preorder, and remain very skeptical as to what the final product will be. I never could imagine this because I love Mass Effect to pieces, but I am not at all excited and have scratched my head at many things I've seen. The multiplayer just angered me....you CANNOT be completely focused on making a singleplayer (or used to be) singleplayer game when you have multiplayer in there. Mass Effect 3 is one package...who's integrating the singleplayer and multiplayer together into one package? My guess is Casey Hudson and crew. And its wasting their time. But all I see is shooting, shooting, railgun, shooting, guitar music, new cheesy energy sword. Very disappointing. A genuine sense of disappointment.

I got this from Dragon Age II as well. Such a drastic decline in quality, gameplay and writing from the masterpiece of Dragon Age: Origins.

I sense BioWare is heading in a direction directly contradictory to quality and focus on strong singleplayer rpgs.

Bethesda Game Studios, on the other hand, is going in a different direction, imo. Look at Skyrim, and look at DAII. What game has more passion behind it? What game has more love and attention? What game is more innovative?

I love both open and non-open rpgs, so that isn't the issue. The issue is who is the intended audience. Skyrim is an rpg meant for rpg players. People who don't play rpgs would be so lost in that game it'd be sad. BioWare is developing third person shooters and action games with light rpg elements to gain the appeal of other genres, and the rpg fan is suffering for it.

Skyrim doesn't have multiplayer. It's not needed. It's a waste of Todd Howard's and everyone at Bethesda Game Studios' time. Their focus is to provide the greatest singleplayer experience possible. Legitimately.

Skyrim's sales numbers are soon to be known. How much of a profit will it make?

BioWare hasn't lost their touch as much as they have lost focus on making deep, rich rpgs.

I recommend to the OP and others checking out a genuinely deep fantasy rpg called Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. That game looks like it has received full passion as well, with great writing, deep lore, rich and genuine rpg mechanics and....real action combat.

Modifié par sympathyforsaren, 28 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .

[Rockworm503]

sympathyforsaren wrote...

I've also been disappointed with what I've been seeing from BioWare recently. Mass Effect attracted me because it was different than other sci-fi games....it wasn't about murdering as many aliens as possible. Mass Effect 3 looks like a pure third person shooter. When multiplayer was announced I cancelled my preorder, and remain very skeptical as to what the final product will be. I never could imagine this because I love Mass Effect to pieces, but I am not at all excited and have scratched my head at many things I've seen. The multiplayer just angered me....you CANNOT be completely focused on making a singleplayer (or used to be) singleplayer game when you have multiplayer in there. Mass Effect 3 is one package...who's integrating the singleplayer and multiplayer together into one package? My guess is Casey Hudson and crew. And its wasting their time. But all I see is shooting, shooting, railgun, shooting, guitar music, new cheesy energy sword. Very disappointing. A genuine sense of disappointment.

Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood and the upcoming Revelations want a word with you.

I will never understand this mentality that having multiplayer automatically = bad singelplayer

[sympathyforsaren]

Rockworm503 wrote...

sympathyforsaren wrote...

I've also been disappointed with what I've been seeing from BioWare recently. Mass Effect attracted me because it was different than other sci-fi games....it wasn't about murdering as many aliens as possible. Mass Effect 3 looks like a pure third person shooter. When multiplayer was announced I cancelled my preorder, and remain very skeptical as to what the final product will be. I never could imagine this because I love Mass Effect to pieces, but I am not at all excited and have scratched my head at many things I've seen. The multiplayer just angered me....you CANNOT be completely focused on making a singleplayer (or used to be) singleplayer game when you have multiplayer in there. Mass Effect 3 is one package...who's integrating the singleplayer and multiplayer together into one package? My guess is Casey Hudson and crew. And its wasting their time. But all I see is shooting, shooting, railgun, shooting, guitar music, new cheesy energy sword. Very disappointing. A genuine sense of disappointment.

Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood and the upcoming Revelations want a word with you.

I will never understand this mentality that having multiplayer automatically = bad singelplayer

And, as I asserted, you cannot be solely focused on singleplayer with multiplayer. How much bigger could Rome have been?

However, I have more of a problem with the other factors I expressed that weren't multiplayer.