173 réponses à ce sujet

[Izhalezan]

Mirandas "unfinished business" is most likely the betrayal... Garrus is Shepards Robin, can't be him. And if anyones gonna betray you it's more likely that it'll be anyone whos loyalty missions you didn't do but they survived the SM.

[SnowHeart1]

I would love it if someone betrayed Shepard in ME3, and when you factor indoctrination into the mix, a character's "loyalty" really doesn't matter. The most loyal of Shepard's followers could be corrupted that way, and with there being time lapses between ME, ME2 and ME3, there's plenty of time for a squaddie to find another "Object Rho" and succumb to the Reaper's sweet whispers.

Oh, and to Garrus's question: I'd kill them (even though I didn't let Garrus kill Sidonus. Do as I say, not as I do and all that).

[JamieCOTC]

I wouldn't be surprised if Cerberus had some sort of contingency plan to force EDI through her programming to turn on Shepard and the crew. Indoctrination would also be a forced betrayal, be it Garrus, Joker, or anyone of Shep's crew. Sidonus was coerced into betraying Garrus, but it was still ultimately his choice. Programming and indoctrination removes choice from the equation. While EDI could probably be shut down or even fixed, unless there is some magic bullet for indoctrination, the person would have to be killed. I'm not sure I would call that a cop out as it could be dramatic in its own right. An indoctrinated person could do things they were holding back. I could only imagine what an indoctrinated Garrus might have to say to a paragon Shepard, or an exiled Tali, or a dumped LI. Still, I would also love it if someone betrayed Shepard. I'd love to see how it would affect Shepard.  That's why I would rather it be a more grey area situation.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 27 octobre 2011 - 04:07 .

[Eire Icon]

For me the key question is "If Garrus felt strongly enough that Shepard was making an erroror or taking a course of actions against his beliefs, would he turn against him and oppose him violently?

For me the answer is yes, whether these conditions are met is another thing, but I think the possibility is there

The second question is "Would your Shepard drill him through the eyes if he had too?"

[DiebytheSword]

EDI or Morinth most likely to betray you IMO. EDI for being sorta shackled by protocol, might have orders from TIM at some point. Morinth is a serial killer and is drawn to your fire, I could see her trying, again, to seduce you. Or killing a squadmate.

As for anyone else, there's always indoctrination . . .

[Skullheart]

If there's a traitor in the squad my money is in Liara, the VS, or even Joker. The betrayal of a squadmember is a big thing, so I don't think that any ME2 squadmate can take that role (because any of them can die in the SM).

[stonbw1]

This thread is great. There's something very fun about speculating and debating this stuff. It's like sports commentators spending 2 weeks discussing the Super Bowl which is only three hours long! I'll miss this stuff once ME3 comes out.

Oh yeah, and I'd really like this type of story twist assuming it meant something to me (i.e. the squadmate was one of the more beloved characters).

[GMagnum]

garrus is a bro he wouldnt ever do that bro

EVER

[aequitaz]

Shepard will be betrayed by his whole crew as soon as they find out he has been indoctrinated.

[Destroy Raiden_]

BW will more then likely will get someone to betray you I mean Miranda could do it because she works for Cerberus, they have her sister or mislead her into thinking so, you didn't stop her from killing her friend, Jack could do it, hell even Tali if you keep screwing up her life you get her exiled, shame her father, and then take them to war even Tali would become disillusioned and perhapse go insane for revenge. But in typical BW fashion they'll also say so and so betrayed you now go kill them.

I would rather question them and not necessarily have to go the point A - B path in order to kill them. I liked how in ME Saren had chances para shep tried hard to give him chances I'd like for instance if Garrus or Tali betrayed me I'd be shocked I'd want to know why especially if my shep is para or paragande I'd like to know why they did this, can they reconsider what they're trying to do to me, can't I change their minds or course of actions, then I'd like to try a novel idea in most betray scenarios get away from them at least once let shep toss a blinding grenade and run the other way not actively going for the throat of his/her once time friend.

Then when said exfriend comes back again shep would have his/her back to the wall and can't get out of it its either kill them or surrender and come under their mercy. Frankly I'd like to surrender and not get a game over but go through whatever pain and suffering this ride would take and use that to decide will I kill them next time or order one of my men to kill them?

On the flip side to this for a stranger I think shep in Arrival gave Kensen too many breaks when she was doing the core melt down he kept hesitating to shoot her at least twice but I thought the last one where you could shoot her when she held up the grenade was perfect it even cut her off in a perfect way she didn't keep on rambling. Shep has no reason to let strangers get multiple chances unless like Saren he thought they deserved to get a long rope.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 27 octobre 2011 - 06:46 .

[Gunderic]

Arcian wrote...

MartinDN wrote...

----There are some people that think drama in ME3 is only achievable by killing off a squadmate or two, ----

This a trillion times.

How else would drama be achieved? If not for characters people are emotionally invested in -- and Mass Effect to some people is all about the characters. So is drama.

You could have people manage a 'perfect' ending, although I'm not sure if that would be as exciting. The other option might be some post-apocalyptic scenario.

[WizenSlinky0]

Gunderic wrote...

Arcian wrote...

MartinDN wrote...

----There are some people that think drama in ME3 is only achievable by killing off a squadmate or two, ----

This a trillion times.

How else would drama be achieved? If not for characters people are emotionally invested in -- and Mass Effect to some people is all about the characters. So is drama.

You could have people manage a 'perfect' ending, although I'm not sure if that would be as exciting. The other option might be some post-apocalyptic scenario.

In your life, is the only way for drama to happen is some scandelous death in your circle?

No, we deal with drama of varying degrees every day. And those kinds of things can be reflected in the characters through situations that test them emotionally, and not just physically.

Character death that isn't esential to moving the story is basically just drama in a can. The easy way out. Where as what we need is some homemade drama. Delicious, delicious, homemade drama.

[seirhart]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

BW will more then likely will get someone to betray you I mean Miranda could do it because she works for Cerberus, they have her sister or mislead her into thinking so, you didn't stop her from killing her friend, Jack could do it, hell even Tali if you keep screwing up her life you get her exiled, shame her father, and then take them to war even Tali would become disillusioned and perhapse go insane for revenge. But in typical BW fashion they'll also say so and so betrayed you now go kill them.

I would rather question them and not necessarily have to go the point A - B path in order to kill them. I liked how in ME Saren had chances para shep tried hard to give him chances I'd like for instance if Garrus or Tali betrayed me I'd be shocked I'd want to know why especially if my shep is para or paragande I'd like to know why they did this, can they reconsider what they're trying to do to me, can't I change their minds or course of actions, then I'd like to try a novel idea in most betray scenarios get away from them at least once let shep toss a blinding grenade and run the other way not actively going for the throat of his/her once time friend.

Then when said exfriend comes back again shep would have his/her back to the wall and can't get out of it its either kill them or surrender and come under their mercy. Frankly I'd like to surrender and not get a game over but go through whatever pain and suffering this ride would take and use that to decide will I kill them next time or order one of my men to kill them?

On the flip side to this for a stranger I think shep in Arrival gave Kensen too many breaks when she was doing the core melt down he kept hesitating to shoot her at least twice but I thought the last one where you could shoot her when she held up the grenade was perfect it even cut her off in a perfect way she didn't keep on rambling. Shep has no reason to let strangers get multiple chances unless like Saren he thought they deserved to get a long rope.

Miranda won't betray shepard especially when she quits cereberus, then of course cereberus could threaten miranda's sister but I don't think that would happen but it could. If it did happen miranda could just somehow find out that shepard is back on the scene and figure out where shepard is and ask for shepards help and they go on a mission to save her sister.

[eye basher]

Garrus betray HA! he's a flunkie he follows shepards word to the letter shepard says jump he says how high.

[Gruntyfy]

What if every unloyal member has a agenda to betray you?

[seirhart]

Izhalezan wrote...

Mirandas "unfinished business" is most likely the betrayal... Garrus is Shepards Robin, can't be him. And if anyones gonna betray you it's more likely that it'll be anyone whos loyalty missions you didn't do but they survived the SM.

you sure you're not talking about tali? in the mass effect wiki it says that tali has unfinished business with shepard and doesn't say anything about miranda having unfinished business.

I do agree that with the exception of indoctrination and sacrificing his homeworld that garrus will never betray shepard. I remember a conversation with garrus while going after sidonis where garrus tells shepard that shepard taught garrus to be a killer or something close along those lines.

[naledgeborn]

I'd kill him.

[capn233]

Garrus is Shepard's main bro. If he betrays him the war is lost.

[Travie]

Garrus is going to eat her, and then hes going to eat me!



OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!

[xSTONEYx187x]

Garrus: "I did not kill him, it's not true, it's bulls.hit, I did not kill him, I did naaaht, oh hai, Wrex"

[JamieCOTC]

seirhart wrote...

Izhalezan wrote...

Mirandas "unfinished business" is most likely the betrayal... Garrus is Shepards Robin, can't be him. And if anyones gonna betray you it's more likely that it'll be anyone whos loyalty missions you didn't do but they survived the SM.

you sure you're not talking about tali? in the mass effect wiki it says that tali has unfinished business with shepard and doesn't say anything about miranda having unfinished business.

I do agree that with the exception of indoctrination and sacrificing his homeworld that garrus will never betray shepard. I remember a conversation with garrus while going after sidonis where garrus tells shepard that shepard taught garrus to be a killer or something close along those lines.

From the EA Q&A at Gamescon it was stated that "Miranda will be back and has unfinished business with Shepard."  Mind you, all squadmates could have unfished business w/ Shepard if they are LIs. 

[LOLandStuff]

Everyone wants something. What a burden it is to be Commander Shepard.

[DiebytheSword]

All of my Sheps would be brutal about a turncoat under any situation other than indoctrination or loved ones held captive.

[ADLegend21]

(my)Shepard would knee cap them with their pistol and ask them why they're doing it, if it's something tha can be fixed (IE the idea that Cerberus would use Miranda's sister against her to betray Shepard if she quit then we'd just save Oriana again) they'd be left alive if they just wer a mole or something like Wilson then they die.

[Destroy Raiden_]

seirhart wrote...

Destroy Raiden wrote...

BW will more then likely will get someone to betray you I mean Miranda could do it because she works for Cerberus, they have her sister or mislead her into thinking so, you didn't stop her from killing her friend, Jack could do it, hell even Tali if you keep screwing up her life you get her exiled, shame her father, and then take them to war even Tali would become disillusioned and perhapse go insane for revenge. But in typical BW fashion they'll also say so and so betrayed you now go kill them.

I would rather question them and not necessarily have to go the point A - B path in order to kill them. I liked how in ME Saren had chances para shep tried hard to give him chances I'd like for instance if Garrus or Tali betrayed me I'd be shocked I'd want to know why especially if my shep is para or paragande I'd like to know why they did this, can they reconsider what they're trying to do to me, can't I change their minds or course of actions, then I'd like to try a novel idea in most betray scenarios get away from them at least once let shep toss a blinding grenade and run the other way not actively going for the throat of his/her once time friend.

Then when said exfriend comes back again shep would have his/her back to the wall and can't get out of it its either kill them or surrender and come under their mercy. Frankly I'd like to surrender and not get a game over but go through whatever pain and suffering this ride would take and use that to decide will I kill them next time or order one of my men to kill them?

On the flip side to this for a stranger I think shep in Arrival gave Kensen too many breaks when she was doing the core melt down he kept hesitating to shoot her at least twice but I thought the last one where you could shoot her when she held up the grenade was perfect it even cut her off in a perfect way she didn't keep on rambling. Shep has no reason to let strangers get multiple chances unless like Saren he thought they deserved to get a long rope.

Miranda won't betray shepard especially when she quits cereberus, then of course cereberus could threaten miranda's sister but I don't think that would happen but it could. If it did happen miranda could just somehow find out that shepard is back on the scene and figure out where shepard is and ask for shepards help and they go on a mission to save her sister.

Yes but you see I don't take Miranda quitting Cerberus at face value she shot Wilson whom she'd worked with for 2 years without so much as batting an eye like she actually was waiting for him to open that door. I don't think she quit working for TIM just because shep was nice or evil enough for her.

Like Legion she could always lie to gain his/her trust even more thats what double agents do they make the people who're confiding in them think they are 100% with them then when all the pieces are in place they will do the one thing (or series of things) that places their once employer into the hands of their real bosses. Almost everyone on the ground team can be made in someway to betray shep with the exception of Samara and Thane.