377 réponses à ce sujet

[culletron1]

Pattonesque wrote...

RolandX9 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

*sigh*

Bioware Montreal was founded in 2009 with hole point to assists other Bioware studios project.
In other words, a back up just in case.

Like for example, Bioware Montreal did every ME2 DLC since Overlord and now they're doing ME3 Co-Op.

Yes, those are the resources being wasted.  What's your point?

If they were doing nothing then resources would be wasted.
People in that studio have to be payed.

And doing DLC's already would be BS.

So no, resources are not wasted.

*sigh* You Fail Logic Forever.

A development team does not have limitless resources. Resources for any facet of a game mean resources not applied to another facet. Whether you think MP is a good idea or not, money devoted to hiring its developers is money not devoted to developing levels/characters/mechanics for the single-player. Can there be "force-multiplier" design, such as levels that can be shared between the single-player and multiplayer sections? Sure. But dollars are dollars, and no game budget is infinite. Look, just watch some Extra Credits episodes on game development. You'll get the idea.

As for the previews themselves...this is bad, bad news. It's one thing to be anti-multiplayer (which, full disclosure, I am), but it's another thing to watch the comments roll in and watch ME3's future Metacritic rating take a hit. Reviewers do mark down games for multiplayer that doesn't measure up, even if the SP is top of the class. I've seen reviews state this openly. I imagine most of you have too. This does not bode well. I'd rather no MP at all (especially since I'm a 360 owner who refuses to buy Gold), but if it has to be there, it has to be excellent. I'm actually a little stunned that Bioware didn't see this coming.

More likely scenario:

Mass Effect 3 sans multiplayer gets a budget of X dollars

The decision is made to add multiplayer.

Mass Effect 3 gets a budget of X plus Y dollars

Of course we could go with WOE AND DOOM AND GLOOM AND NERD TEARS AND CANCEL MY PREORDER BIOWARE

But then its EA's bad decision and not biowares... Someone has still decided to allocate resouces to multiplayer when they could be spending it on Single player. 

Whether it is wasted or not is entirely subjective... but that money absolutely could have been used on SP... and I don't think I am alone in wishing it had been

Modifié par culletron1, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:48 .

[Shia Luck]

don-mika wrote...

no way that each race can be each class.
Theres no Krogan- biotics (at least not so many), and i don`t remember
Quarian or Geth used biotic power

even human biotic which will have enough power to hit somebody is a rarity

PS3 player? Wrex had biotics in ME1.

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Ah, no AI companions - it just adjusts to the number of players. Good to know that at least.

Depends which review you read...

...for example

we managed to do okay for the first few waves of smaller Geths, but
since we were split up and only a team of three, we were soon
outnumbered and killed when the cloaked Geths came out to play. The
difficulty of levels does not scale based on headcount, so I was much
happier when we were joined by a fourth player for the next attempt.

[spirosz]

SpelMalmer wrote...

I run a small swedish gaming blog but yesterday I got the chance to play the multiplayer in ME3 myself. I usually really dislike multiplayer games and modes and was very sceptical to its inclusion in my favorite game series, Mass Effect. However, after trying it out I must say that I am in love. It has so much Mass Effect feeling and the powers and shields, barriers and objectives makes for a highly strategic but high tempo game. I like these shooter mechanics way more than those in Gears 3 for instance. But that's just my opinion.

So anyways, this is the first time I've fallen in love with a multiplayer mode. So the jaded gamers at IGN etc. might feel it is mediocre. For me, it is the only multiplayer game I'm willing to play. So let them have their Call of Dutys and Battlefields.

I'm in love with this.

PS. I played as a female human adept. Singularity and warp as main powers. Would have gotten pull aswell, but the user I was playing as was at level 1 and couldn't access it yet. DS.

Sounds great, thanks for the post. By the way, how does it feel to use your powers with other players, did it flow well (I'm assuming it still needs a few bugs to fix)? 


PS. Thanks Isaac for all the info!

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Someone With Mass wrote...

SpelMalmer wrote...

Mr. MannlyMan wrote...

SpelMalmer wrote...
...

Do you have a fuller preview on your blog? Link?

It's all in swedish, but here you go:
http://www.spelkrige...-3-multiplayer/

He also said that he only got to play a developer version of the game, which is also rather incomplete.

Doesn't mean it isn't informative. We at least get to hear about the basics of classes and skills as they relate to MP.

[Faerlyte]

Mmmm, I love Gears of War, Halo, and Mass Effect. I think the ME Universe has great potential for an incredible MP game, but I'm not sure adding it in to the tail end of the RPG trilogy is the best way of taking advantage of it. I'd want an ME based MP to be all that it can be because its got the makings to be one, but yeah...I feel like this will be an afterthought kind of thing that doesn't amount to all that it can.

But hey, maybe it's just a teaser for something more in depth later on? And I'd just like to say that I find it very, very hard to believe that it trumps the level of epic you get from 50 waves of horde in Gears of War 3. That's a 3 to 4 hour endeavor that you absolutely have to depend on your friends, and they depend on you, to make it through to the end. I'm a big horde fan though. If they do manage something of that quality, but with the variety of talents provided in the ME Universe, it would be wicked cool.

[Shia Luck]

culletron1 wrote...

Pattonesque wrote...

RolandX9 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

*sigh*

Bioware Montreal was founded in 2009 with hole point to assists other Bioware studios project.
In other words, a back up just in case.

Like for example, Bioware Montreal did every ME2 DLC since Overlord and now they're doing ME3 Co-Op.

Yes, those are the resources being wasted.  What's your point?

If they were doing nothing then resources would be wasted.
People in that studio have to be payed.

And doing DLC's already would be BS.

So no, resources are not wasted.

*sigh* You Fail Logic Forever.

A development team does not have limitless resources. Resources for any facet of a game mean resources not applied to another facet. Whether you think MP is a good idea or not, money devoted to hiring its developers is money not devoted to developing levels/characters/mechanics for the single-player. Can there be "force-multiplier" design, such as levels that can be shared between the single-player and multiplayer sections? Sure. But dollars are dollars, and no game budget is infinite. Look, just watch some Extra Credits episodes on game development. You'll get the idea.

As for the previews themselves...this is bad, bad news. It's one thing to be anti-multiplayer (which, full disclosure, I am), but it's another thing to watch the comments roll in and watch ME3's future Metacritic rating take a hit. Reviewers do mark down games for multiplayer that doesn't measure up, even if the SP is top of the class. I've seen reviews state this openly. I imagine most of you have too. This does not bode well. I'd rather no MP at all (especially since I'm a 360 owner who refuses to buy Gold), but if it has to be there, it has to be excellent. I'm actually a little stunned that Bioware didn't see this coming.

More likely scenario:

Mass Effect 3 sans multiplayer gets a budget of X dollars

The decision is made to add multiplayer.

Mass Effect 3 gets a budget of X plus Y dollars

Of course we could go with WOE AND DOOM AND GLOOM AND NERD TEARS AND CANCEL MY PREORDER BIOWARE

But then its EA's bad decision and not biowares... Someone has still decided to allocate resouces to multiplayer when they could be spending it on Single player. 

Whether it is wasted or not is entirely subjective... but that money absolutely could have been used on SP... and I don't think I am alone in wishing it had been

Seriously?  this is laughable now. I can understand the argument that you may think it was originally SP only and then some suits at EA, at a really late stage, told BW to do MP within the existing budget. (but you;ll never know if it is true or not so kind of pointless, and it goes counter to absolutely everything we have heard)

... but that they originally would have said "do MP and SP" and set the budget for doing both....  and you think they would have set the same budget for SP only? That's a total joke.

[don-mika]

The Spamming Troll wrote...




wrex is a biotic. i think all krogans are born with biotic potential.

quarian and geth arent in MP so who friggin cares.

adept shepard is better then any other biotic in game, other then harbinger.

Krogan biotic individuals are rare. In ME1+ME2 we meet somewhere around 5 of krogans that got biotic ability. And they all battlemaster, where from in MP tons of battlemasters came from?

Shepard is a Shepard, don`t compare him with others. Biotic that can raise box from the flour already considered like powerful, only because they can do it. Theres a couple of human biotic that after that can do something more, they empty after picking the box.

Who powerful biotic? Genetic Miranda? Tortured Jack? Alienko with experimental implant...
Only Asari were

Modifié par don-mika, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:59 .

[Iakus]

don-mika wrote...

Krogan biotic individuals are rare. In ME1+ME2 we meet somewhere around 5 of krogans that got biotic ability. And they all battlemaster, where from in MP tons of battlemasters came from?

Shepard is a Shepard, don`t compare him with others. Biotic that can raise box from the flour already considered like powerful, only because they can do it. Theres a couple of human biotic that after that can do something more, they empty after picking the box.

Who powerful biotic? Genetic Miranda? Tortured Jack? Alienko with experimental implant...
Only Asari were

Krogan biotics are rare, and all predate the genophage.  The process for krogans to unlock their biotic potential involve surgeries with a high mortality rate.  After the Krogan Rebellions, they simply don't have the numbers to expend on such a process.

[culletron1]

Shia Luck wrote...

culletron1 wrote...


But then its EA's bad decision and not biowares... Someone has still decided to allocate resouces to multiplayer when they could be spending it on Single player. 

Whether it is wasted or not is entirely subjective... but that money absolutely could have been used on SP... and I don't think I am alone in wishing it had been

Seriously?  this is laughable now. I can understand the argument that you may think it was originally SP only and then some suits at EA, at a really late stage, told BW to do MP within the existing budget. (but you;ll never know if it is true or not so kind of pointless, and it goes counter to absolutely everything we have heard)

... but that they originally would have said "do MP and SP" and set the budget for doing both....  and you think they would have set the same budget for SP only? That's a total joke.

I have no idea what you are trying to say... but if opportunity cost is laughable to you then more power to you I guess...

EA/bioware has finite resouces... 

EA/bioware allocates those resources... 

EA/bioware can allocate all those resouces entirely to ME single player... 

EA/bioware can allocate all those resouces to ME multiplayer.... 

EA/bioware can allocate some to ME and some to SP... 

EA/bioware can allocate it all to other games and not bother spending anythine on ME... 

EA/bioware can take all those resources to build a giant golden monument to Hawke.... 

EA/bioware HAS chosen to allocate some of their finite resouces to mass effect MP... 

EA/bioware COULD have used those MP resouces to further polish ME SP... 

Modifié par culletron1, 27 octobre 2011 - 10:04 .

[SpelMalmer]

spiros9110 wrote...

SpelMalmer wrote...

I run a small swedish gaming blog but yesterday I got the chance to play the multiplayer in ME3 myself. I usually really dislike multiplayer games and modes and was very sceptical to its inclusion in my favorite game series, Mass Effect. However, after trying it out I must say that I am in love. It has so much Mass Effect feeling and the powers and shields, barriers and objectives makes for a highly strategic but high tempo game. I like these shooter mechanics way more than those in Gears 3 for instance. But that's just my opinion.

So anyways, this is the first time I've fallen in love with a multiplayer mode. So the jaded gamers at IGN etc. might feel it is mediocre. For me, it is the only multiplayer game I'm willing to play. So let them have their Call of Dutys and Battlefields.

I'm in love with this.

PS. I played as a female human adept. Singularity and warp as main powers. Would have gotten pull aswell, but the user I was playing as was at level 1 and couldn't access it yet. DS.

Sounds great, thanks for the post. By the way, how does it feel to use your powers with other players, did it flow well (I'm assuming it still needs a few bugs to fix)? 


PS. Thanks Isaac for all the info!

Most of the time (except for some local network issues and game bugs) it felt just like playing single-player, in that I could use my singularities and whatnot and they could toss grenades and it all worked fine. 

Oh, and someone mentioned above that the game was balanced for four people. We played three people, and then it was a bit hard (but still fun). However, the Bioware rep assured us that balancing for fewer ppl was something that would be added in the final version.

Modifié par SpelMalmer, 27 octobre 2011 - 10:08 .

[shepskisaac]

spiros9110 wrote...

PS. Thanks Isaac for all the info!

My pleasure!

[Shia Luck]

culletron1 wrote...

Shia Luck wrote...

culletron1 wrote...


But then its EA's bad decision and not biowares... Someone has still decided to allocate resouces to multiplayer when they could be spending it on Single player. 

Whether it is wasted or not is entirely subjective... but that money absolutely could have been used on SP... and I don't think I am alone in wishing it had been

Seriously?  this is laughable now. I can understand the argument that you may think it was originally SP only and then some suits at EA, at a really late stage, told BW to do MP within the existing budget. (but you;ll never know if it is true or not so kind of pointless, and it goes counter to absolutely everything we have heard)

... but that they originally would have said "do MP and SP" and set the budget for doing both....  and you think they would have set the same budget for SP only? That's a total joke.

I have no idea what you are trying to say...

So the rest of your post is irrelevant, no?

Start at the beginning... they set a budget for a certain project.... either it included MP or it didn't, no?

1. it included MP and they set the budget appropriately.
2. It didn't include Mp and they set the budget appropriately.

ok so far?

So can you agree that the budget for 1 was more than the budget for 2?

If you can, then you have to see that any argument about using the budget that was designed for MP to improve the SP game is completely silly... because the money didn't exist, no?

[Travie]

I really hope they aren't forcing us into it in order to get a better endgame result, because many of the reviews make it sound like that.

[Rivercurse]

Travie wrote...

I really hope they aren't forcing us into it in order to get a better endgame result, because many of the reviews make it sound like that.

Yes but we know better than that don't we, because we've read the stickied FAQ, haven't we.

[SNascimento]

SpelMalmer wrote...

I run a small swedish gaming blog but yesterday I got the chance to play the multiplayer in ME3 myself. I usually really dislike multiplayer games and modes and was very sceptical to its inclusion in my favorite game series, Mass Effect. However, after trying it out I must say that I am in love. It has so much Mass Effect feeling and the powers and shields, barriers and objectives makes for a highly strategic but high tempo game. I like these shooter mechanics way more than those in Gears 3 for instance. But that's just my opinion.

So anyways, this is the first time I've fallen in love with a multiplayer mode. So the jaded gamers at IGN etc. might feel it is mediocre. For me, it is the only multiplayer game I'm willing to play. So let them have their Call of Dutys and Battlefields.

I'm in love with this.

PS. I played as a female human adept. Singularity and warp as main powers. Would have gotten pull aswell, but the user I was playing as was at level 1 and couldn't access it yet. DS.

.
Good to hear this. Can you get a little more deep in your comparison between ME3 shooter mechanics vs Gears 3's? I really liked the latter and want to know if ME3's can live to its quality.

Modifié par SNascimento, 27 octobre 2011 - 10:57 .

[AdmiralCheez]

So, not the greatest co-op combat experience out there, but good enough to be fun. I can live with that.

[Takio]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

So, not the greatest co-op combat experience out there, but good enough to be fun. I can live with that.

That's what I was expecting. If you want good mp, buy Gears of War or Halo. 

[Someone With Mass]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

So, not the greatest co-op combat experience out there, but good enough to be fun. I can live with that.

I didn't expect more than that either.

[SmokePants]

culletron1 wrote...

But then its EA's bad decision and not biowares... Someone has still decided to allocate resouces to multiplayer when they could be spending it on Single player. 

Whether it is wasted or not is entirely subjective... but that money absolutely could have been used on SP... and I don't think I am alone in wishing it had been

Do you complain that there are commercials for Mass Effect games, considering that money "could have" been put into the campaign?

Familiarize yourself with the concept of a return-on-investment curve. Each additional dollar pumped into an already resource-infused SP campaign has less and less of an impact on the sales Mass Effect 3 will generate. Multiplayer, like advertising, presents a new ROI curve for them to exploit. Each dollar invested will ultimately be more meaningful to the end result of sales and profit, to a certain point.

There is an ideal amount of resources that should be spent on each. EA and BioWare know exactly how much a ME game that scores in the upper-9's will sell. They are trying to grow their userbase and it would be absolutely foolish to think you can accomplish that by making the campaign ever-so-slightly better than the last.

Modifié par SmokePants, 27 octobre 2011 - 11:09 .

[DiebytheSword]

SmokePants wrote...

culletron1 wrote...

But then its EA's bad decision and not biowares... Someone has still decided to allocate resouces to multiplayer when they could be spending it on Single player. 

Whether it is wasted or not is entirely subjective... but that money absolutely could have been used on SP... and I don't think I am alone in wishing it had been

Do you complain that there are commercials for Mass Effect games, considering that money "could have" been put into the campaign?

Familiarize yourself with the concept of a return-on-investment curve. Each additional dollar pumped into an already resource-infused SP campaign has less and less of an impact on the sales Mass Effect 3 will generate. Multiplayer, like advertising, presents a new ROI curve for them to exploit. Each dollar invested will ultimately be more meaningful to the end result of sales and profit, to a certain point.

There is an ideal amount of resources that should be spent on each. EA and BioWare know exactly how much a ME game that scores in the upper-9's will sell. They are trying to grow their userbase and it would be absolutely foolish to think you can accomplish that by making the campaign ever-so-slightly better than the last.

Well said, unfortunately not everyone understands the concept of diminishing returns.  Yes you can throw too much money at it.  No, more money, people, machines, hands in the pot, chiefs in the tribe won't help.

[The Spamming Troll]

don-mika wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...




wrex is a biotic. i think all krogans are born with biotic potential.

quarian and geth arent in MP so who friggin cares.

adept shepard is better then any other biotic in game, other then harbinger.

Krogan biotic individuals are rare. In ME1+ME2 we meet somewhere around 5 of krogans that got biotic ability. And they all battlemaster, where from in MP tons of battlemasters came from?

Shepard is a Shepard, don`t compare him with others. Biotic that can raise box from the flour already considered like powerful, only because they can do it. Theres a couple of human biotic that after that can do something more, they empty after picking the box.

Who powerful biotic? Genetic Miranda? Tortured Jack? Alienko with experimental implant...
Only Asari were

i wouldnt base alot of the MEuniverse on gameplay from ME2. its really easy to make a list of all the horrible implementations put into ME2 that go against its own lore, ME1, science, as well common sense. have you ever seen a female alien thats not an asari? i mean did you ever see another adept? maybe shepard IS the only adept! or maybe not.  i wouldnt say you cant be a human biotic only because youd be in the minority. thats not reason enough to say what your sayin.

er, what are we even argueing about?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 27 octobre 2011 - 11:14 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Someone With Mass wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

So, not the greatest co-op combat experience out there, but good enough to be fun. I can live with that.

I didn't expect more than that either.

is a little fun worth it?

[clopin]

"Look guys, hands on previews!"
"That money should've been spent on single-player."

I hate how every thread on MP just devolves into this.

[armass]

WHy is there no local co-op splitscreen?

[morrie23]

armass wrote...

WHy is there no local co-op splitscreen?

Because you can't charge used game buyers $10 for a code to play offline splitscreen. /cynicism

Modifié par morrie23, 27 octobre 2011 - 11:36 .