527 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Meh... I chalked Horizon up to an emotionally charged moment and people say silly things when emotions get whipped up. Its water under the bridge - Me 3 - we have bigger fish to fry or bigger space squid to fry. Much Bigger

[happy_daiz]

^Exactly. Besides, Shepard is lucky that the VS gave him/her the time of day, after a 2-year disappearing act.

[Aurora313]

The way I see their mentalities is this.

Shepard: Has been told that he was gone for two years, yet could not completely understand it on an emotional and/or intellectual level until his VS (in this case, Ashley) gave him a metaphorical slap across the face and 'What the hell, Hero?' routine. Like Shepard 'wanted' to work with Cerberus. Hell - he's f*cking pissed off about Akuze still, and if I had my choice, I'd of make reference to the fact EVERY chance I go.

Ashley: Dealing with the guilt, grief and possibly implied suicidal intentions after losing the only person who actually gave a rats ass about her, her feelings and her as an individual. Spent the last year of his life hunting terrorists and then finds out he 'wasn't' dead, but 'working for' the enemy.

In short, they were not in their proper mind-sets. Therefore, I can forgive the crappy reunion from a lore-telling point of view. In reality, it's just a crappy excuse for a plot shield.

As for fem!shep's Horizon? I couldn't care less if I tried, I'm gonna hook her up with Vega if he's availible in ME3

Modifié par Aurora313, 31 octobre 2011 - 01:44 .

[DragonIroh001]

iakus wrote...

alperez wrote...

iakus wrote...

I can't take Horizon itself too seriously, except as a slap in the face by the writers.  

This is the only universal truth regarding Horizon, the only thing thats actually set in stone.

Whether you agree or disagree with the stance the VS's takes or whether you agree of disagree with what motivates them to take that stance, pretty much everyone can agree that the writers messed up big time.

Whatever reasoning or justification or whatever intent they tried to portray gets so lost in a combination of bad writing and trying to be all things to everyone, that we get left with a jumbled mess that forces us to almost rewrite the scene just to make it make some sort of sense.

And that's the big question.  How will ME3 handle it?  How do we want it to be handled?

I believe that Jennifer Hale mentioned something with regards to Shepard and A/K interaction that was mentioned in the Ashley Williams Thread.
Here it is...

"Shepard, however, is forced to save one character and sacrifice the
other, and, in Mass Effect 2, whichever of the two was saved reappears
to remonstrate with him or her. The result of the conversation, which
can play out in various ways, determines how the character of A/K will
interact with Shepard in Mass Effect 3."

"The new scene involves a
tense exchange between Shepard and A/K. The first line of the scene was
simple enough: 'Let her/him go.' But Hale had to say it multiple times,
with different emphases, in order to communicate every possible state
of alarm with which Shepard would react to A/K. Hale did her customary
four takes of "Let her go," which she followed with four takes of "Let
him go." Two were growly, hateful takes, and two were hard, urgent
takes. As she finished, Hale flexed as if to indicate a deepening
transformation into Shepard. She was then told that her lines had to be
recorded as though she were running.

Hale's next line was 'No!' Livingstone turned to Walters and asked, 'Is this a panicked 'No' or an angry 'No?''
'It's a' - Walters hesitated - 'futile 'No.''
Hale nodded. 'No!' she said, stirringly, a moment later.
'More compassion,' Livingstone said. 'Less heightened.'
Hale tried again, and her 'No!' seemed to emerge from some alarmed, half-strangled place in her throat."

Modifié par DragonIroh001, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:57 .

[DragonIroh001]

Double post

Modifié par DragonIroh001, 31 octobre 2011 - 03:57 .

[Blze001]

Mara might be... icy towards Ashley for awhile, but she can't exactly fault her for acting like she did.

On the one hand, she's hurt that Ashley didn't trust her.
On the other, she did roll up with a Cerberus lackey in tow.

[alperez]

Tyko Brian wrote...

No.

My Shepard had a romantic relation with her in ME1 & he was traumatized at her behavior in horizon. Where Ashley is concerned My Shep gets real emotional, but the responsbility he has in his shoulders is bigger than their relationship: bigger than anything... so to stay completely focused in his near impossible mission to eradicate the reaper threat he has decided to steer clear from the Gunnery Chief til the mission's accomplished...

Wow, your shepard has issues lol.

Seriously though being called out on what looks to be you doing something really wrong by the person you love would traumatise you and force you to cut all romantic ties with that person until you finish whatever it is your working on?

In real life wouldn't restoring the relationship with the person you supposedly love be the most important thing that you could do, wouldn't ever other single thing take a backseat to that?

For most people i'm guessing the answer would be yes, traumatised or not, in fact if they were so traumatised by those actions then wouldn't it make it even more imperative to restore that relationship just so they could focus on the task at hand without being traumatised.

[alperez]

iakus wrote...

And that's the big question.  How will ME3 handle it?  How do we want it to be handled?

It really is the 64'000 dollar question isn't it.

How they will handle it if i was to guess would be to almost forget about the reasons behind why the VS acted how they did or deal with it in the most simplistic manner, i think LOSB kinda shows how they may go with things.

To repair the relationship with Liara basically requires what, a couple of leading questions from Shepard regarding Liara and then an almost admission from Shepard that he still cares about her and wants the relationship to continue, so i can see them going pretty much the same route with the VS.

Basically, they'll be coy and almost professional until Shepard asks a couple of leading questions, we'll then get some sort of admission they were wrong and some kind of open statement regarding the relationship being over "it was 2 years ago, we've changed, we've both moved on" or something like that leading to Shepard saying something like "I haven't, i'm still the same person, i still feel the same way about you", cue music for restoration of relationship and we're back in the same place we we're 2 years previously.

How i'd like them to handle it is pretty different but it would require a seriously long post (which surprisingly i do a lot lol) but perhaps needs to be done in a seperate thread or something.

[SnakeStrike8]

General User wrote...

Obviously a major military campaign in the Terminus is no small matter. It's just that anything that makes a business of completely depopulating human colonies, like the Collectors, is almost certainly a threat to the Alliance itself.

With that in mind, the Alliance has an absolute obligation to investigate the threat and, depending on their findings, they may not only have the right to intervene but the obligation to do so. With regards to independent colonies that could mean anything from a temporary occupation, to forcing them to accept protectorate status, to outright annexation.

Of course since, as of Horizon, the Alliance never got past step one, and the crisis was resolved before any major decisions were made, it's impossible to say how far it would ultimately have gone.

Not very far at all, sadly.
Politicians have become one of those generic enemies that writers love to spin at us. They're all totally and shamelessly corrupt and won't blink twice before throwing a schoolchild under a bus to save their skins. The Bioware writers would have us believe that the Alliance would continue to blame the vanishings on pirates up until and including the abduction of Eden Prime itself.
That was the main sticking point of the plot with me. Bioware was so intent on turning the game into a 'collect your squadmates' epic that they ignored the little things like this. What, no-one is concerned about colonies that totally drop out of contact without a word? And the phenomenon has been occuring more often lately? How thinly spread is the Alliance? They spare one frigate (Normandy) to take a look-see, and when the ship is shot down by an unknown entity and enough of the ship and its crew survive to raise enough suspicions on a new alien race hostile toward the Alliance, their only response is to bury everything? For two full years? And then they send one guy out to a fringe world on rumours?
For shame, Alliance. Are you all staffed by World War 2 era British Intelligence officers?

[alperez]

Snake

I completely agree on all the points you make, but i would say one thing, since mass effect is supposed on some levels to represent a real life experience, isn't having politicians behaving like politicians well real life?

What i mean is look at how the reports pre 9/11 were handled, look at how the warnings raised by people before the financial crisis really took place were examined, hell look at the way they dealt with the warnings about Bernie Madoff before finally taking some action.

Politicians in our world react to the situations only when they reach a certain point, when it becomes a complete neccessity to act, up to that point its almost as if bury thier heads in the sand and hope it goes away is the standard operating procedure when dealing with a crisis.

So in reality why should we expect the politicians in mass effect to act differently than the ones in our own world.

[Iakus]

alperez wrote...

iakus wrote...

And that's the big question.  How will ME3 handle it?  How do we want it to be handled?

It really is the 64'000 dollar question isn't it.

How they will handle it if i was to guess would be to almost forget about the reasons behind why the VS acted how they did or deal with it in the most simplistic manner, i think LOSB kinda shows how they may go with things.

To repair the relationship with Liara basically requires what, a couple of leading questions from Shepard regarding Liara and then an almost admission from Shepard that he still cares about her and wants the relationship to continue, so i can see them going pretty much the same route with the VS.

Basically, they'll be coy and almost professional until Shepard asks a couple of leading questions, we'll then get some sort of admission they were wrong and some kind of open statement regarding the relationship being over "it was 2 years ago, we've changed, we've both moved on" or something like that leading to Shepard saying something like "I haven't, i'm still the same person, i still feel the same way about you", cue music for restoration of relationship and we're back in the same place we we're 2 years previously.

How i'd like them to handle it is pretty different but it would require a seriously long post (which surprisingly i do a lot lol) but perhaps needs to be done in a seperate thread or something.

I see something similar.

Basically, "getting reaquainted" with them as if they were new characters.  Even "re-romancing" them.  Sad really.

What I'd like to see would actially be a LOTSB-style "personal mission" with them that ties into the Reaper invasion.  Maybe some kind of Spectre assignment you can help them with (or get teamed up to do, if Shep's a Spectre too)  Over the course of the mission you learn how they've been spending their two years futiley trying to help Anderson convince the Council and the Alliance the truth about the Reaper threat.  Investigations into Cerberus and the awful things they've been hearing about Shep's connection.

 During the mission, they'd uncover evidence of TIM faking evidence of Shepard's involvement in Cerberus activities, perhaps even including Shep leading the SR1 into a trap.  With further plans to do more than just smear Shep's name.  Plus a plot to discredit/assassinate the VS as well.

In the end it comes down them them realizing they'd both been pawns in TIM's machinations, he deliberately set them up to be at odds  with each other, and has his own plans for humanity's survival.  Plans which ultimately, don't include Shepard or the VS.

[Tyko Brian]

jreezy wrote...

Really? Wow I think the galaxy may be doomed. If your Shepard can't handle trust issues then I don't know how he's going to stop an ancient race of genocidal machines from harvesting almost everything in the galaxy.

------------------------------

Don't worry, My Shep is having trouble with trust issues, not combat issues. And besides, the reapers are completely 'trustworthy' when it comes to destroying the galaxy. They don't do a omplete 180 change of attitude like some1 he met on horizon...

Modifié par Tyko Brian, 01 novembre 2011 - 04:56 .

[Tyko Brian]

@ jreezy

I know! The dev's totally screwed up VS in horizon. I have a LOT to complain on this topic!!

[Quole]

You cant trust them pre-horizon.

[Meesherbeans]

Mesina2 wrote...

Why wouldn't I trust VS do to Shepard being a giant derp on Horizon?

Preeeeeeeeetty much that. Shepard was a pretty big idiot on Horizon, and the VS (in my personal opinion) reacted in a human way. They were really upset that someone they believed to be dead for two years randomly appears, acting like nothing had happened...oh, and working with an enemy they both hunted down before the Normandy became space dust. Add in the fact that they also may have been in love with Shepard and it really makes sense to me.

I just don't get the betrayal angle. The "you broke up with me / didn't trust me" angle, sure. But betrayal? Meh. This motivational sums up my feelings pretty much perfectly (assuming you romanced them):

So yeah. I blame Shepard for being a massive failure of a person on Horizon, and see no reason not to trust them in ME3. *shrug* Each to their own, though! 

[PorcelynDoll]

jreezy wrote...

Tyko Brian wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Really? Wow I think the galaxy may be doomed. If your Shepard can't handle trust issues then I don't know how he's going to stop an ancient race of genocidal machines from harvesting almost everything in the galaxy.

------------------------------

Don't worry, My Shep is having trouble with trust issues, not combt issues. And besides, the reapers are completely trustworthy when it comes to destroying the galaxy. They don't do a omplete 180 change of attitude like some1 he met on horizon...

Honestly what happened on Horizon wasn't that much of a 180 depending on who it is. I expected what happened on Horizon from Ash but it's seems very out of character from Kaidan.

I totally agree. It's like he didn't even hear the I'm sorry, I was dead for 2 years. The whole meeting seemed to be slanted toward renagade outcome no matter what you said to him. A lot of the convsation felt strange to me.

[Quole]

jreezy wrote...

Quole wrote...

You cant trust them pre-horizon.

That may be taking it a bit far.

No. You cant trust anyone. Ever.

[CptData]

Meesherbeans wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Why wouldn't I trust VS do to Shepard being a giant derp on Horizon?

Preeeeeeeeetty much that. Shepard was a pretty big idiot on Horizon, and the VS (in my personal opinion) reacted in a human way. They were really upset that someone they believed to be dead for two years randomly appears, acting like nothing had happened...oh, and working with an enemy they both hunted down before the Normandy became space dust. Add in the fact that they also may have been in love with Shepard and it really makes sense to me.

Exactly. I mean first they hugged, then the VS asked why Shepard was away & is working for Cerberus now. And all Shepard says is stupid. S/he even tries to recruit the VS for HIS mission. Lets say if someone I believe s/he betrayed what I am standing for is asking me to betray that, I'll lash out as well. 
Mr. "Suave" Shepard who can talk down Saren to commit suicide is unable to convince the VS that he -has- to work for Cerberus to find out more about abductions and to end this threat ...

I just don't get the betrayal angle. The "you broke up with me / didn't trust me" angle, sure. But betrayal? Meh. This motivational sums up my feelings pretty much perfectly (assuming you romanced them):

So yeah. I blame Shepard for being a massive failure of a person on Horizon, and see no reason not to trust them in ME3. *shrug* Each to their own, though! 

Indeed. By the way: Shepard was heartbroken after Horizon. At least it felt like that to me when he was talking to Kelly. Sure, Shepard will go over it, but still - my m!Shep felt like a broken man for a few seconds.

However I can see that the VS and Shepard will make up in ME3.

[Iakus]

PorcelynDoll wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Tyko Brian wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Really? Wow I think the galaxy may be doomed. If your Shepard can't handle trust issues then I don't know how he's going to stop an ancient race of genocidal machines from harvesting almost everything in the galaxy.

------------------------------

Don't worry, My Shep is having trouble with trust issues, not combt issues. And besides, the reapers are completely trustworthy when it comes to destroying the galaxy. They don't do a omplete 180 change of attitude like some1 he met on horizon...

Honestly what happened on Horizon wasn't that much of a 180 depending on who it is. I expected what happened on Horizon from Ash but it's seems very out of character from Kaidan.

I totally agree. It's like he didn't even hear the I'm sorry, I was dead for 2 years. The whole meeting seemed to be slanted toward renagade outcome no matter what you said to him. A lot of the convsation felt strange to me.

To a point, I agree.  But I think the whole arguement was aimed at Shepard being pretty renegade regardless of previous choices made.  

[Iakus]

Meesherbeans wrote...

So yeah. I blame Shepard for being a massive failure of a person on Horizon, and see no reason not to trust them in ME3. *shrug* Each to their own, though! 

I like that motivational.

But yeah, that was part of the problem with Horizon:  It didn't fit.  Shep's meetings fell into one of three broad categories:

1) Those who said "Suicide Misson?  Where do I sign up?" 

2) Those who politely wished Shepard well:  Liara, Tali (at first) Anderson, Wrex, arguably Hackett and th alien Council ("Ah, yes, "Reapers" aside)

3) The VS who called Shepard a traitor and stalked away.

There's no logical reason why the VS couldn't have been part of group 2.  Particularly since Anderson was.  It was an artficial confrontationmeant for nothing more than drama, to give Shep an excuse to pursue an ME2 hottie, and perhaps to sero out the relationship for ME3.  That's why ME3 will have to do some fancy spin doctoring to have Horizon make sense.

But that said, I'm glad the VS is back, I'm willing to let bygones be bygones as long as the characters haven't been further monkeyed with.  

My Shepard trusts the VS, even if they don't trust him.  I don't blame the character for bad writing.

[Aurora313]

Shepard trusts them to get the job done, re-earning their trust is the challenge.

[Asari_Party]

I didn't trust Ashley in ME1 (How can I trust someone who can't tell the aliens from the animals?), Horizon didn't change anything.