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[Rinji the Bearded]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

This thread has it backwards. It's not "can you trust the VS after Horizon?". It's "Can the VS trust Shepard after Horizon?" After all, Shepard dissapeared two years to come back as member of a known criminal organization and suspicioulsy in time to save the colonies after a new, until then unknown threat emerged.
That's enough to raise a few eyebrows.

Didn't stop Tali and Garrus from trusting Shepard.

Neither Tali or Garrus are part of the Alliance army, who openly denounce Cerberus. 

[WardenMaster]

how can you not trust ash after looking at this  \\/

[Drinking Shepard]

Post Horizon - yes, post the spoilers - starting to doubt it 

[Rinji the Bearded]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

And there starts the problem that people have with the VS. Tali and the Quarians have the same views about Cerberus as Ashley/Kaidan and the Alliance but she puts that behind her because she respects Shepard, that's her friend, or both.

Is it wrong to have something against Cerberus?  It also doesn't help that Garrus and Tali were specifically targeted by the Illusive Man in the Dossiers, allowing their paths to cross with Shepard.  There was no way that TIM would have allowed interference from the Alliance, however.

He did brilliantly set up Shepard to look bad, though.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 08 novembre 2011 - 08:40 .

[AtreiyaN7]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

This thread has it backwards. It's not "can you trust the VS after Horizon?". It's "Can the VS trust Shepard after Horizon?" After all, Shepard dissapeared two years to come back as member of a known criminal organization and suspicioulsy in time to save the colonies after a new, until then unknown threat emerged.
That's enough to raise a few eyebrows.

Didn't stop Tali and Garrus from trusting Shepard.

Neither Tali or Garrus are part of the Alliance army, who openly denounce Cerberus. 

I've always thought that the VS had every right to be suspicious about Shepard since he/she is a member of the Alliance and has had no communication from Shepard at all (possibly even thinking Shepard was dead), only to see him/her suddenly in the employ of Cerberus.

This is an organization that the VS and Shepard actively fought against in ME1. If I suddenly saw a friend in the employ of a terrorist organization that was responsible for a series of terrible experiments AND murdering an admiral (Admiral Kahoku), I don't know that I'd take that friend at their word at first. I'd wonder if THEY had been experimented upon by Cerberus or brainwashed by them.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 08 novembre 2011 - 08:47 .

[Topaz Bee]

Shepard has a history of taking untrustworthy individuals into hisher crew, and at the very least trusting them enough to run around freely. So... no reason why the VS is any different.

As for whether I, the player, trust them? I absolutely trust them to do everything they were scripted to do. No more, no less.

/boringanswer

[AtreiyaN7]

Topaz Bee wrote...

Shepard has a history of taking untrustworthy individuals into hisher crew, and at the very least trusting them enough to run around freely. So... no reason why the VS is any different.

As for whether I, the player, trust them? I absolutely trust them to do everything they were scripted to do. No more, no less.

/boringanswer

Just because Shepard is willing to take risks and trust every being that comes aboard the Normandy doesn't mean that that's how other people should react. Different people have different views, opinions and psyches. They're not all behavioral clones of Shepard, nor should they all do (or be expected to do) what Shepard does.

[Cutlass Jack]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Neither Tali or Garrus are part of the Alliance army, who openly denounce Cerberus. 

True. They're just aliens. They'd have no reason whatsoever to distrust an pro-human anti-alien terrorist organization that attacked the Quarian fleet.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Neither Tali or Garrus are part of the Alliance army, who openly denounce Cerberus. 

True. They're just aliens. They'd have no reason whatsoever to distrust an pro-human anti-alien terrorist organization that attacked the Quarian fleet.

Of course they don't.   And neither do Kaidan or Ashley, who are in a military organizaton that would courtmarshal them and strip them of all rank for working with the enemy.  Garrus and Tali do not stand to lose nearly as much as they do, and Shepard was able to help them because Cerberus allowed it.   Shepard aided Garrus in his vigilante justice and also aided the Quarian fleet, but do you think Cerberus would have aided the Alliance in anything?

Or is it wrong to have loyalty to the Alliance?  It's not as if Kaidan and Ashley have been in the Alliance since before they knew Shepard and have formed their own loyalties beyond Shepard -- WAIT Shepard isn't the center of the universe????

[Another_Golden_Dragon]

Garrus trusted Shepard after Shepard came to his rescue, twice, in fact saving his life. And furthermore, TIM didn't actually know that Archangel and Garrus were one and the same (he even says so) until part-way thru the mission.

Tali is suspicious, but does trust Shepard, at least partially, on Freedom's Progress. And is also saved by Shepard on Haestrum. She even says that she's here to help Shepard.

And another point: Maybe both Garrus and Tali join up to try and convince Shepard to LEAVE Cerberus.

[BobZilla84]

To me it's not a matter of trusting Ashley Williams and Kaiden Alenko I do still trust them because the thing that needs to be remembered is that they are Alliance Soldiers and they answer to The Alliance first and foremost.

Trust is not the Issue for me as much as the Romance is the thing for me.I don't see Shepley and Shenko having a Happy Ending in Mass Effect 3.

I don't trust The Alliance Anderson and Hackett Included mainly because Trust goes both ways and it's apparent during Mass Effect 2 Anderson doesn't trust Shepard he refuse's to give Shepard any Info on The VS and then when confronted about it after Horizon he uses Cerberus as a Excuse for lying to a person he had previously had full faith in enough that he either got Shot or punched out Udina.

As for Hackett he essentially sent Shepard in the Lion's Den he told Shepard that if things go bad Shepard would have to take the Fall for the Alliance during The Arrival Hackett knew Shepard would not let a War begin between The Alliance and The Batarians The Alliance saw the perfect chance to cover up one of their mistakes and also capture Shepard and get the Normandy back in the process.

That's the one major thing about Mass Effect 3 that bothers me I wish we would be able to Hijack The Normandy and cut all affilation with The Alliance going Rogue I wouldn't care if it made the game more difficult I would go Rogue everytime because in my opinion F*** The Council and Their Spectre's and F*** The Alliance also F*** Cerberus.

Rogue Shepard is the best way to go in my opinion

[Ryzaki]

jreezy wrote...

Another_Golden_Dragon wrote...

Garrus trusted Shepard after Shepard came to his rescue, twice, in fact saving his life. And furthermore, TIM didn't actually know that Archangel and Garrus were one and the same (he even says so) until part-way thru the mission.

I wouldn't trust his word on anything. He llied about Liara.

I have the feeling that was a gamelay error. 

And it's not TIM's word to Shepard in the report. Shepard doesn't know about the Reports given at the end of each mission (well he knows Miranda gives reports and that TIM comments on it but he doesn't know the contents) that's strictly player info only. Like those scenes were Loghain's talking to Howe in DAO. The warden doesn't have the info but the player does. 

TIM has no reason to lie to himself. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 novembre 2011 - 09:27 .

[Topaz Bee]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Topaz Bee wrote...

Shepard has a history of taking untrustworthy individuals into hisher crew, and at the very least trusting them enough to run around freely. So... no reason why the VS is any different.

As for whether I, the player, trust them? I absolutely trust them to do everything they were scripted to do. No more, no less.

/boringanswer

Just because Shepard is willing to take risks and trust every being that comes aboard the Normandy doesn't mean that that's how other people should react. Different people have different views, opinions and psyches. They're not all behavioral clones of Shepard, nor should they all do (or be expected to do) what Shepard does.

I agree.

[alperez]

After being spoiled by the leak unintentionally though it was i find myself now feeling rather foolish in the creation of this thread.

Without going into details, the problem i find is not whether or not we can trust the VS but actually whether or not we can trust anyone at all.

Characters and situations will be railroaded to suit the narrative bioware want us to follow, irrespective of choices we've made or even character continunity the dye's been cast and whether we agree, disagree or sit there dumbfounded it'll matter not a jot because we never really had any input anway.

The only hope that remains is that because of the extensive nature of what's been leaked it will force bioware to radically change certain things just to prove the leak is as they say "an old build" or to change things up just because so much has been spoiled.

[Ryzaki]

jreezy wrote...
What he said about Liara working for the SB wasn't in the report, he said it to Shepard's face.

Yeah *that* was to Shep's face. Him saying "Garrus as Archangel was unexpected" was in a report. 

[Drone223]

alperez wrote...

After being spoiled by the leak unintentionally though it was i find myself now feeling rather foolish in the creation of this thread.

Without going into details, the problem i find is not whether or not we can trust the VS but actually whether or not we can trust anyone at all.

Characters and situations will be railroaded to suit the narrative bioware want us to follow, irrespective of choices we've made or even character continunity the dye's been cast and whether we agree, disagree or sit there dumbfounded it'll matter not a jot because we never really had any input anway.

The only hope that remains is that because of the extensive nature of what's been leaked it will force bioware to radically change certain things just to prove the leak is as they say "an old build" or to change things up just because so much has been spoiled.

The leak was a draft copy, the final script will be in the game so that may chage a bit

[Keydin Eleenkaw]

Well, I suppose it's reasonable not to trust Shepard for working with Cerberus when they met on Horizon.



But since they team up with Kai Leng to assassinate Shepard on the word of an indoctrinated Udina in ME3, I no longer think I can trust them, no.

[alperez]

Drone223 wrote...


The leak was a draft copy, the final script will be in the game so that may chage a bit

Which was why i added in that some hope remained.

The problem is though, can we actually believe bioware at this point?

Simply put are they engaging in damage limitation or speaking the complete and total truth in regards to just how much of what's been leaked has made it into the final game.

I'd love to be able to believe its the latter, however looking at how the MP announcement was handled and looking at what was said in relation to Dragon age 2's release, bioware aren't as trustworthy as they once were imo.

Then when you add in how certain situations seem to be resolved in this leaked script it also shows they haven't imo been exactly truthful in regards to mass effect either.

[Ryzaki]

jreezy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

jreezy wrote...
What he said about Liara working for the SB wasn't in the report, he said it to Shepard's face.

Yeah *that* was to Shep's face. Him saying "Garrus as Archangel was unexpected" was in a report. 

I wonder if Miranda has access to his mission reports, not that she would need them though since she knows what's going on.

She probably had access to *some* I don't think TIM would trust anyone other than himself with all of them. 

[Yezdigerd]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Neither Tali or Garrus are part of the Alliance army, who openly denounce Cerberus. 

True. They're just aliens. They'd have no reason whatsoever to distrust an pro-human anti-alien terrorist organization that attacked the Quarian fleet.

Of course they don't.   And neither do Kaidan or Ashley, who are in a military organizaton that would courtmarshal them and strip them of all rank for working with the enemy.  Garrus and Tali do not stand to lose nearly as much as they do, and Shepard was able to help them because Cerberus allowed it.   Shepard aided Garrus in his vigilante justice and also aided the Quarian fleet, but do you think Cerberus would have aided the Alliance in anything?

Or is it wrong to have loyalty to the Alliance?  It's not as if Kaidan and Ashley have been in the Alliance since before they knew Shepard and have formed their own loyalties beyond Shepard -- WAIT Shepard isn't the center of the universe????

Tali is on active duty just as well as the VS. The quarian fleet assigns her to the Normandy, but she is doing it for Shepard not Cerberus.

Why wouldn't Cerberus aid the alliance? Cerberus goal is the "advancement of humanity" they are political extremists that share many common interests and it's not coincidence that Normandy is packed with ex-alliance military, or that people like Admiral Hackett doesn't fear boarding their vessels or that people in the alliance shower them in cash.
As for loyalty. Are Joker disloyal? Are Chakwas disloyal for working with the enemy? Are Gabby and Ken traitors for leaving the alliance when the leaders shut up those that claimed the reaper threat was real? Is Jacob disloyal?

These are people that either trust Shepard's judgement or honestly believe the reaper threat should be taken seriously. Essentialy making the same choice the VS did when they trashed the alliance and went to Ilos.  None of them seemed to have been court martialed and facing the death penalty that apparently is the fate of the VS for supporting Shepard.
The loyal to the alliance, hate Cerberus is so contrived since the VS is practically the only one displaying this behaviour. Besides as been pointed out they were sent to investigate Cerberus, wouldn't it be great to play along and try discover more about Cerberus top secret stealthship and their anticollector countermeasures?

Really it's just silly.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 08 novembre 2011 - 11:00 .