527 réponses à ce sujet

[Chun Hei]

The VS does not trust Cerebus. Given ME1 that is justified especially since they specialize at mind control and biological manipulation and Shepard was DEAD.

Liara said she was too busy hacking computer terminals and killing people to help Shepard save the galaxy. Not really sure if that was a good excuse since she had no idea she could become the new SB at the time.

Either way the reason they were not part of the suicide mission was because the writers wanted to save them for major roles in ME3 and anyone could die on the suicide mission except Joker.

SHEPARD: And remember your stupid idea that Cerberus could be working for the Reapers? That had to be the stupidest...

KABOOM! [Enter the indoctrinated Cerberus agents.]

KAIDAN/ASHLEY: You were saying?

Modifié par Chun Hei, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:07 .

[alperez]

iakus

As you and i (or maybe it was you and others and i just jumped in lol) have discussed the various reasons for what's wrong about how horizon itself is presented, i won't bore everyone and go into details about that again, other than to say its supposed to be all things to everyone and instead comes across as not enough to anyone.

But in terms of trusting the VS themselves, well the e-mail pretty much re-establishes some of that trust along with speaking to Anderson post horizon, its clear that the VS has re-evaluated things which then leads back to pretty much how they reacted to Shepard being the key resolution issue.

That they should have trusted him/her despite the lack of evidence, but thats quite easily resolved imo, a simple convo would suffice.

Despite not being able to resolve the situation in me2 (we know the real reason why that was) i don't think we'll face the same obstacles in me3, simply because the original outcome is not where they want to railroad us to this time.

[Rogue Unit]

Chun Hei wrote...

The VS does not trust Cerebus. Given ME1 that is justified especially since they specialize at mind control and biological manipulation and Shepard was DEAD.

Liara said she was too busy hacking computer terminals and killing people to help Shepard save the galaxy. Not really sure if that was a good excuse since she had no idea she could become the new SB at the time.

Either way the reason they were not part of the suicide mission was because the writers wanted to save them for major roles in ME3 and anyone could die on the suicide mission except Joker.

SHEPARD: And remember your stupid idea that Cerberus could be working for the Reapers? That had to be the stupidest...

KABOOM! [Enter the indoctrinated Cerberus agents.]

KAIDAN/ASHLEY: You were saying?

At the time it was a stupid idea. Why would Cerberus destroy the Collector Base if they were working for them? Like it or not, Cerberus were the 'good guys' in the sense that they were combating the big bad.

If Cerberus gets indoctrinated afterwards, it's a different story. At the time they showed no signs of being allies of the Reapers, in fact it was quite the opposite.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:15 .

[CptData]

alperez wrote...

Some people view the VS's actions on Horizon as a betrayal of Shepard, personally i believe while the action taken is a betrayal there are valid reasons why this takes place and once those reasons are understood the position the Vs takes is painted in a completely different light.

Horizon is a unique situation with complicated circumstances, it cannot occur again so the actions the VS takes on Horizon cannot be duplicated imo, some people however feel that because of the actions taken the VS has proved themselves to be untrustworthy and it requires the VS to re-prove themselves to Shepard.

I still trust the VS (in my case Ashley) - it was Shepards fault that she didn't listen - he used the wrong words and even tried to recruit her. How would you react?

'nuff said, that topic is kinda old. Some ppl don't like the VS, either because they never liked him/her before or they didn't get the significance of this scene. Also some bad writing, a missing deeper convo some time later in the game don't help to ease things.

We'll see what's going to happen in ME3.

[shepskisaac]

Rogue Unit wrote...

At the time it was a stupid idea. Why would Cerberus destroy the Collector Base if they were working for them? Like it or not, Cerberus were the 'good guys' in the sense that they were combating the big bad.

If Cerberus gets indoctrinated afterwards, it's a different story. At the time they showed no signs of being allies of the Reaper, in fact it was quite the opposite.

Yes, I didn't see any sings of being allied with teh Reapers. But Cerberus = TIM at no point wanted to destroy the Collector's Base

[Iakus]

scampermax wrote...

Looking at it from the VS's point of view what reason do they have to trust Shepard on Horizon? Two years earlier they were fighting against Cerberus operations and then the VS watched Shepard die. Now, two years later, Shepard is back - alive - and working with Cerberus. I don't blame the VS for feeling betrayed.

the first part is what should have let the VS know that there's something up with the second part.  How could Shepard go from one to the other?  Without some sort of supporting evidence, that is.

It's unfortunate that Shepard wasn't able to convince the VS to come with her, but realistically the VS couldn't just desert the Alliance either. My Shepards will have no problems trusting the VS in ME3.

Agreed.  Asking the VS to join up was one of Shepard's more idiotic lines.

[Rogue Unit]

IsaacShep wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

At the time it was a stupid idea. Why would Cerberus destroy the Collector Base if they were working for them? Like it or not, Cerberus were the 'good guys' in the sense that they were combating the big bad.

If Cerberus gets indoctrinated afterwards, it's a different story. At the time they showed no signs of being allies of the Reaper, in fact it was quite the opposite.

Yes, I didn't see any sings of being allied with teh Reapers. But Cerberus = TIM at no point wanted to destroy the Collector's Base

He still planned to wipe out the Reaper's agents. What he wanted with the Base remains to be seen, but I'm certain he isn't planning on using it to benefit the Reapers.

[upsettingshorts]

The VS is consistent in their behavior. They are right not to trust Shepard, considering he/she was the formerly dead one now working for people they know from their own experience - in ME1 - are bad news.

So to answer the question posed by the OP: Yes.

[Chun Hei]

I am not a fan of Bioware giving away too much information on ME outside of the video game but the books/comics have hinted that TIM my have been indoctrinated for some time. TIM making the Collector's look bad may be a way for him to prove humanity could be more helpful to the Reapers than the Protheans.

Kind of stupid I agree but then ME1 showed that Saren was not always thinking clearly while he was being indoctrinated.

[DiebytheSword]

I trust them, I'm just angry at them after Horizon.

[Chun Hei]

@ Upsettingshorts -- That puppy makes me sad. Give him a cupcake already!

[Drone223]

Yes I understand there perspective, also when the VS meets Shepard was poorly written

I can guess why poeple hate the VS, its most likely since most people want everyone one to bow down to their Shepards like he/she is like some sort of divine being, the VS is proberly one of the few people who can stand up to Shepard, people don't like it when some one stands up to them, though when the VS disagreed with Shepard I  actually liked it,friends will always have disagreements   

[Ryzaki]

No I nor my Sheps trust the VS. No it's not because I want him/her to grovel towards my Shepard. (If that was the case I wouldn't like Wrex and Mordin so much).

My Sheps wants friends that he can count on to think for themselves instead of falling hook line and sinker for BS. They want friends who are by *his* side not some composite image of him they invented. He has that and is happy with it. It's not the VS though.

Of course that's *my* Shep. Others mayhave the VS as that friend. Just not mine.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:37 .

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...

No I nor my Sheps trust the VS. No it's not because I want him/her to grovel towards my Shepard. (If that was the case I wouldn't like Wrex and Mordin so much).

My Sheps wants friends that he can count on to think for themselves instead of falling hook line and sinker for BS. They want friends who are by *his* side not some composite image of him they invented. He has that and is happy with it. It's not the VS though.

Of course that's *my* Shep. Others mayhave the VS as that friend. Just not mine.  

Oh so you basically want mindless slaves and groupies. Well, good luck!

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

No I nor my Sheps trust the VS. No it's not because I want him/her to grovel towards my Shepard. (If that was the case I wouldn't like Wrex and Mordin so much).

My Sheps wants friends that he can count on to think for themselves instead of falling hook line and sinker for BS. They want friends who are by *his* side not some composite image of him they invented. He has that and is happy with it. It's not the VS though.

Of course that's *my* Shep. Others mayhave the VS as that friend. Just not mine.  

Oh so you basically want mindless slaves and groupies. Well, good luck!

 

The fact that you just referred to Mordin and Wrex as mindless slaves and groupies is laughable. Keep trolling. 

Not liking the VS =/= not liking characters with seperate minds and spines. Unlike some of you VS supporters would love to believe the VS isn't some sole character of proving Shepard wrong and being an independant thinker. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:48 .

[Iakus]

alperez wrote...

iakus
But in terms of trusting the VS themselves, well the e-mail pretty much re-establishes some of that trust along with speaking to Anderson post horizon, its clear that the VS has re-evaluated things which then leads back to pretty much how they reacted to Shepard being the key resolution issue.

Some of the trust, yes.  But the confrontation is still a sticking point for a lot of people.  We did agree, the confrontation was meant to be everything to everybody.  But it's become the biggest hurdle ME3 will have to overcome.

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...

The fact that you just referred to Mordin and Wrex as mindless slaves and groupies is laughable. Keep trolling.

I didn't call them that. I said what squadmates you want And lol at trolling, as if you haven't been trolling on VS for months now

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The fact that you just referred to Mordin and Wrex as mindless slaves and groupies is laughable. Keep trolling.

I didn't call them that. I said what squadmates you want And lol at trolling, as if you haven't been trolling on VS for months now

 
Like I said keep trolling. 

[DoNotIngest]

IsaacShep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

No I nor my Sheps trust the VS. No it's not because I want him/her to grovel towards my Shepard. (If that was the case I wouldn't like Wrex and Mordin so much).

My Sheps wants friends that he can count on to think for themselves instead of falling hook line and sinker for BS. They want friends who are by *his* side not some composite image of him they invented. He has that and is happy with it. It's not the VS though.

Of course that's *my* Shep. Others mayhave the VS as that friend. Just not mine.  

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 27 octobre 2011 - 09:51 .

[upsettingshorts]

Some people literally cannot stand when their companions confront them, or have doubts, or question their leadership.

These characters are usually - but not always - my favorites. In every case though, I like that they have an independent thought process. Disagreement is not a problem for me as such, and while not every poster who demands utter devotion from their companions due to the Protagonist's Awesome Ego strikes me as silly... most do.

[Mr.House]

Yup, I still trust them.

[Mr.House]

Skullheart wrote...

I don't trust in the VS because s/he was paralized a few feets away from Lilith and the collectors didn't take her/him. S/He could have been indoctrinated (a sleeper agent) and may betray us in ME3.

If this bs happens, I won't even finish the game.<_<

[shepskisaac]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Why are you posting Talimancers' official logo in a thread about VS?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 27 octobre 2011 - 10:04 .

[Lucky Thirteen]

I know the VS rocketed up in my respect scale because of Horizon. They are smart enough to think for themselves and dare to question Shepard. Yeah feelings were involved, but largely they sensed something was clearly wrong about the whole situation. If Shepard was on the reverse side, in whatever plot they are in, and one of them just appeared after being gone for two years, supposedly dead, and they are with Cerberus, you better believe I'm not going to just go, okay I want to join you.

On our side, we know Shepard is in the right, but on their side they don't know what is going on. I'm glad they are cautious about Shepard's mysterious return. Garrus and Tali both show a lot of caution about it, but their circumstances kind of force them on board.

[DoNotIngest]

IsaacShep wrote...

DoNotIngest wrote...

Why are you posting Talimancers' official logo in a thread about VS?

Oh, is that what those Talimancers are up to? Dear me, how droll.



Allow me to elaborate, old bean. I was merely upholding Mongol tradition, removing unnecessary words in favour of symbolism representing your argument.

*sips tea*

Modifié par DoNotIngest, 27 octobre 2011 - 10:14 .