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Mass Effect 3 Development Decisions


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#1
BeefoTheBold

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There have been a number of large revelations on the development of Mass Effect 3 recently that have come to light. Some people agree with them and some do not.

I am of the opinion of not agreeing with them. On the assumption that it is okay to list recent decisions made by Bioware about Mass Effect 3 and debate/discuss their relative merits, I'm writing this to list them and their impact and/or lack thereof on the MASS EFFECT 3 game and beyond.

So, what are the three biggest impact decisions that have been announced in relatively quick succession in this late stage of the Mass Effect 3 development cyle?

1. Kinect support
2. Coop
3. Multiplayer

These are all features that are now IN THE GAME and will NOT be being removed. So, what impact do they have and is that impact positive, negative or neutral?

Kinect:

It can certainly be argued that the decision to add support to this is entirely optional and has no impact on the overall Mass Effect 3 experience.

I would argue that this is not necessarily the case. Certainly, nobody is putting a gun to my head and forcing me to use the Kinect functionality, but on the other hand, what INDIRECT impacts could it have had on Mass Effect 3 and what we can expect to see?

I would like to introduce the concept of <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost">Opportunity Cost</A> .

Basically, the concept of opportunity cost is, "What could you have done instead?" Let's say you have $20 to spend and you decide to go get a pizza. The opportunity cost is you could have gotten a steak instead with your $20.

With me, the issue with adding Kinect is what you COULD HAVE DONE instead. Now, maybe you don't even have the $20 to begin with if you don't add Kinect. Maybe Microsoft gave you that $20 on the express condition that you go and buy a ****y pizza like Little Caesors.

But then the opportunity cost becomes the extra time added where you STILL HAVE PEOPLE WORKING ON THE GAME when you could have released the game without Kinect and had those resources devoted towards the NEXT game.

In other words, Opportunity Cost applies regardless. There's ALWAYS a next best option you could have chosen.

To me, I don't give a damn about Kinect and therefore ANY next available option that involves either releasing the game sooner or beefing up the single player in some way is a benefit. So I'd view this addition to ME3 as a potential negative given that, by definition, it has replaced something that I would have preferred.

Coop Mode

This mode caught a lot of people by surprise because, frankly, Bioware had very stridently talked about not having any form of multiplayer. While they never specifically ruled it out, they definitely implied that such would not happen.

Some fans might be turned off by the revelation that while simultaneously developing such a thing they were saying it was doing everything to make people think that they weren't. Therefore, by announcing such a thing late in the development cycle, they may in effect by springing an unpleasant surprise on fans who don't want this mode in the hopes of minimizing the impact on sales.

The positive interpretation by including this mode is that it is being billed as entirely optional in that it IS possible to get the "optimal" ending without ever playing the coop missions. The negative interpretation is that it immunizes players from their choices in previous games by giving them extra ways to build galactic readiness by doing the "optional" coop and/or it raises the bar on how much of the single player sidequests an individual has to do if they don't want to do the coop.

It is entirely possible that the amount of galactic readiness is unchanged, but this once again runs into the "Opportunity Cost" concept.

What could have been done with the added resources? How much quicker could the game have been released? Did Mass Effect 3 gain more fans than they lost by adding this mode and announcing it so late in the development cycle?

My personal view would be that it will not add as many new players as the amount of players who get deeply turned off by a combination of feeling mislead and/or abandoned by Bioware including a feature that was not a part of what they associated with the Mass Effect 3 brand before.

Multiplayer

The key thing to ask yourself with the inclusion of this feature is whether or not it adds or detracts from the Mass Effect 3 experience or is a net neutral.

This answer might vary depending on the type of gamer that you are. For a gamer like me, this stongly detracts because it both makes me feel like Bioware is abandoning me as a gamer and because it makes the game feel less story focused. I would associate it to the difference between Bioshock 1 and Bioshock 2.

Adding MP to Bioshock 2 did not generate a great deal more playtime or buyers, and the MP piece was not very popular, but it did have a large impact on the storyline. Bioshock 2's storyline was noticeably weaker and less focused than #1. The main villain was not nearly as interesting and compelling and the character development not as robust.

Naturally, these are all simply my opinions, but I felt that it made for an overall weaker singleplayer game without the upside of bringing in individuals attracted to MP. Does Mass Effect 3 risk the same dilution of it's brand and core concept by spreading itself too thin?

Once again, Opportunity Cost is a relevant factor to consider. Nobody was forcing Bioware to devote resources to this item. Unless it brings in a great many players that it otherwise would not have gotten, which is a questionable value proposition based on many other shooter titles that are EXCLUSIVELY FOCUSED on MP, or unless it is setting the stage for a MUCH STONGER emphasis on MP in future games, then what was the point of including this feature?

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:31 .


#2
shepskisaac

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Wait a second. Mass Effect 3's multiplayer system IS the co-op. Am I not getting something here? Why are you listing it as separate from co-op?

#3
Siansonea

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TL;DR

So what's your point?

#4
DrunkenMonkey

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Siansonea II wrote...

TL;DR

So what's your point?


This is RPG forum. You read whole post like russian.

#5
BeefoTheBold

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IsaacShep wrote...

Wait a second. Mass Effect 3's multiplayer system IS the co-op. Am I not getting something here? Why are you listing it as separate from co-op?


Good question.

I don't view them as identical based on how they are constructed. What I'm calling "coop" is mission/storyline based that is a part of the campaign intended to be played with other individuals. It's basically, "Here's what  is happening elsewhere in the galaxy that you and your friends can play that will help Shepard."

The MP is one step beyond that. There's NO storyline whatsoever. It's basically MP combat that has no connection whatsoever to the actual ME lore, but you can still import into your campaign and can still impact GR.

In other words, it is NOT coop similar to how playing Gears of War MP is different than Gears of War CAMPAIGN coop.

These are two separate and distinct modes.

#6
shepskisaac

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

The MP is one step beyond that. There's NO storyline whatsoever. It's basically MP combat that has no connection whatsoever to the actual ME lore, but you can still import into your campaign and can still impact GR.

But there's no and won't be competetive MP mode in ME3 like that. All MP missions in ME3 are the co-op missions, tied to the story in the 'here's what's happening in other place' way like you said.

#7
naledgeborn

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Here we go again.

#8
BeefoTheBold

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IsaacShep wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

The MP is one step beyond that. There's NO storyline whatsoever. It's basically MP combat that has no connection whatsoever to the actual ME lore, but you can still import into your campaign and can still impact GR.

But there's no and won't be competetive MP mode in ME3 like that. All MP missions in ME3 are the co-op missions, tied to the story in the 'here's what's happening in other place' way like you said.


http://www.gamespot....g=topslot;img;2

This seems to describe something else.

Essentially, this describes a few folks facing waves of ememies with no real story or objectives behind it. It's, in essence, similar to the MP modes of Gears of War that have your objective as, "Kill X thousand Locust" or "Survive X minutes".

It isn't the same as a coop campaign mode that at least has you tied to some storyline objective. This is pure combat mode with buddies and then you can translate it over and have to do less stuff in the singleplayer to get the best ending.

It's essentially, "Kill 1000 geth with your buddies and you don't have to go on this sidequest."

#9
GMagnum

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STDD (same thread diff day)

smh sigh moving on

#10
Siansonea

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So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Cliff's Notes version of this thread is:

"Waah! I don't like Kinect!"
"Waah! I don't like co-op!"
"Waah! I don't like multiplayer!" (didn't we cover this?)

Does that about sum it up?

My advice: Play some other game, because BioWare's not going to discard those features because YOU don't like them. If they lose one irate customer (who would be impossible to please anyway, let's be real) and gain ten more, the math still works out in BioWare's favor.

#11
shepskisaac

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

It isn't the same as a coop campaign mode that at least has you tied to some storyline objective. This is pure combat mode with buddies and then you can translate it over and have to do less stuff in the singleplayer to get the best ending.

It is tied to the story, Admiral Hackett lead the co-op team and the missions tied to the SP story of Reapers (and their agents, like Cerberus) trying to take over. Anyway, the point is, this mode is the only MP mode in the game so why list it as two separate different modes?

#12
DrunkenMonkey

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

The MP is one step beyond that. There's NO storyline whatsoever. It's basically MP combat that has no connection whatsoever to the actual ME lore, but you can still import into your campaign and can still impact GR.

But there's no and won't be competetive MP mode in ME3 like that. All MP missions in ME3 are the co-op missions, tied to the story in the 'here's what's happening in other place' way like you said.


http://www.gamespot....g=topslot;img;2

This seems to describe something else.

Essentially, this describes a few folks facing waves of ememies with no real story or objectives behind it. It's, in essence, similar to the MP modes of Gears of War that have your objective as, "Kill X thousand Locust" or "Survive X minutes".

It isn't the same as a coop campaign mode that at least has you tied to some storyline objective. This is pure combat mode with buddies and then you can translate it over and have to do less stuff in the singleplayer to get the best ending.

It's essentially, "Kill 1000 geth with your buddies and you don't have to go on this sidequest."


That is what it seems to be. Now ME doesn't have the best combat and it is really a story centered game, I don't see how putting a only combat (the weakest point about ME) in the game will add anything of value.

#13
BeefoTheBold

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Siansonea II wrote...

Strawmaning what I said.


Thought it was TL;DR for you?

#14
Il Divo

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Agreed, for the most part. But couldn't co-op/multiplayer be placed under one heading, since they seem to be extensions of each other?

#15
BeefoTheBold

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IsaacShep wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

It isn't the same as a coop campaign mode that at least has you tied to some storyline objective. This is pure combat mode with buddies and then you can translate it over and have to do less stuff in the singleplayer to get the best ending.

It is tied to the story, Admiral Hackett lead the co-op team and the missions tied to the SP story of Reapers (and their agents, like Cerberus) trying to take over. Anyway, the point is, this mode is the only MP mode in the game so why list it as two separate different modes?


Because I don't think it is coop. Your definition of coop seems to be anything that has multiple players on the same side. In other words, any Gears of War MP mode that is not playing the campaign together but is still players vs. CP is still coop.

I disagree with that definition.

To me, coop is playing campaign type missions together. MP is simply combat with other players involved. (Either for or against.)

So I view this new announcement/addition as MP and not simply an extension of the previously announced Coop.

And so do sites like GS. (See my earlier link.)

#16
BeefoTheBold

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Il Divo wrote...

Agreed, for the most part. But couldn't co-op/multiplayer be placed under one heading, since they seem to be extensions of each other?


It's a fine distinction, but I don't consider them the same. (See my response to IsaacShep)

#17
shepskisaac

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

So I view this new announcement/addition as MP and not simply an extension of the previously announced Coop.

But this is the same thing. It doesn't matter if it's not what you initially thought it would be. The point is, there's no 2 different modes/features being announced by BioWare. There's 1 multiplayer mode in this game, it doesn't matter how you call it. Listing two things doesn't make any sense.

#18
BeefoTheBold

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Siansonea II wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Strawmaning what I said.


Thought it was TL;DR for you?


"Strawman", the omnigel of rebuttals. You still need to get glad in the same pants you got mad in, Sport. Or, just take your ball and go home. Somebody else will buy your copy of the game.


I...don't know what "get glad in the same pants you got mad in" means, but it sounds kind of like a perv watching porno by himself, which is amusing enough that I'm going to let it pass.

But the second part of your argument is extremely weak.

There are a finite amount of people who will buy any given game. Developers make decisions based largely on trying to get the largest amount of people to buy their game.

When someone says, "That sounds bad, I'm not going to buy it" it does NOT automatically mean that someone else snatches up the unused copy. It certainly COULD happen that way, but simply WISHING REALLY HARD doesn't mean that it happens like that.

When people did not like Dragon Age 2, sales dried up QUICKLY after the initial sales based on DAO dried up and negative word of mouth spread.

Simply telling someone, "Get over it or someone else will buy your copy" is an asinine argument.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:53 .


#19
BeefoTheBold

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IsaacShep wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

So I view this new announcement/addition as MP and not simply an extension of the previously announced Coop.

But this is the same thing. It doesn't matter if it's not what you initially thought it would be. The point is, there's no 2 different modes/features being announced by BioWare. There's 1 multiplayer mode in this game, it doesn't matter how you call it. Listing two things doesn't make any sense.


If Bioware considered them identical, there wouldn't have been two separate announcements.

These are two distinct modes, a coop mode intended to supplement the main campaign, and a MP combat focused mode intended to have nothing at all to do with the campaign but encourage people combating waves of bad guys together.

#20
slimgrin

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Am I interested in Kinect? Hell no. Am I interested in co-op? Maybe. The fact is we can't judge until we play the game. Like many here, I've played ME1 and ME2 numerous times. I will know if ME3 isn't up to snuff. Everyone will. Until then, this is pointless speculation.

Modifié par slimgrin, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:54 .


#21
Fortlowe

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I like the inclusion of co-op if for no other reason, than that it give me an excuse to cut up with some fellow BSNer on a platform we all know and love. Would have loved for it to be more than just horde mode, but hey....

#22
DrunkenMonkey

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Modifié par DrunkenMonkey, 28 octobre 2011 - 01:04 .


#23
shepskisaac

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BeefoTheBold wrote...

If Bioware considered them identical, there wouldn't have been two separate announcements.

They didn't, this is simply more information being released on the already made announcement

BeefoTheBold wrote...

These are two distinct modes, a coop mode intended to supplement the main campaign, and a MP combat focused mode intended to have nothing at all to do with the campaign but encourage people combating waves of bad guys together.

No, there are not. No 2 modes exists. All the MP levels anyone (either BioWare or press) talked about thus far are the same thing. They are all part of the same system, they have the same rules & mechanics. All missions are tied to the SP game. The co-op missions intented to supplement the main campaign ARE the missions with people fighting waves of bad guys together. It's been like that from the beginning.

#24
LegionMan

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 My question is thus:  Bioware, y u no bring back overheating?

#25
Anacronian Stryx

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So did the Op actually gather any information about the subject he was about to complain about or did he just ...*re-reads*

Never mind.