280 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Gatt9 wrote...

1.  The Project Lead and the team have a vision they bring to fruition,  comprimising only when some facet fails the "Fun" test.  Baldur's Gate 2,  KotOR,  anything from Blizzard,  The Sims,  are all good examples.

Blizzard and The Sims aren't trying to make piles of money and are just in it for the fun?

Oh, please.

Look.  The devs are obviously passionate about their product.  The half-assed, tacked-on-for-dollars stuff will probably be lame, but the stuff that matters will still be good.  You know, the story?  The universe?  Characters?  Single-player combat and customization?  I sure as hell didn't think ME2 was any worse than ME1 in that regard.  It made some mistakes that ME1 didn't (oversimplified in some areas, but I think that's more of an overreaction to ME1's criticisms than anything else), but it made up for it in improvement in other areas.

[Terror_K]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Even if there were a doen situations where the dialogue options where:

Paragon: I'll stop you.
Neutral: I'll stop you.
Renegade: I'll stop you.

?

I personally though that ME1 only felt longer because of those tedious Mako driving missions.

While ME2 kept bringing in surprises, even through DLCs.

I think ME2 took it too far though, by eliminating dialogue choices entirely and just having Shepard speak automatically for you. The way you can't often defy Cerberus as much as you should is a classic example of this. I remember them saying that that was the method they were using to combat the complaint from ME1 about what you're talking about too.

I think the illusion of choice is still better than none, but they should have found a balance by having the dialogue options still available, but still leading to actually different responses from Shepard, even if it still didn't actually change anything in the game by setting a tag or changing where the dialogue went. I'd know I'd have been a lot happier if I just got to put down TIM and Cerberus a lot more even if I still had to work with them anyway and the scene played out essentially the same in the end.

[BeefoTheBold]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Alright, I deserved the flogging over writing another mean post and then putting an apology at the end, but I do have an explanation for that.

I am at work, I wrote that leviathan post and didn't neccesarily want to throw it all away because I wouldn't really have time to write another at that length.

So here again, Apology.  Bad mood, no nasty involved this time, and no retorts.  Truce?

To your last point I will say that we were discussing story, not RPG.  Both are not the same thing.  I can pick up a book, watch a movie both have good stories and neither are RPGs.

Is the story good, no, I will agree, it is not.  Is it a story?  Yes.

Absolutely truce.

I hold no grudges, particularly when I was more than a little bit of a **** towards you on my end. My apology as well. Not an excuse, but an explanation that I'm a little grumpy about this whole situation. I'm normally a bit nicer about stuff. Promise.

To your point: You're presenting the Dark Souls argument. In essence, it IS possible to have a GOOD game with a really lame storyline. (Like Dark Souls.)

Which I guess I do concede that point.

The point I would make is that you play different games with different expectations, and whether or not a game meets those expectations impacts what you think of the game. I don't play NCAA Football expecting a gripping storyline. i don't BUY it for that reason.

The issue lies in that disconnect. I've bought games from Bioware for, literally, decades because I want a good storyline. Several recent releases have failed me in that regard. I don't have the same benefit of the doubt that I used to have and thus, I am a lot harsher towards their expirmenting than I otherwise would be.

Fair?

[Dark_Caduceus]

Ricinator wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

4 without skipping scenes and you had enough varity in the choices? bull... 4 ME1 playthroughs, even though it has a set direction, can feel completly different everytime.

Even if there were a doen situations where the dialogue options where:

Paragon: I'll stop you.
Neutral: I'll stop you.
Renegade: I'll stop you.

?

I personally though that ME1 only felt longer because of those tedious Mako driving missions.

While ME2 kept bringing in surprises, even through DLCs.

you quote me and no where i say "mako" in my post...
*cracks neck*

there were a lot of those examples in ME2 of those types of dialogue, Plus YOUR ENTIRE TEAM FEELS EXACTLY THE SAME FOR EITHER DECSION OF THE BASE.

Ok you didn't like the mako, personally i didn't find it bad after i figured out driving 88 degrees diagnal will get you somewhere, over 89 straight up. DLC for ME2 didn't even bring back any squadmembers for voice acting. your lucky if they said a word the whole time even if it was a copy paste moving to cover.

honestly im having a hard time argueing with you because your quoting me with abo****ely no base for my arguement.

I think we all acknowledge that the MAKO was tedious, but it DID add a sesnse of scale to the game unseen in ME2. It was an artificial grandess of course, like ME2 on insanity(and ME1) had an artificial sense of challenge, they weren't exercises in skill though, only tedium=> add more health and damage, and be done with it.

[Someone With Mass]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

Who were you replying to?

Anyone that feels targeted.

[Ricinator]

Modifié par Ricinator, 28 octobre 2011 - 04:12 .

[AdmiralCheez]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

In related news, Nintendo just announced they lost close to a billion dollars. Might have something to do with their casual/motion control stuff that was initially a really big rage that everyone hopped on board with and now nobody gives a ****.

Excellent.  Now they will either go under or shape the hell up.

For me, the game that I made the mistake of preordering was DA2. I'm one step ahead of where you are I think.

(And, BTW, being married to a female gamer I can understand the desire to not broadcast the fact. Have seen the results.)

Would you believe I pre-ordered DA2 as well, but returned it in a panic when the complaints started surfacing?  Would you believe I actually regret it after seeing how much fun my friends are having?

[C9316]

jreezy wrote...

Just arrived and I must ask OP: Why is co-op and multiplayer seperate? Co-op should just be under multiplayer, not it's own thing.

I think the first two pages cover this subject....

[spirosz]

When's the 4th similar thread popping up?

[Ricinator]

spiros9110 wrote...

When's the 4th similar thread popping up?

why is jack dead in all my games?

[spirosz]

Ricinator wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

When's the 4th similar thread popping up?

why is jack dead in all my games?

You don't like her. Simple.  
Didn't answer my question though. 

[onelifecrisis]

I haven't read the thread. I'm just going to reply to Beef.

1. Specifically regarding Kinect
IIRC all they've done with Kinect is voice control. Seriously, the cost of implementation for such a thing is miniscule. It's so pathetic that I think they have a nerve trying to pass it off as a real feature. The ME3 Menu will have taken considerably longer to develop than this Kinect support.

2. Regarding Opportunity Cost
We don't know the details of how BW are funded. It may well be the case that EA provided them with additional cash to cover the additional features, in which case the Opportunity Cost is zero (assuming EA would not have been willing to provide the same cash for other features).

[BeefoTheBold]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

In related news, Nintendo just announced they lost close to a billion dollars. Might have something to do with their casual/motion control stuff that was initially a really big rage that everyone hopped on board with and now nobody gives a ****.

Excellent.  Now they will either go under or shape the hell up.

For me, the game that I made the mistake of preordering was DA2. I'm one step ahead of where you are I think.

(And, BTW, being married to a female gamer I can understand the desire to not broadcast the fact. Have seen the results.)

Would you believe I pre-ordered DA2 as well, but returned it in a panic when the complaints started surfacing?  Would you believe I actually regret it after seeing how much fun my friends are having?

Would you believe that I'm a volunteer moderator on a gaming website who got a free copy of the Signature Edition PS3 version after preordering the special edition PC version new as special recognition for doing my moderator job well?

I've never bothered opening the console version of my game and you're welcome to it if you like. Admittedly, that would mean you'd have to PM me your address so I can ship it to you, As a bonus I'll send you a link to my review of the game. I rated it a 7.5 out of 10 overall. Not terrible unless you compare it to Bioware's usual norm.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 28 octobre 2011 - 04:18 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

If you'd ACTUALLY read up, you'd see me answering that very question. Exactly the same question in fact.

Once more, try again.

It was less a matter of 'reading up' and more a matter of 'reading to the left'. I'd have given up if it was any deeper than page 6.

Regardless, it is not much of a reason. The resources have been committed and they are on this road until release whether anyone likes it or not. The only way they're changing their minds is on the feedback they get after release.

Essays aren't going to do anything now, or then, the test will come when people actually experience the product - as it should be. If it turns out to be so terrible, they'll get their heat. That's one thing that can be counted on.

[Someone With Mass]

Ricinator wrote...

you quote me and no where i say "mako" in my post...
*cracks neck*

there were a lot of those examples in ME2 of those types of dialogue, Plus YOUR ENTIRE TEAM FEELS EXACTLY THE SAME FOR EITHER DECSION OF THE BASE.

Ok you didn't like the mako, personally i didn't find it bad after i figured out driving 88 degrees diagnal will get you somewhere, over 89 straight up. DLC for ME2 didn't even bring back any squadmembers for voice acting. your lucky if they said a word the whole time even if it was a copy paste moving to cover.

honestly im having a hard time argueing with you because your quoting me with abo****ely no base for my arguement.

Here's something cute about ME1. Each squadmate had both sides of the conversation recorded.

Oh, and unless I missed something, ME1 didn't bring anyone back for its DLCs either.

I also never saw the appeal of driving over the same wasteland which sometimes has a different color pallet with the Mako, which also apparently had the physics of a beach ball.


The only reason I can't fully judge ME3's dialogues is because I have barely seen any. Which I'm grateful for, because I'll avoid spoilers that way.

ME3 also seems to do almost everything that ME1 did, but a lot better. The weapon modifications actually have more visuals this time, the powers for each class can be customized towards the player's preference and if there are no vehicle missions, then I won't cry.

I'm not sure about the economy in ME3, when it comes to selling and buying stuff, but if it works better than randomizing after each mission, then I'm good.

[Sedman211]

I'm assuming the decision to include multiplayer in ME3 wasn't entirely Bioware's. Maybe some money deals were made, and I think Dead Space 2 had a similar outcome. So even if people don't like Bioware's idea for MP, some don't understand how development works. Is this agreeable?

[BeefoTheBold]

Sedman211 wrote...

I'm assuming the decision to include multiplayer in ME3 wasn't entirely Bioware's. Maybe some money deals were made, and I think Dead Space 2 had a similar outcome. So even if people don't like Bioware's idea for MP, some don't understand how development works. Is this agreeable?

To a point. I definitely don't understand how development works.

But I also don't understand at all what benefit MP was to Dead Space 2.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ricinator wrote...

you quote me and no where i say "mako" in my post...
*cracks neck*

there were a lot of those examples in ME2 of those types of dialogue, Plus YOUR ENTIRE TEAM FEELS EXACTLY THE SAME FOR EITHER DECSION OF THE BASE.

Ok you didn't like the mako, personally i didn't find it bad after i figured out driving 88 degrees diagnal will get you somewhere, over 89 straight up. DLC for ME2 didn't even bring back any squadmembers for voice acting. your lucky if they said a word the whole time even if it was a copy paste moving to cover.

honestly im having a hard time argueing with you because your quoting me with abo****ely no base for my arguement.

Here's something cute about ME1. Each squadmate had both sides of the conversation recorded.

Oh, and unless I missed something, ME1 didn't bring anyone back for its DLCs either.

I also never saw the appeal of driving over the same wasteland which sometimes has a different color pallet with the Mako, which also apparently had the physics of a beach ball.


The only reason I can't fully judge ME3's dialogues is because I have barely seen any. Which I'm grateful for, because I'll avoid spoilers that way.

ME3 also seems to do almost everything that ME1 did, but a lot better. The weapon modifications actually have more visuals this time, the powers for each class can be customized towards the player's preference and if there are no vehicle missions, then I won't cry.

I'm not sure about the economy in ME3, when it comes to selling and buying stuff, but if it works better than randomizing after each mission, then I'm good.

I didn't like the Mako after the fourth or fifth mission, but  think you'd agree that it made the unvierse feel bigger, thought artificially so. I don't know why they decided to replace it with the equally bad Firewalker instead of fixing it. Why couldn't they just make the MAKO missions more diverse and interesting, or keep the weapon/armor system but make the items more distinct, hell, Diablo I did it and that game is over a decade old.

[Sedman211]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Sedman211 wrote...

I'm assuming the decision to include multiplayer in ME3 wasn't entirely Bioware's. Maybe some money deals were made, and I think Dead Space 2 had a similar outcome. So even if people don't like Bioware's idea for MP, some don't understand how development works. Is this agreeable?

To a point. I definitely don't understand how development works.

But I also don't understand at all what benefit MP was to Dead Space 2.

That's what I'm getting at. Maybe multiplayer had to be done.

[BeefoTheBold]

Sedman211 wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Sedman211 wrote...

I'm assuming the decision to include multiplayer in ME3 wasn't entirely Bioware's. Maybe some money deals were made, and I think Dead Space 2 had a similar outcome. So even if people don't like Bioware's idea for MP, some don't understand how development works. Is this agreeable?

To a point. I definitely don't understand how development works.

But I also don't understand at all what benefit MP was to Dead Space 2.

That's what I'm getting at. Maybe multiplayer had to be done.

Okay...I'm open to the thought process.

But I'm not seeing how. To my mind, your comparison proves the opposite. Dead Space 2 had a lame multiplayer that nobody cared about and nobody played after Dead Space 1 was one of the most immersive and interesting shooter titles with one of the more innovative mechanics (limb dismemberment effects) in recent memory.

Essentially, I would have thought that the experience from DS2 would have had the opposite lesson: Every game does NOT need a MP.

[Dark_Caduceus]

I dunno why everyone is so torn up about multiplayer, I think it's a good idea... so long as it doesn't detract from SP, and I see no reason for it to.

[AdmiralCheez]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Would you believe that I'm a volunteer moderator on a gaming website who got a free copy of the Signature Edition PS3 version after preordering the special edition PC version new as special recognition for doing my moderator job well?

I've never bothered opening the console version of my game and you're welcome to it if you like. Admittedly, that would mean you'd have to PM me your address so I can ship it to you, As a bonus I'll send you a link to my review of the game. I rated it a 7.5 out of 10 overall. Not terrible unless you compare it to Bioware's usual norm.

Would you believe my gaming platform of choice is a laptop that's rapidly becoming obsolete?

Haha, seriously though, I just felt stupid for running back and forth between stores just to save thirty bucks.  Yeah, DA2 wasn't Bioware quality, but I think they've honestly learned from that mistake.  The Mass Effect team is good--just give them time and enough freedom to at least follow their own game plan.  I'm not dumb enough to think ME3 is going to be a perfect package (I'd need at least an hour to tell you about all the things I hated about ME2 and just as long for ME1), but I don't share your sentiment that it won't be worth my money.  And even when the game releases, our personal tastes will still lead to disagreement.

Ultimately, I think all the crap the suits are pulling is stupid, but I don't think it will ruin the game.

Unless I can't play offline.  In which case I will go on a murderous rampage, because that would be the THIRD time that crap has happened to me.  God damn it, Valve and Blizzard!