70 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Recently over in the SWTOR Forums, I began to discuss the various aspects of PvP. While I have not played in a MMO before, based on some old research I did, I found that Griefing was seemingly the largest problem with MMO's; maybe in most multi-player games. After discussions there, I posted into the Suggestion thread on the subject, and apparently some of the crowd was not fond of my ideas.

Thought I would share here, as this is a larger crowd, and may have more experience in the genre than myself. But pls let us try and keep it civil; been accused of Trolling there already. Thanks!


Ganking:

It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level.

Recommended action: no rewards; unchallenging, but legit.

Griefing:

1. Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game.

2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game.

3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics.

Recommended actions: forced loss of character, and re-roll; Ban for multiple offenses, major offenses, etc at Official discretion.

*Definitions from Urban Dictionary*

Modifié par Elhanan, 28 octobre 2011 - 05:52 .

[bussinrounds]

              And people pay per month to have this done to them ?



  Where do i sign up ?


            

[RPGamer13]

Yeah, that's why I hate to play in MMOs where there's no separation of PvP and PvE.

PvP is great if it's arena style stuff or there's separate servers for it. But not when I'm trying to play cooperatively and don't want someone to attack me at random.

[Elhanan]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Yeah, that's why I hate to play in MMOs where there's no separation of PvP and PvE.

PvP is great if it's arena style stuff or there's separate servers for it. But not when I'm trying to play cooperatively and don't want someone to attack me at random.

Thing is, I do play PvE. I simply hate the notion that this problem has been ignored for so long by other games, and am trying to get Griefing as a banned offense over at SWTOR before it launches.

SWTOR also has RP; perhaps RP-PvP and RP-PvE servers, too.

PvP has it's place for many, and if the hammer drops on Griefers, I may take a look at some class builds on that side of the park.

[Chromie]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Yeah, that's why I hate to play in MMOs where there's no separation of PvP and PvE.

PvP is great if it's arena style stuff or there's separate servers for it. But not when I'm trying to play cooperatively and don't want someone to attack me at random.

Wait what? Just don't play on a PvP server. Really that's all you have to do. I play usually Pve servers only because I'm not one for Pvp but your just asking to be ganked if your on a PvE server if your flagged. There is a seperation of Pve and Pvp not just in servers but there are battlegrounds in most MMOs or some place for dedicated pvp so I don't really understand were your coming from.

Elhanan wrote...
Thing is, I do play PvE. I simply hate the notion that this problem has been ignored for so long by other games, and am trying to get Griefing as a banned offense over at SWTOR before it launches.

SWTOR also has RP; perhaps RP-PvP and RP-PvE servers, too.

PvP has it's place for many, and if the hammer drops on Griefers, I may take a look at some class builds on that side of the park.

Ah Elhanan...guess you decided your gonna give The Old Republic a try? Well there are seperate servers for your playstyle like I said I play on PvE servers were it's only my friends and I against the A.I not people.

bussinrounds wrote...

And people pay per month to have this done to them ?
Where do i sign up ?

Seriously just google Eve Online pvp. It's crazy and because it's all on one server it sets that MMO apart from anything else out. People are you know actual space pirates and it's awesome the stuff people come up with ofcourse it may ****** you off but you have to know what to expect when playing an MMO after all it's not a single player game world.

Modifié par Ringo12, 28 octobre 2011 - 07:19 .

[Elhanan]

Ringo12 wrote...

Ah Elhanan...guess you decided your gonna give The Old Republic a try? Well there are seperate servers for your playstyle like I said I play on PvE servers were it's only my friends and I against the A.I not people.

I was able to use a Gift Certicate for the pre-order, and am asking for a 6 month sub from the family for Christmas. The stories have been solid, and have been surprised enough in testing to change my initial choices. Downside is not being able to see if I could have played Skyrim. As with the Highlander, there can be only one.

I am not much of a fan of the MMO part, but the RPG is a solid win for me.

[Cyberarmy]

You dont want Ganking or Griefing on your server?

The solution is too simple..
Roll on a PVE server...

[marshalleck]

Elhanan wrote...

Griefing:

1. Purposefully shooting or otherwise sabotaging your teammates in an online game.

2. In online gaming where one repeatedly killing the same individual or individuals over and over again, or camping their corpse to prevent them from retrieving it, or otherwise performing actions in a game to prevent the player from enjoying the game.

3. In online gaming, someone who takes pleasure in creating grief for an opponent via various "cheap" tactics.

Recommended actions: forced loss of character, and re-roll; Ban for multiple offenses, major offenses, etc at Official discretion.

*Definitions from Urban Dictionary*

Griefing is subjective. I'd be pissed if I lost my character just because I was repeatedly killing someone who was wandering into a PVP area, or going around the world flagged for PVP.

And corpse-camping isn't griefing. It's a legitimate tactic of area denial to your enemies. Most games these days have an option once your character has been incapacitated to respawn safely back in town with all your inventory and money intact, so this is rarely an issue unless the recently deceased chooses to make it such, by refusing to leave their corpse and go back to town.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:46 .

[Mercannis]

As has been already said just roll on a PvE server or pure RP server. By your definition during my playtime on WoW i was a griefer. I used to go to hot farming spots and kill people over and over to rack up honor points. This was before cross server so it was the only way to stay ahead of the competiton for server 1-3 spots at end of the week. I had to listen to lvl 1 whiners constantly cause i was "ruining their game", when in reality i was merely slowing their gold farming in Winterspring a little.

Do yourself a favour and dont roll on a PvP server.

[Elhanan]

marshalleck wrote...

Griefing is subjective. I'd be pissed if I lost my character just because I was repeatedly killing someone who was wandering into a PVP area, or going around the world flagged for PVP.

And corpse-camping isn't griefing. It's a legitimate tactic of area denial to your enemies. Most games these days have an option once your character has been incapacitated to respawn safely back in town with all your inventory and money intact, so this is rarely an issue unless the recently deceased chooses to make it such, by refusing to leave their corpse and go back to town.

Unfortunately, this seems to be correct in that the definition is subjective; reason I posted the above as a standard for this discussion. I am encouraging Bioware to have some clear rules posted by launch. Until then, the Terms of Service from EA may allow some victim support.

But generally, the point that Griefing is the act of one Player causing misery to another is the main theme. And to be clear, while I choose to play PvE, I should not have to in order to avoid such a Player.

Griefing has no part on any server, or in the game.

If you Gank another Player, you shouldn't be Reported; simply not receive any rewards for doing so. If someone issues a report, it should be investegated by a GM, and the matter should be resolved fairly quickly. I also support discipline for false reports.

Hopefully SWTOR already has has enough preventive measures in place to stop corpse camping altogether. There are options to be Raised on site after a short wait, or one can be Evacuated to a nearby Med Facility; no loss of XP or items for either choice.

But what may be a 'legit' tactic to some' may still equate as Griefing to others. If someone camps my Raise area and keeps killing me, forcing me to leave a quest or mission area, this is Griefing to me, and will be reported. I will allow the GM to sort the mess. To do so appears to exploit OOG knowlege that I have few options, and certainly violates my rights to enjoy playing the game.

Modifié par Elhanan, 28 octobre 2011 - 12:59 .

[Nameless one7]

Griefers can be a good thing, they make games more exciting because you never know when your going to die. You have to be on your toes all the time and I always get an adrenaline rush when I play games where PVP is everywhere.

[Nerdage]

Well in TOR if you res at your corpse you have about 12 seconds invisibility / immunity, don't you? I'd think that's enough to avoid most campers.

I'm hopeless at pvp, but I prefer to play on a pvp server, I like the sense of danger in contested zones. Sure, being killed while I'm minding my own business is annoying, but worst case scenario I just get a guildie to come help or, if it keeps happening, I just relog to my main and camp them back. It's all part of the fun to me.

[Elhanan]

Nameless one7 wrote...

Griefers can be a good thing, they make games more exciting because you never know when your going to die. You have to be on your toes all the time and I always get an adrenaline rush when I play games where PVP is everywhere.

That should be the premise of PvP. Griefing is about making others miserable; giving them grief.

Kill me once; shame on me. Kill me again and again; Reported, and shame on you.

[Elhanan]

nerdage wrote...

Well in TOR if you res at your corpse you have about 12 seconds invisibility / immunity, don't you? I'd think that's enough to avoid most campers.

I'm hopeless at pvp, but I prefer to play on a pvp server, I like the sense of danger in contested zones. Sure, being killed while I'm minding my own business is annoying, but worst case scenario I just get a guildie to come help or, if it keeps happening, I just relog to my main and camp them back. It's all part of the fun to me.

12 seconds of safety may or may not be enough time to escape an area being camped; not wanting to bet my enjoyment on it.

I also like thrills, but until Griefers are minimal, I shall remain on PvE.

[chunkyman]

I love griefing in Black Ops! I get people homophobic twelve year olds SCREAMING at me when I kill them and take their care packages in hardcore mode.

Modifié par chunkyman, 28 octobre 2011 - 02:07 .

[Nameless one7]

Killing someone at their corpse over and over is a cruel thing to do, but it does give you an archenemy who you will want to hunt with your friends in your spare time.

[RPGamer13]

So, wait, is all servers on The Old Republic going to be a mix of both?

Ringo12 wrote...

RPGamer13 wrote...

Yeah, that's why I hate to play in MMOs where there's no separation of PvP and PvE.

PvP is great if it's arena style stuff or there's separate servers for it. But not when I'm trying to play cooperatively and don't want someone to attack me at random.

Wait what? Just don't play on a PvP server. Really that's all you have to do. I play usually Pve servers only because I'm not one for Pvp but your just asking to be ganked if your on a PvE server if your flagged. There is a seperation of Pve and Pvp not just in servers but there are battlegrounds in most MMOs or some place for dedicated pvp so I don't really understand were your coming from.

Right.  But I thought there were games that didn't separate that.  At least, that was the impression I got before I played FFXI, of which I checked into it before deciding to buy it.

I played FFXI for a year 3 months after it was released, but there was no PvE at first then when it was implemented, it was events and separated from the rest of the gameplay.  

Ringo12 wrote...

Seriously just google Eve Online pvp. It's crazy and because it's all on one server it sets that MMO apart from anything else out. People are you know actual space pirates and it's awesome the stuff people come up with ofcourse it may ****** you off but you have to know what to expect when playing an MMO after all it's not a single player game world.

Oh, there's one. That's what I'm talking about.  I wouldn't be able to play an MMO like that, it'd get too frustrating.  I was going to check out the trial I have, but maybe not now. 

Thanks for the heads up.

Modifié par RPGamer13, 28 octobre 2011 - 02:59 .

[Elhanan]

Nameless one7 wrote...

Killing someone at their corpse over and over is a cruel thing to do, but it does give you an archenemy who you will want to hunt with your friends in your spare time.

Don't need Griefing for that. Ask half your friends to join opposing factions. Find a new friend that likes playing on the other side. Look for some NPC is your storyline that will grant great satisfaction to decimate. Etc.

Don't even require gaming. Ask Ringo and some other Loghain loving posters about me!

[Nameless one7]

Elhanan wrote...

Nameless one7 wrote...

Killing someone at their corpse over and over is a cruel thing to do, but it does give you an archenemy who you will want to hunt with your friends in your spare time.

Don't need Griefing for that. Ask half your friends to join opposing factions. Find a new friend that likes playing on the other side. Look for some NPC is your storyline that will grant great satisfaction to decimate. Etc.

Don't even require gaming. Ask Ringo and some other Loghain loving posters about me!

That's not a real archenemy, a real archenemy is one who you will do anything to destroy, hence a griefer.

[Homebound]

*Has 'Nam-like MMO flashbacks*

[SOLID_EVEREST]

I like how Guild Wars does PvP (only online game I've ever played so take my opinion lightly). They have the whole arena thing so that players can't mess with your PVE type thing. Anyways, don't really care to pay per month for an MMO. I'll go back to Guild Wars before I shell out the bucks. Never had either griefing thing happen to me before, though, but I don't think people should get banned over it.

[Elhanan]

Here is a little more from the Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer

Why these virtual vandals have been allowed to continue to play is beyond sad. My plan is to Report and send Screenies if possible, and encourage others to do the same.

[ErichHartmann]

Griefers, in my experience, don't last long when ignored. All they seem to care about is seeking attention. And ganking is a part of PvP. I flew solo on Warcraft PvP servers and being attacked by 2 or more players was an adrenaline rush. I won the majority of fights too.

[Elhanan]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Griefers, in my experience, don't last long when ignored. All they seem to care about is seeking attention. And ganking is a part of PvP. I flew solo on Warcraft PvP servers and being attacked by 2 or more players was an adrenaline rush. I won the majority of fights too.

Unfortunately. ignoring them apparently means logging and eating a meal or some such and waiting for them to depart. When NOT playing the game is the advisable tactic for playing any part of the game, something needs to change.

Personally, I contend they have been ignored far too long, and let Bioware put the hammer down on them early and often. IMO.

[Chromie]

Elhanan wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Griefers, in my experience, don't last long when ignored. All they seem to care about is seeking attention. And ganking is a part of PvP. I flew solo on Warcraft PvP servers and being attacked by 2 or more players was an adrenaline rush. I won the majority of fights too.

Unfortunately. ignoring them apparently means logging and eating a meal or some such and waiting for them to depart. When NOT playing the game is the advisable tactic for playing any part of the game, something needs to change.

Personally, I contend they have been ignored far too long, and let Bioware put the hammer down on them early and often. IMO.

It wouldn't work. It would be far too common I assume to ban people over something so trivial. I've seen some of your post on TOR forums and well people are accusing you of trolling but I wonder why someone just can't play on a PvE server? That would prevent almost all griefing ofcourse you wouldn't be ganked but griefing would be all but eliminated on a PvE server.