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"Multiplayer is very optional'


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#351
Iakus

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Thompson family wrote...

I'll repeat:

We don't understand because it has been clearly stated by BioWare (See Bioware TV or any of numerous news articles on the subject) that the OPTIONS ARE to

a.) Play multiplayer, or
b.) Do side missions

if you want to get the "best" ending.

So you don't want to play multiplayer to get the "best" ending. OK. You do whatever side missions are required. How is this worse (or even different) than ME2, where you have to complete all the recuitment missions and do all the loyalty missions to get the "best" ending?


Because those were not "side missions.  Side missions in ME2 were N7 missions, finding lost lockets, talking to groundskeepers about fish, and the like.  

In ME1, side missions were the UNC  missions, scanning keepers, locating Prothean data disks, and the like.

Now I like doing side missions as much as anyone.  More than many, I think.  But I do not relish the idea that getting the optimal ending without resorting to multiplayer is going to require me to locate every sinbgle  one of whatever ME3's equivalent of the League of One medallions.  Or scanning every single planet in the galaxy to see if there's some Blood Pack mercs to murder.

#352
111987

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iakus wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

I'll repeat:

We don't understand because it has been clearly stated by BioWare (See Bioware TV or any of numerous news articles on the subject) that the OPTIONS ARE to

a.) Play multiplayer, or
b.) Do side missions

if you want to get the "best" ending.

So you don't want to play multiplayer to get the "best" ending. OK. You do whatever side missions are required. How is this worse (or even different) than ME2, where you have to complete all the recuitment missions and do all the loyalty missions to get the "best" ending?


Because those were not "side missions.  Side missions in ME2 were N7 missions, finding lost lockets, talking to groundskeepers about fish, and the like.  

In ME1, side missions were the UNC  missions, scanning keepers, locating Prothean data disks, and the like.

Now I like doing side missions as much as anyone.  More than many, I think.  But I do not relish the idea that getting the optimal ending without resorting to multiplayer is going to require me to locate every sinbgle  one of whatever ME3's equivalent of the League of One medallions.  Or scanning every single planet in the galaxy to see if there's some Blood Pack mercs to murder.


The ME3 sidequests aren't equivalent to fetch quests, or hunting down random mercs. They are said to be tied into the war against the Reapers.

They are more like optional missions, like the loyalty missions, than pure sidequests.

Furthermore, we don't know if it takes the completion of every side quest is needed to get 100% galactic readiness.

#353
Thompson family

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iakus wrote...

Because those were not "side missions.  Side missions in ME2 were N7 missions, finding lost lockets, talking to groundskeepers about fish, and the like.  

In ME1, side missions were the UNC  missions, scanning keepers, locating Prothean data disks, and the like.

Now I like doing side missions as much as anyone.  More than many, I think.  But I do not relish the idea that getting the optimal ending without resorting to multiplayer is going to require me to locate every sinbgle  one of whatever ME3's equivalent of the League of One medallions.  Or scanning every single planet in the galaxy to see if there's some Blood Pack mercs to murder.


There's a straight answer to my question. Thank you, iakus.

While your concern is logical, I don't think we're going to be looking for many lockets during a Reaper invasion. However, we might be looking for someone's lost child.

Surely missions that award "readiness points" won't include trivial pursuits like looking for lockets. I don't think we'll have to do a lot of irrelevant quests to get these points. We may have to play some to find out whether they award points or not. I hope not.

In a best-case scenario, some successful SP missions will make some MP missions unnecessary, and vice-versa.

===========

Anyway, I guess it's back to the videos to hear what was actually said in the interviews.

Modifié par Thompson family, 29 octobre 2011 - 03:52 .


#354
Taritu

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Bioware lost the "benefit of the doubt card" when they released DA2.

Iakus has my concern. It is very easy to read what Bioware has said as "it will be easier to get max readiness if you play co-op".

We'll see. It's ME3, I'm buying it regardless because I'm invested in Shepard's story. How good it is will determine whether I buy other Bioware games are full price, or wait till they're bargain-binned.

#355
Thompson family

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Went back to the video of the BioWare announcement of multiplayer on BioWare TV. Casey Hudson interview, starting at 2:08:

"These places that Commander Shepard is trying to secure across the galaxy as part of your war assets on the single-player side, you're trying to control those on the multi-player side and the better you do the more you control, the better your single player ending will be."

It could be as simple as this: Do you want to take control of some base, wipe out a Reaper or something as Commander Shepard leading two squadmates, or do you want to do it with up to four players -- or even by yourself -- in MP?

Either way, the "asset" is secured for game purposes.

===========
(edited P.S.)

On a less-speculative tack, I think it should be clear in each mission whether something will be a "war asset" or not. A lost locket or even a missing child will not be. A defended base or Krogan "princess" will clearly be.

Modifié par Thompson family, 29 octobre 2011 - 03:42 .


#356
vader da slayer

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dreman9999 wrote...

Liec wrote...

 I find it funny that they're advertising it saying "you don't have to play this!".  :wizard:

Because they know their fans......Most  of them hate MP.<_<


nice sweeping generallization. everyone I know that is a fan of bioware games also plays Halo, CoD, and BF games as well. and aside from Halo CE and Halo 3 none of those have a particularly amazing sp.....I think its funny that people think that just because someone plays RPGs that they must not like mulitplayer games.

#357
Kaiser Shepard

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I really don't understand why they went for the "multiplayer affects the campaign" approach; to me, that seems like the one obvious thing they could have done to make people complain about the inclusion of it.

#358
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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vader da slayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Liec wrote...

 I find it funny that they're advertising it saying "you don't have to play this!".  :wizard:

Because they know their fans......Most  of them hate MP.<_<


nice sweeping generallization. everyone I know that is a fan of bioware games also plays Halo, CoD, and BF games as well. and aside from Halo CE and Halo 3 none of those have a particularly amazing sp.....I think its funny that people think that just because someone plays RPGs that they must not like mulitplayer games.

Sweeping generalizations seem to be the norm on here. 

#359
The Spamming Troll

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maybe MP if for anyone that didnt play ME1 or ME2. maybe those players are missing that 'extra" content everyone ewhose played the previouse two games will have, so they offer the easierst things its new fanbas loves, MP.

or maybe this is biowares attempt at crowd control. its kindof like bioware is playing on insanity, so their CC is kidof weak! get it!

#360
DRUNK_CANADIAN

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If removing multiplayer would make Origin, non-mandatory....I'd sacrifice Multiplayer (despite me having some interest in it)

#361
StephanieBengal

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Whatever.

#362
dreman9999

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DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

If removing multiplayer would make Origin, non-mandatory....I'd sacrifice Multiplayer (despite me having some interest in it)

Right...And activation codes don't exsist..Image IPB

#363
dreman9999

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jreezy wrote...

vader da slayer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Liec wrote...

 I find it funny that they're advertising it saying "you don't have to play this!".  :wizard:

Because they know their fans......Most  of them hate MP.<_<


nice sweeping generallization. everyone I know that is a fan of bioware games also plays Halo, CoD, and BF games as well. and aside from Halo CE and Halo 3 none of those have a particularly amazing sp.....I think its funny that people think that just because someone plays RPGs that they must not like mulitplayer games.

Sweeping generalizations seem to be the norm on here. 

Have you not seen the mp hate treads on this forum? I'm not say it's a mass majority, but it's at least 55/45.

#364
Thompson family

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I really don't understand why they went for the "multiplayer affects the campaign" approach; to me, that seems like the one obvious thing they could have done to make people complain about the inclusion of it.


I don't think there was any way to add multiplayer -- or any other meaningful change -- without causing a howl, KS.

In addition, what was the alternative? "We have MP now but it has no impact."

#365
Bogsnot1

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iakus wrote...
Multiplayer: If I have to install it to play ME3, it's not optional enough.

I do not think there are enough words in the english language to describe how facepalm-worthy this statement is.
Every other game that has a multiplayer component installs that component alongside the SP game during installation. Why have I not seen you ranting and whining on other game boards demanding the MP client be stripped from the game, because having to install it was not "optional" enough for you?
Seeing those other devs did not say that playing MP was optional, did you then force yuorself to play MP, because you werent given that option?

The amount of self-entitled butthurt in this thread is overwhelming.

#366
GMagnum

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#367
Comsky159

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I really don't understand why they went for the "multiplayer affects the campaign" approach; to me, that seems like the one obvious thing they could have done to make people complain about the inclusion of it.


It does seem a very usual decision. The announcement realised fears most had originally considered irrational and that only the melodramatic spouted. If bots are confirmed then mp will feel a far more natural addition, but I refuse to buy into the "if it's optional it's exempt from opposition" argument. If we can legitimately criticise romance subplots, DLC and sidemissions, then we should be able to oppose mutiplayer in whatever form it presents itself. Besides, for the devout completionist (most of the BSN) multiplayer is in no way optional.

Modifié par Comsky159, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:11 .


#368
Guest_Ferris95_*

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GMagnum wrote...


Hello GM.

Modifié par Ferris95, 29 octobre 2011 - 05:10 .


#369
Seboist

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It seems like they're trying to encourage people to play multiplayer with that decision. Also It's my suspicion that co-op is meant to be a testbed for a future ME MMO

#370
GMagnum

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Ferris95 wrote...

GMagnum wrote...


Hello GM.



hello im ferris95 and i dont know wat a troll is

#371
Gatt9

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Thompson family wrote...

Went back to the video of the BioWare announcement of multiplayer on BioWare TV. Casey Hudson interview, starting at 2:08:

"These places that Commander Shepard is trying to secure across the galaxy as part of your war assets on the single-player side, you're trying to control those on the multi-player side and the better you do the more you control, the better your single player ending will be."

It could be as simple as this: Do you want to take control of some base, wipe out a Reaper or something as Commander Shepard leading two squadmates, or do you want to do it with up to four players -- or even by yourself -- in MP?

Either way, the "asset" is secured for game purposes.

===========
(edited P.S.)

On a less-speculative tack, I think it should be clear in each mission whether something will be a "war asset" or not. A lost locket or even a missing child will not be. A defended base or Krogan "princess" will clearly be.


Your quote illustrates the problem though Thompson.

The quotes continually make reference to "Doing well",  without quanitfying it.  The original quote on single player readiness was

"If you do almost everything,  and you do really well,  you'll have more than enough resources to [bypass multiplayer]"

There's a clear advantage given to Multiplayer,  and significant ambiguity in exactly how single player will compensate.  The quotes consistently point to the strong possibility that we're talking spending hours hunting down randomized items/quests,  and that we must meet some pre-defined criteria when doing quests. 

Which the criteria could be unreasonable,  such as ultra-high kill counts,  or forcing players to alter the way they play the game to meet some criteria.  That quantifier,  "Do really well",  strongly indicates some form of scoring,  which could quite easily be tied to reflexes,  or Developer determined correct conversation paths.

Notice how,  just like with the original multiplayer question,  they dance around actually defining what a single player must do to achieve the optimal ending?  They give vague reassurances "Oh,  it's completely optional",  but they consistently avoid saying "Single players can easily achieve the optimal ending". 

There's always quantifiers,  or always dodging the question,  just like when they were hiding the multiplayer,  they won't come straight out and give a solid answer.

Given their track record,  I'd venture it's safe to assume that avoiding multiplayer and getting the optimal ending won't be trivial.

Because all they've stated in that article is that you don't have to enter a multiplayer mission,  they neglected to mention if you could still get the optimal ending without entering a multiplayer mission.  So they basically didn't say anything new.  "You don't have to player Multiplayer if you don't want to",  that's all they said.  Same thing they said on day 1.

But they still haven't clarified "If you do almost everything, and you do really well, you'll have more than enough resources to [bypass multiplayer]"

#372
Iakus

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Thompson family wrote...


There's a straight answer to my question. Thank you, iakus.

While your concern is logical, I don't think we're going to be looking for many lockets during a Reaper invasion. However, we might be looking for someone's lost child.

Surely missions that award "readiness points" won't include trivial pursuits like looking for lockets. I don't think we'll have to do a lot of irrelevant quests to get these points. We may have to play some to find out whether they award points or not. I hope not.

In a best-case scenario, some successful SP missions will make some MP missions unnecessary, and vice-versa.


That is possible.  But other than some vague talk of side missions being "more tied in" to the main story, we know nothing of what any of this will entail.  And given how closemouthed the des are being about the storyline in general, we aren't likely to learn much more than we already know.  This worries me.  Simply hearing "Trust me, this time it will be different" is not a reassurance.

In addition, the talk about being able to get an "optimal ending" strictly through sp strongly implied a completionist run will be pretty much mandatory.  Like I said before, I don't want to have to look under every rock in the galaxy searching for quests.  Finding stuff on your own is fun.  Searching gets tedious.  Especially when you're not sure what it is you're looking for.

Now if there were options like "Do you want to do this mission as Shepard or do you want to go multiplayer to complete it?" That would be an interesting alternative.  I have no idea if that's in the cards.  Doubtful though.

#373
Iakus

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Bogsnot1 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Multiplayer: If I have to install it to play ME3, it's not optional enough.

I do not think there are enough words in the english language to describe how facepalm-worthy this statement is.
Every other game that has a multiplayer component installs that component alongside the SP game during installation. Why have I not seen you ranting and whining on other game boards demanding the MP client be stripped from the game, because having to install it was not "optional" enough for you?
Seeing those other devs did not say that playing MP was optional, did you then force yuorself to play MP, because you werent given that option?

The amount of self-entitled butthurt in this thread is overwhelming.


Waitaminute.  Let me check something....Yep, the whole phrase is there:

"Multiplayer:  If I have to install it to play ME3, it's not optional enough."

Other games are not ME3.  Who cares about them?  Bioware insists that shoehorning in mp at the end of a single player trilogy is completely optional.  I say:  prove it.

If me voicing my opinion causes you a loss of happiness or hurts your sense of well-being, then I apologize, and will endeavor to exist with less offense.

#374
Thompson family

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Gatt9 wrote...

Your quote illustrates the problem though Thompson.

The quotes continually make reference to "Doing well",  without quanitfying it.  The original quote on single player readiness was

"If you do almost everything,  and you do really well,  you'll have more than enough resources to [bypass multiplayer]"

There's a clear advantage given to Multiplayer,  and significant ambiguity in exactly how single player will compensate.


I can't agree with that, Gatt9. I can promise you a complete reply by this evening, but it's 2:20 a.m. my time and I'm going to bed.

#375
DiebytheSword

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Bogsnot1 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Multiplayer: If I have to install it to play ME3, it's not optional enough.

I do not think there are enough words in the english language to describe how facepalm-worthy this statement is.
Every other game that has a multiplayer component installs that component alongside the SP game during installation. Why have I not seen you ranting and whining on other game boards demanding the MP client be stripped from the game, because having to install it was not "optional" enough for you?
Seeing those other devs did not say that playing MP was optional, did you then force yuorself to play MP, because you werent given that option?

The amount of self-entitled butthurt in this thread is overwhelming.


This, this is a work of art.

+1 to you, good sir.