568 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Vegos wrote...

111987 wrote...

You can still do the sidequests and multiplayer

And that's EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

I don't want to be "ABLE TO" do those quests. I want to be "FORCED TO" do them, basically, regardless of whether or not I do any MP.

You want to be forced?

And he's a anti- mp...Like you.

And yet I'm consistently against the idea of "forced".   Try to keep up.

But it's not force. It just has consiquences for not doing it or enough.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Vegos wrote...

ME1 was a 40 hour + game if you did every thing and it was $60.
ME2 wasa 50 hour + game if you did every thing and it was $60.
ME3 is a  50 hour + game if you do every thing(not icluding doing the mp)and it's going to be $60.
Why should the value be less if to take off mp if the game is the same value as it privious game?

Oh look, another one who has no idea about what the words "value" and "price" mean.

Hint: They don't mean the same thing.

Most people don't understand that "value" and "price" aren't the same thing. 

Like anything. It's based on the beholder. But since we can't haggle the price, we have to put a doller value on things. In truth, something can't be worth less for having an optioal feature added on.

1)  What is a "doller"? 
2)  You need to get out more if you think that adding a "feature" can't drive the value of a product down.

An optioanal feature does not drive the price down. Is a car worth less if it comes with a sun roof for free and I don't want one?

Note that I said "value".  You're confusing "price" and "value".

If that "free" sunroof leaks and reduces the structural strength of the car, then yes, it does reduce the value.  Once people find out, it might also drive down the price. 


PS:  What is "optio-anal"?  Wait, I'm not sure I want to know. 

[Thompson family]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
"butthurt"  "panties in a twist"  etc.  Your side of this really doesn't seem to be able to discuss it without making irrelevent personal jabs at the people on the other side.  Demonstrates the weakness of your position.   

At any rate, the actual concern is that the fact that benefits from the MP can be brought over to SP, will affect the construction of SP. 

I can cite just as many accusations that MP caters to idiots. In fact, the most hostile exchange I've ever had on this forum took place on this very thread, after I was called too stupid to understance why MP will ruin SP.

Who's being rude to who is irrelevant. The question of this thread is, why is it assumed MP will hurt SP, and I haven't seen a good answer of why that has to be yet. I've heard some pretty convincing stories and some valid concerns, but those who say SP is doomed haven't convinced me yet.

[Thompson family]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...


Most people don't understand that "value" and "price" aren't the same thing. 

For example ...

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Vegos wrote...

111987 wrote...

You can still do the sidequests and multiplayer

And that's EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

I don't want to be "ABLE TO" do those quests. I want to be "FORCED TO" do them, basically, regardless of whether or not I do any MP.

You want to be forced?

And he's a anti- mp...Like you.

And yet I'm consistently against the idea of "forced".   Try to keep up.

But it's not force. It just has consiquences for not doing it or enough.

What do you think "forced" means?  I know English isn't your best langauge, so I'll give you a moment to go look that up. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Thompson family wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Most people don't understand that "value" and "price" aren't the same thing. 

For example ...

Where am I doing so? 

Or are you just doing that "I know you are but what am I?" thing? 

[Thompson family]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

IF it does become a blockbuster, the pro-MP side will always assume that it was because of MP... 

And then there's trying to put words in the mouths of those who disagree with you.

If ME3 goes blockbuster, the most likely reason will be becaue of it's a war game that has benefitted from a trilogy's worth of refinement.

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Vegos wrote...

ME1 was a 40 hour + game if you did every thing and it was $60.
ME2 wasa 50 hour + game if you did every thing and it was $60.
ME3 is a  50 hour + game if you do every thing(not icluding doing the mp)and it's going to be $60.
Why should the value be less if to take off mp if the game is the same value as it privious game?

Oh look, another one who has no idea about what the words "value" and "price" mean.

Hint: They don't mean the same thing.

Most people don't understand that "value" and "price" aren't the same thing. 

Like anything. It's based on the beholder. But since we can't haggle the price, we have to put a doller value on things. In truth, something can't be worth less for having an optioal feature added on.

1)  What is a "doller"? 
2)  You need to get out more if you think that adding a "feature" can't drive the value of a product down.

An optioanal feature does not drive the price down. Is a car worth less if it comes with a sun roof for free and I don't want one?

Note that I said "value".  You're confusing "price" and "value".

If that "free" sunroof leaks and reduces the structural strength of the car, then yes, it does reduce the value.  Once people find out, it might also drive down the price. 


PS:  What is "optio-anal"?  Wait, I'm not sure I want to know. 

No, I'm not. It may not be the same thing but we as a sociaty use price tograde value generally. Like when we say a value of a car degrades over time, we are taking about the price of it's resale. Think of it as how weight is used to measure gravity. Price is used to measure value.

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:55 .

[Thompson family]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Most people don't understand that "value" and "price" aren't the same thing. 

For example ...

Where am I doing so? 

Or are you just doing that "I know you are but what am I?" thing? 

You're saying "most people don't know the difference between "value" and "price." Even assuming that's true for the sake of argument, explain it to them, or ignore them and debate the people who do. It was a needless swipe.

It may have been more subtle than "butthurt," but it's still an insult.

Modifié par Thompson family, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:52 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

didymos1120 wrote...

People still doing the "could have" thing I see, despite the fact that there's no way to know how those resources actually would have been used if MP didn't exist.

Because it's the "could have" that matters. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Vegos wrote...

111987 wrote...

You can still do the sidequests and multiplayer

And that's EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

I don't want to be "ABLE TO" do those quests. I want to be "FORCED TO" do them, basically, regardless of whether or not I do any MP.

You want to be forced?

And he's a anti- mp...Like you.

And yet I'm consistently against the idea of "forced".   Try to keep up.

But it's not force. It just has consiquences for not doing it or enough.

What do you think "forced" means?  I know English isn't your best langauge, so I'll give you a moment to go look that up. 

I'm sorry. I was under the impression that the goal of the game was to beat it, not to beat it in the best way. As a game in general, your not being force to do the side mission to beat it. If you want the right ending, you need to
do this, but to beat the game, it's not forced on you.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Thompson family wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

IF it does become a blockbuster, the pro-MP side will always assume that it was because of MP... 

And then there's trying to put words in the mouths of those who disagree with you.

If ME3 goes blockbuster, the most likely reason will be becaue of it's a war game that has benefitted from a trilogy's worth of refinement.

The missing context here is that someone had said MP was added to make ME3 a "blockbuster" -- I was directly addressing that.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Liec wrote...

 I find it funny that they're advertising it saying "you don't have to play this!".  

I just got around to glancing at this thread.

Epic comment, Liec.  Love it!  :lol:

[Killjoy Cutter]

Thompson family wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Most people don't understand that "value" and "price" aren't the same thing. 

For example ...

Where am I doing so? 

Or are you just doing that "I know you are but what am I?" thing? 

You're saying "most people don't know the difference between "value" and "price." Even assuming that's true for the sake of argument, explain it to them, or ignore them and debate the people who do. It was a needless swipe.

It may have been more subtle than "butthurt," but it's still an insult.

There's a lot of research that shows that many people don't understand the difference between price and value.  I didn't even try to link it to any other opinion or position we've been talking about.  It's just a statement of fact. 

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

IF it does become a blockbuster, the pro-MP side will always assume that it was because of MP... 

And then there's trying to put words in the mouths of those who disagree with you.

If ME3 goes blockbuster, the most likely reason will be becaue of it's a war game that has benefitted from a trilogy's worth of refinement.

The missing context here is that someone had said MP was added to make ME3 a "blockbuster" -- I was directly addressing that.

You'll never know why the game will sell as much as it does. But they key difference betwene ME1/ME2 and ME3 is co-op. I mean, no-one is going to buy the game because we now have weapon mods. So if ME3 sells twice what ME2 sold, you can reasonably assume that the addition of co-op, to some extent, did drive sales.

[Killjoy Cutter]

111987 wrote...

@iakus

You have no idea how the sidequests that yield war assets will be done though. Will they be found by, as you say, scanning every random planet in the galaxy, and talking to every single character on each hub world?

Or will they be more like the loyalty missions? Marked on the map, important missions, but entirely optional?

Where did this notion of "you don't know, so you can't be concerned" come from? 

[Killjoy Cutter]

111987 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

IF it does become a blockbuster, the pro-MP side will always assume that it was because of MP... 

And then there's trying to put words in the mouths of those who disagree with you.

If ME3 goes blockbuster, the most likely reason will be becaue of it's a war game that has benefitted from a trilogy's worth of refinement.

The missing context here is that someone had said MP was added to make ME3 a "blockbuster" -- I was directly addressing that.

You'll never know why the game will sell as much as it does. But they key difference betwene ME1/ME2 and ME3 is co-op. I mean, no-one is going to buy the game because we now have weapon mods. So if ME3 sells twice what ME2 sold, you can reasonably assume that the addition of co-op, to some extent, did drive sales.

I suppose one could assume that, yes. 

[111987]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

111987 wrote...

@iakus

You have no idea how the sidequests that yield war assets will be done though. Will they be found by, as you say, scanning every random planet in the galaxy, and talking to every single character on each hub world?

Or will they be more like the loyalty missions? Marked on the map, important missions, but entirely optional?

Where did this notion of "you don't know, so you can't be concerned" come from? 

I think you misunderstood the point i was trying to make. I'm not saying one shouldn't be worried or suspicious until we learn more. But i don't think people should be angry, or cancelling their pre-orders (not saying iakus was saying that, but you get the point) until we learn more.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Thompson family wrote...

I don't see how BW can give enough information to allay the fears expressed on this thread without giving the whole story away.

At least in my case, the concerns I have are now at the point that the story will have to be "spoiled" in order to address those concerns.  In other words, I'm not buying until after the game is out for a while and I can read the damn wiki for things that will make me regret spending my money and time on the game. 

After DA2, the deceitfulness and vagueness about multiplayer, and all the rumors about game-ruining elements in the story... that's what it's going to take. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 30 octobre 2011 - 05:09 .

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

I don't see how BW can give enough information to allay the fears expressed on this thread without giving the whole story away.

At least in my case, the concerns I have are now at the point that the story will have to be "spoiled" in order to address those concerns.  In other words, I'm not buying until after the game is out for a while and I can read the damn wiki for things that will make me regret spending my money and time on the game. 

After DA2, the deceitfulness and vagueness about multiplayer, and all the rumors about game-ruining elements in the story... that's what it's going to take. 

What? So you want to spoil the games story first in order to play it? That kinda kills the point.
Also, DA2 was made by another team....who rush the game. They have nothing to do with ME or it's production. ME3was even delay giving more time to make the game. So your consern is groundless.

[Iakus]

111987 wrote...

I think you misunderstood the point i was trying to make. I'm not saying one shouldn't be worried or suspicious until we learn more. But i don't think people should be angry, or cancelling their pre-orders (not saying iakus was saying that, but you get the point) until we learn more.

To be honest, I haven't decided yet.  But as things currently stand, mp is a strong disincentive for me to preorder.  It's simply not worth paying full pricce for a feature I'm not going to use.

I'm hoping more information will come out clarifying my concerns.  But I'm less than optimistic about that since Bioware's more in a "Trust me, it's awesome" mode than actually explaining anything.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

I don't see how BW can give enough information to allay the fears expressed on this thread without giving the whole story away.

At least in my case, the concerns I have are now at the point that the story will have to be "spoiled" in order to address those concerns.  In other words, I'm not buying until after the game is out for a while and I can read the damn wiki for things that will make me regret spending my money and time on the game. 

After DA2, the deceitfulness and vagueness about multiplayer, and all the rumors about game-ruining elements in the story... that's what it's going to take. 

What? So you want to spoil the games story first in order to play it? That kinda kills the point.
Also, DA2 was made by another team....who rush the game. They have nothing to do with ME or it's production. ME3was even delay giving more time to make the game. So your consern is groundless.

Bioware is Bioware is Bioware.  Don't give me that "different team" crap.

And yes, it's better to have the game "spoiled" than it is to waste money and time on a game I won't like.  And every time Bioware says "but it's AWESOME!", that becomes more and more true. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 30 octobre 2011 - 05:16 .

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

111987 wrote...

I think you misunderstood the point i was trying to make. I'm not saying one shouldn't be worried or suspicious until we learn more. But i don't think people should be angry, or cancelling their pre-orders (not saying iakus was saying that, but you get the point) until we learn more.

To be honest, I haven't decided yet.  But as things currently stand, mp is a strong disincentive for me to preorder.  It's simply not worth paying full pricce for a feature I'm not going to use.

I'm hoping more information will come out clarifying my concerns.  But I'm less than optimistic about that since Bioware's more in a "Trust me, it's awesome" mode than actually explaining anything.

But the thing is you buying a 50 hour+  game...Just like ME2. It just has mp with it. Your consern should not be what you don't want to play but what you want to play in the game. As long as the sp is fantasic, who cares what mode they add on the the game.

[Killjoy Cutter]

dreman9999 wrote...

iakus wrote...

111987 wrote...

I think you misunderstood the point i was trying to make. I'm not saying one shouldn't be worried or suspicious until we learn more. But i don't think people should be angry, or cancelling their pre-orders (not saying iakus was saying that, but you get the point) until we learn more.

To be honest, I haven't decided yet.  But as things currently stand, mp is a strong disincentive for me to preorder.  It's simply not worth paying full pricce for a feature I'm not going to use.

I'm hoping more information will come out clarifying my concerns.  But I'm less than optimistic about that since Bioware's more in a "Trust me, it's awesome" mode than actually explaining anything.

But the thing is you buying a 50 hour+  game...Just like ME2. It just has mp with it. Your consern should not be what you don't want to play but what you want to play in the game. As long as the sp is fantasic, who cares what mode they add on the the game.

As noted earlier, the concern is that your "free' sunroof could easily leak and make the car less safe. 

[dreman9999]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

I don't see how BW can give enough information to allay the fears expressed on this thread without giving the whole story away.

At least in my case, the concerns I have are now at the point that the story will have to be "spoiled" in order to address those concerns.  In other words, I'm not buying until after the game is out for a while and I can read the damn wiki for things that will make me regret spending my money and time on the game. 

After DA2, the deceitfulness and vagueness about multiplayer, and all the rumors about game-ruining elements in the story... that's what it's going to take. 

What? So you want to spoil the games story first in order to play it? That kinda kills the point.
Also, DA2 was made by another team....who rush the game. They have nothing to do with ME or it's production. ME3was even delay giving more time to make the game. So your consern is groundless.

Bioware is Bioware is Bioware.  Don't give me that "different team" crap.

And yes, it's better to have the game "spoiled" than it is to waste money and time on a game I won't like.  And every time Bioware says "but it's AWESOME!", that becomes more and more true. 

It's not different teams crap.You can say that Swtor is going to have tps combat  because ME has it with that notion. It matter that they have different teams, because the consepts of those teams are different. Each team dicides what is being put in the game as long as the heads allow it and based on what has been put in the last 3 games, they can get away with alot.
Also, Silverman is just with marketing. He has no say over how the games are made. In short, why listen to a guy who has no say on how the game is make.