1663 réponses à ce sujet

[InvincibleHero]

iakus wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

You're missing the point everything you think is established about Ashley came from BW. BW determines how Ashely behaves and it's that simple. Real life people make more radical changes so it is completely valid for them to do something you consider out of character based on your interpretation of the character.

Guess what you could be entirely wrong or even if right they can establish whatever they want and invalidate anything they want. it might not make for stellar writing but we don't even know that. They could have entirely plausible resons and yet all you got is I think this is how Ash should be. No leg to stand on.

This is a lot like what had people screaming about Dragon Age 2 concerning characters like Anders, Cullen, and Leliana.

The whole Bioware saying  "Continuity's what I say it is!'

Guess what want I said we know she has a sister is 100% true. The fact she has two others is irrelevant.

Those decisions might befit Alliance soldier Ashely but guess what spectre Ashley has a role change. Her mission priorites might likewise change. Spectres are solo so stealth might be more valued over big guns and clunky armor since they are outnumbered and cannot call upon a platoon of specialized marines to back them up.

You have no dog in this fight other than because I want it my way.

:

Armored Spectres we've seen so far:
Nihlus
Shepard (especially soldier Shepard)
Kaidan
Tela Vasir
Saren

examples of as-yet unarmored Spectres.
Ashley.

There is zero reason why Ash's role should significantly change, especially since it would have been in less than one year, as she was still wearing thick armor and carrying a big gun on Horizon.

They seemed a mixture of medium and light armors none with heavy. Ashley's new armor seems to at least qualify as light armor so exactly what is the problem?  If Ashley expects a great deal of heavy combat then her suit could conceivably be different. A heavy gun might not be ideal in the outnumbered situation. Big noise = come kill me please. She might think infilitrate and kill target works and most spectres seem to do so. Shepard made waves with his guns blazing approach in ME several times.

[MythicLegands]

InvincibleHero wrote...



 It could also be armor that looks light is as protective as former Atlas armor due to advances, light armor is more preferrable for stealth missions, armor is ineffective against more pwoerful high velocity weapons or whatever BW wants to establish

Then why doesn't shepard get this fancy armor?

My adapt shepard better get something that looks like Ashley's or merinda's outfits, don't want to look out of place.

Modifié par MythicLegands, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:07 .

[jeweledleah]

and stealth requires thigh high boots with the most vulnerable part of the leg, you know where all the major arteries are barely covered and throat and part of the chest completely exposed?

for all the tightness of ME1 armors - they provided full coverage, ceramic plating (even light suits) and combat boots.

not to mention - infiltrator Shepard and Adept Shepard... wears full armor.

[Sgt Stryker]

InvincibleHero wrote...

They seemed a mixture of medium and light armors none with heavy. Ashley's new armor seems to at least qualify as light armor so exactly what is the problem?

There are several problems, in fact. How does she put on a helmet and ensure a solid seal? Where do the kinetic barrier emitters go? Where does the medigel dispensing system go? Why does her back not have the light-up rails where her assault rifle and sniper rifle attach? If Ashley does not need any of these things, then why does Shepard (who can be either male or female, let's not forget) need them? The list goes on and on....

[InvincibleHero]

Xeranx wrote...
Me mentioning she has three was clarifying that she doesn't just have 'a' sister because the way you put it could be interepreted that she doesn't have more than one.  In light of that it's completely relevant.  You're the one who mentioned facts and left 2/3 of it out regarding "a few other" things as minor.

And speaking of: You mentioned that besides her love of poetry, that she has a sister, and that she's a soldier that the other stuff was minor.  Or is that wrong considering how you worded it?  

Coming back to your statement about facts, since you brought it up, Ashley could completely hate poetry in ME3 so why mention facts at all if you're only concerned with the ones you cite?  Regarding that I think your last statement suits you more.

Is the statement she has a sister false? Nope. Going in a circle so if you want to claim you're right go ahead.

Yes she could hate poetry in ME3 and if she does then it won't kill me or the character for me. I have moved on from things I absolutely loved and so can anyone else. It doesn't even have to be much of a reason. People change. Though knowing direct quotes of poetry means she cares enough about it at that point in her life. I did indeed err in calling it a fact. It does not establish future causation in the least and neither does any of the arguments I've seen about her appearance.

I only cited a few because only a few were needed. It proved there is little fact about her character and only what BW gavew us. List all "supposed Xeranx approved facts about Ashley" if you want to and that amounts to squat. BW can change them at will and everything I said still applies.

[InvincibleHero]

MythicLegands wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...



 It could also be armor that looks light is as protective as former Atlas armor due to advances, light armor is more preferrable for stealth missions, armor is ineffective against more pwoerful high velocity weapons or whatever BW wants to establish

Then why doesn't shepard get this fancy armor?

My adapt shepard better get something that looks like Ashley's or merinda's outfits, don't want to look out of place.

I would love it if we could choose what armored appearance Shepard has. My gut tells me it will be one size fits all like ME2. A  medium armor that has customizable pieces. I'm not going to get worked up about it and just enjoy playing the game.

[Iakus]

[quote]InvincibleHero wrote...

@Iakus

Sure you can dsilike a specific appearance, but it in no way invalidates the character or makes her ineffective. BW establishes all that. Armor in ME had stats that meant something and most people swapped out that very weak phoenix set. You changed her appearance (only if you did I know some small amount RP) for your benefit. BW changes her appearance for her benefit and theirs and hopefully the majority of people that will buy ME3. we know none of that since ME3 is not in our hands yet. Facts are thin at this time.[/quote]

We've seen screenshots of Ash in this outfit.  Even in what looks like combat conditions.  This outfit is, at this point certainly in the game as her default outfit.  

I and others despise this outfit.  For reason stated in the last few pages.  Laid side by side with an Alliance uniform, I find it painfully ugly and immature-looking

As of yet, there is no word that we can swap this out at all, armored or otherwise.  Let alone halfway through the game after doing whatever ME3's version of a loyalty mission is.

 I am compelled, therefore to let Bioware know now, before release, that I find this outfit teribly displeasing and would they mind terribly find something else for her to wear that looks like something that didn't come out of a '60's sci-fi program,, pretty please?

And FYI, in ME1 I favored putting Ash (and Kaidan and Liara and even Shepard) in outfits with more solid colors, such as Onyx or Hydra.  Far more professional and military looking

[quote]
See you admit it could be was because her role has certainly changed. It could also be armor that looks light is as protective as former Atlas armor due to advances, light armor is more preferrable for stealth missions, armor is ineffective against more pwoerful high velocity weapons or whatever BW wants to establish. We don't know the reasons yet people say this is a travesty based only upon what outcome they personally desire. Spectre is outside of Alliance command as aptly illustrated by ME and Shepard. Their orders have no weight unless Shepard chose to act upon them. [/quote]

Shepard's armor look very thick and armor-like.  So does Kaidan's.  So does Vega's.  Heck, so does Garrus's.

And don't make me quote the codex on what kinetic barriers are and aren't effective against.

The travesty is twofold;

1) the outfit is straight-up ugly.  I've explained why I think so.  I find it goes against pretty much everything Ash was in the first game.  Yes, people can change, but change a character that drastically with no explanation or transition and you've got a whole new character which coincidentally has the same name.  

2) We've been told several times over the past few months that Ash would indeed have armor and a helmet.  We are yet to see anything to that effect.  On the contrary, we have seen shots of her in combat, weilding an assault rifle in the afformentioned atrocity of an outfit.  I see zero reason why we are not shown armnor.  Particularly since we've seen Kaidan only in armor thus far.  

Which makes me wonder, what's his "casual uniform" going to be?  Will it have a V-neck and thogh-high boots too?

I don't know because I cannot read minds. What we do know is attractive women have more pull with men as proven by study after study. So showing skin could indeed lead to more favorable results. I have no doubts Ashley would follow protocol where it is warranted and of maximal benefit to her goals.[/quote]

[CptData]

Seriously iakus.

It's just an outfit. It's Ashley's casual uniform, either she picked it from multiple options, designed it by herself or it's a standard issue for female special agents. We don't know that.

Isn't it confirmed Ashley's appearance can be changed for combat? That also includes armor, hair bun & co ...
I'm fine with her outfit. It's not the best solution, but we saw far worse ... in ME2.

[jeweledleah]

@ Iakus - no predator x or ursa? (those were usually my armors of choice - that would switch depending on conditions - Ursa for snow and urban, predator for everything else - very military looking IMO )

@ CptData - there's a screenshot from one of the bioware pulse editions where everyone but Ashley as showed to be in armor, Shepard included.  Ashley is still wearing that blue outfit.  furthermore - we saw Ashley stand right next to alliance aid.  we saw plenty of alliance aids.  we saw Vasir.

that outfit is no standard issue

Modifié par jeweledleah, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:23 .

[InvincibleHero]

jeweledleah wrote...

and stealth requires thigh high boots with the most vulnerable part of the leg, you know where all the major arteries are barely covered and throat and part of the chest completely exposed?

for all the tightness of ME1 armors - they provided full coverage, ceramic plating (even light suits) and combat boots.

not to mention - infiltrator Shepard and Adept Shepard... wears full armor.

Well do you expect a light suit would save you if you blunder the stealth part and have to take on ten rocket launcher krogans? Stealth assumes get to target and elimintae target and get out. People forget the kinetic barriers and medi-gel that are amped up in gameplay. The armor is also amped up as the novels establish something like .3 seconds heavy armor buys you once barriers go down. Maybe you get one shot off but still dead.
It could tie into the melee as some moves might be unavailable to heavily armored characters. What if they can't roll or do jump kicks among other things. We don't know and can't know until ME3 drops. There can be dozens of valid reasons why little or no armor is better.

[CptData]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Well do you expect a light suit would save you if you blunder the stealth part and have to take on ten rocket launcher krogans? Stealth assumes get to target and elimintae target and get out. People forget the kinetic barriers and medi-gel that are amped up in gameplay. The armor is also amped up as the novels establish something like .3 seconds heavy armor buys you once barriers go down. Maybe you get one shot off but still dead.
It could tie into the melee as some moves might be unavailable to heavily armored characters. What if they can't roll or do jump kicks among other things. We don't know and can't know until ME3 drops. There can be dozens of valid reasons why little or no armor is better.

Isn't it Ashley who says: "As long as I can't dodge bullets I prefer thick armor." or something similar?
I know Ash will have heavy armor in ME3. BW just doesn't want to show EVERYTHING.

[jeweledleah]

InvincibleHero wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

and stealth requires thigh high boots with the most vulnerable part of the leg, you know where all the major arteries are barely covered and throat and part of the chest completely exposed?

for all the tightness of ME1 armors - they provided full coverage, ceramic plating (even light suits) and combat boots.

not to mention - infiltrator Shepard and Adept Shepard... wears full armor.

Well do you expect a light suit would save you if you blunder the stealth part and have to take on ten rocket launcher krogans? Stealth assumes get to target and elimintae target and get out. People forget the kinetic barriers and medi-gel that are amped up in gameplay. The armor is also amped up as the novels establish something like .3 seconds heavy armor buys you once barriers go down. Maybe you get one shot off but still dead.
It could tie into the melee as some moves might be unavailable to heavily armored characters. What if they can't roll or do jump kicks among other things. We don't know and can't know until ME3 drops. There can be dozens of valid reasons why little or no armor is better.

and I ask you yet again.

why ONLY Ashley.

[Iakus]

InvincibleHero wrote...

They seemed a mixture of medium and light armors none with heavy. Ashley's new armor seems to at least qualify as light armor so exactly what is the problem?  If Ashley expects a great deal of heavy combat then her suit could conceivably be different. A heavy gun might not be ideal in the outnumbered situation. Big noise = come kill me please. She might think infilitrate and kill target works and most spectres seem to do so. Shepard made waves with his guns blazing approach in ME several times.

Ash is a self-described "straight-up puncher" .  She is not an infiltrator.  She is not a diplomat.  For those jobs I'm sure there are other Spectres better suited.  Ash has her own skillsets.

While she might conceivably cross-train for these roles, there's probably not a lot of time for that between running errands for Anderson, attending OCS and undergoing whatever Spectre evaluations Shepard missed out on.

I am not convinced her outfit is armor at all.  I still think it's a uniform.  An incredibly ugly uniform poor Ash will be stuck with for large parts of the game.  If that really is armor as well, my opinion of Bioware will sink even lower.

Modifié par iakus, 25 novembre 2011 - 07:24 .

[InvincibleHero]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

They seemed a mixture of medium and light armors none with heavy. Ashley's new armor seems to at least qualify as light armor so exactly what is the problem?

There are several problems, in fact. How does she put on a helmet and ensure a solid seal? Where do the kinetic barrier emitters go? Where does the medigel dispensing system go? Why does her back not have the light-up rails where her assault rifle and sniper rifle attach? If Ashley does not need any of these things, then why does Shepard (who can be either male or female, let's not forget) need them? The list goes on and on....

Well BW needs to establish that not I. If Jacob, Mordin, Thane, and Miranda had barrier and medi-gel and sealed environment in ME2, then I see no problem with that suit having them. The light up rails are likely more aesthetic then utile. Shepard does not seem to ever rely on stealth but more boom boom and BOOM BOOM.

[Iakus]

CptData wrote...

Seriously iakus.

It's just an outfit. It's Ashley's casual uniform, either she picked it from multiple options, designed it by herself or it's a standard issue for female special agents. We don't know that.

Isn't it confirmed Ashley's appearance can be changed for combat? That also includes armor, hair bun & co ...
I'm fine with her outfit. It's not the best solution, but we saw far worse ... in ME2.

I suspect it is "just an outfit"  but I still find it ugly. regardless of where it came from.

All that's confirmed is that she will have "armor and a helmet"  We have no idea what this looks like or when it becomes available.  We do not know what will be done with her hair.  There was some hope wihen it looked liek the black outfit was armor that her hair would be tied back or in a bun during combat.  But now that it's pretty certain that ourfit was just a concept piece of a casual outfit, even her hair is an unknown.  

The screenshot of everyone but Ash in armor does tell us that she's running around in that getup while everyone else is properly armored for at least part of the game.

[InvincibleHero]

iakus wrote...

Ash is a self-described "straight-up puncher" .  She is not an infiltrator.  She is not a diplomat.  For those jobs I'm sure there are other Spectres better suited.  Ash has her own skillsets.

While she might conceivably cross-train for these roles, there's probably not a lot of time for that between running errands for Anderson, attending OCS and undergoing whatever Spectre evaluations Shepard missed out on.

I am not convinced her outfit is armor at all.  I still think it's a uniform.  An incredibly ugly uniform poor Ash will be stuck with for large parts of the game.  If that really is armor as well, my opinion of Bioware will sink even lower.

Was it not established spectre have to get the job done? They don't choose their missions. They don't get the luxury of specializing in only one thing. It seems more jack of all trades. They have to learn whatever they need to. i doubt dropping an improvised nuke was part of Alliance or spectre training after all.  The game hiccups and makes Shepard at times brilliant diplomat and then a dunder head. So BW will make the characters what they perceive their need to be to achive the goals they want from a storyline or scene.

[Nashiktal]

Nothing is confirmed cptdata, only a single tweet that says Ashely gets armor like Kaiden. However that was months ago, and since then we have seen three separate outfits for Ashley, none of them even similar to what Kaiden has, of the three one is the blue latex suit, the second is the dark red and white light armor, and that boob window outfit.

While everyone all the other Male soldiers (and biotic) happen to get big bulky heavy armor, even in alternate appearances. Yay.

Really wish ashleys writer never left, I wouldn't be as worried.

[Iakus]

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Iakus - no predator x or ursa? (those were usually my armors of choice - that would switch depending on conditions - Ursa for snow and urban, predator for everything else - very military looking IMO )

I rarely purchased my armors.  I'd take whatever happened to drop from enemies.  That means some armors I saw a lot less often than others 

[InvincibleHero]

jeweledleah wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

and stealth requires thigh high boots with the most vulnerable part of the leg, you know where all the major arteries are barely covered and throat and part of the chest completely exposed?

for all the tightness of ME1 armors - they provided full coverage, ceramic plating (even light suits) and combat boots.

not to mention - infiltrator Shepard and Adept Shepard... wears full armor.

Well do you expect a light suit would save you if you blunder the stealth part and have to take on ten rocket launcher krogans? Stealth assumes get to target and elimintae target and get out. People forget the kinetic barriers and medi-gel that are amped up in gameplay. The armor is also amped up as the novels establish something like .3 seconds heavy armor buys you once barriers go down. Maybe you get one shot off but still dead.
It could tie into the melee as some moves might be unavailable to heavily armored characters. What if they can't roll or do jump kicks among other things. We don't know and can't know until ME3 drops. There can be dozens of valid reasons why little or no armor is better.

and I ask you yet again.

why ONLY Ashley.

I thought I answered it in a previous post. A spectre chooses their armaments so what others wear is irrelevant. It could also be she has no access to her combat suit being under attack in say a military hearing might do that. She could very well have armor and they just haven't shown it. If it is her armor so what?

[Xeranx]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
Me mentioning she has three was clarifying that she doesn't just have 'a' sister because the way you put it could be interepreted that she doesn't have more than one.  In light of that it's completely relevant.  You're the one who mentioned facts and left 2/3 of it out regarding "a few other" things as minor.

And speaking of: You mentioned that besides her love of poetry, that she has a sister, and that she's a soldier that the other stuff was minor.  Or is that wrong considering how you worded it?  

Coming back to your statement about facts, since you brought it up, Ashley could completely hate poetry in ME3 so why mention facts at all if you're only concerned with the ones you cite?  Regarding that I think your last statement suits you more.

Is the statement she has a sister false? Nope. Going in a circle so if you want to claim you're right go ahead.

Yes she could hate poetry in ME3 and if she does then it won't kill me or the character for me. I have moved on from things I absolutely loved and so can anyone else. It doesn't even have to be much of a reason. People change. Though knowing direct quotes of poetry means she cares enough about it at that point in her life. I did indeed err in calling it a fact. It does not establish future causation in the least and neither does any of the arguments I've seen about her appearance.

I only cited a few because only a few were needed. It proved there is little fact about her character and only what BW gavew us. List all "supposed Xeranx approved facts about Ashley" if you want to and that amounts to squat. BW can change them at will and everything I said still applies.

I said you left 2/3 of it out.  Did I say you were wrong that she had a sister?  Doesn't look like it, but you want to think I did. Believe what you want.

I don't know who said you were the one to decide what was valid and what wasn't, but you did it anyway.  I didn't goad you into doing that and I don't have the power to do that.  That was on you.  And now you're trying to spin this as though I have a list of approved facts (a dig of course) immediately after you said you "err"-ed on calling them facts.  Like I'm bullying you or something.  No.  After this I'm not debating or discussing this topic with you.  You can keep your spin away from me.  Thanks.

[Nashiktal]

@invinciblehero

What? Specters DO choose their missions. They can do almost anything they want, hell vasir was doing mercenary work for the broker, and shep is an example of this as well.

[Iakus]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Was it not established spectre have to get the job done? They don't choose their missions. They don't get the luxury of specializing in only one thing. It seems more jack of all trades. They have to learn whatever they need to. i doubt dropping an improvised nuke was part of Alliance or spectre training after all.  The game hiccups and makes Shepard at times brilliant diplomat and then a dunder head. So BW will make the characters what they perceive their need to be to achive the goals they want from a storyline or scene.

Spectres are agents from the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance and answer only to the Citadel Council. They are elite military operatives, granted the authority to deal with threats to peace and stability in whatever way they deem necessary.They operate independently or in groups of two or three. Some are empathetic peacekeepers, resolving disputes through diplomacy. Others are cold-blooded assassins, ruthlessly dispatching problem individuals. All get the job done, one way or another, often operating outside of the bounds of galactic law.

Shepard's pure awesome and can do all of the above.  Other Spectres are quite likely more specialized

[jessielou]

The argument I keep hearing is "Ashley doesn't believe in wearing light armor on the battlefield. I know this because I heard her say that to one of our squadmates in an elevator one time. Therefore Ash would never wear that because it's completely implausible for a woman to change her mind about the types of clothing/armor she wears, and to suggest that she would is completely ooc."

[Iakus]

jessielou wrote...

The argument I keep hearing is "Ashley doesn't believe in wearing light armor on the battlefield. I know this because I heard her say that to one of our squadmates in an elevator one time. Therefore Ash would never wear that because it's completely implausible for a woman to change her mind about the types of clothing/armor she wears, and to suggest that she would is completely ooc."

My arguement originally was that her new outfit/uniform is ugly and should really be changed.  And hey, wouldn't it be really nice to see her armor, given we haven't seen a single screenshot of it yet, even though we've seen shots where it would really make sense for her to be wearing it?

And I can't imagine anyone, man or woman, to change their mind about wearing armor in combat without a seriously compelling reason.