1663 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealJayDee]

I simply love this picture!


Urm, in the context of this discussion, I mean, of course... ^^

[InvincibleHero]

iakus wrote...

Hey you posted on this thread 

I've always stated that style and practicality are not mutually exclusive.  An outift can look unique and suitable for its purpose.  Ash's uniforms fails for at that.  I cannot see her being taken seriously wearing that.  Not just the collar, though it's part of it.   But the whole thing.

I was saying literally that is the entire argument and that is unlikely to be seen. Nothing epic there.  At least a PM might be noticed.

However, all you mention about style and practicality are pure opinion. I get you don't like it. Trying to convince someone you're right just based on opinion is well futile. Trying to say it is based on a "established character" is worse as I mentioned in another post. BW deems it acceptable and its good enough for me. Could be better and it could be worse you know.

[InvincibleHero]

Nashiktal wrote...

You see what I said, and what you said have a bit of an imbalance. I state that ashley's writer leaves, which coincidentally follows these rather jarring changes so far, which leaves me worried.

And you say how should I know what ashley is like because we have only known her a short time? So does that mean jack is actually an upright person who loves business suits and church? That thane is actually a girly girl? That kasumi is actually a butch warrior who hates to steal things? We have only kown those characters a short time, guess we know nothing about them, nope none.

At least those characters didn't have their writer leave so any inconsistancies might be explained away. Ashley? Well lets just say her changes to a more... feminine persuasion, while kaidens more manly attire are just coincidence. Yup.

People change and do 180s. Women and men will make radical changes with a new companion in the picture. Changing clothes or appearance is not as jarring.

Now her appearance does matter a lot as a spectre because her role changed from front-line warrior to has to diplomatically deal with situations in non-combat roles as well. (Iakus this applies to you too.) So she needs to look good instead of frumpish. She may want to use sex appeal to appeal to men and asari alike. (Not that I think any of what is shown is sexy or sexually charged in any way). Bw thinks for Ashley and have given her this appearance. By extension she thinks it is appropriate for the situations in game that she is wearing those outfits.

The only thing we can say is at that time the characters were that way. Jack can indeed fall in love and become a church girl for all we know. Something in the past does not guarantee future causation. Kasumi could go legit and so on without violating their character. It is never established that your current job has to be always so.

I don't understand what you are getting at with Kaiden. More manly look why?

I think most of it due to improvements in the game engine and what they are capable of learning from their past games. I think we have all seen games where they beginning levels look a great deal worse than later ones. They maximized the engine could get more out of it later through experience. They can and probably will make all characters look better (according to BW devs which you could well disagree with the result).

[Iakus]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

You see what I said, and what you said have a bit of an imbalance. I state that ashley's writer leaves, which coincidentally follows these rather jarring changes so far, which leaves me worried.

And you say how should I know what ashley is like because we have only known her a short time? So does that mean jack is actually an upright person who loves business suits and church? That thane is actually a girly girl? That kasumi is actually a butch warrior who hates to steal things? We have only kown those characters a short time, guess we know nothing about them, nope none.

At least those characters didn't have their writer leave so any inconsistancies might be explained away. Ashley? Well lets just say her changes to a more... feminine persuasion, while kaidens more manly attire are just coincidence. Yup.

People change and do 180s. Women and men will make radical changes with a new companion in the picture. Changing clothes or appearance is not as jarring.

Now her appearance does matter a lot as a spectre because her role changed from front-line warrior to has to diplomatically deal with situations in non-combat roles as well. (Iakus this applies to you too.) So she needs to look good instead of frumpish. She may want to use sex appeal to appeal to men and asari alike. (Not that I think any of what is shown is sexy or sexually charged in any way). Bw thinks for Ashley and have given her this appearance. By extension she thinks it is appropriate for the situations in game that she is wearing those outfits.

The only thing we can say is at that time the characters were that way. Jack can indeed fall in love and become a church girl for all we know. Something in the past does not guarantee future causation. Kasumi could go legit and so on without violating their character. It is never established that your current job has to be always so.

I don't understand what you are getting at with Kaiden. More manly look why?

I think most of it due to improvements in the game engine and what they are capable of learning from their past games. I think we have all seen games where they beginning levels look a great deal worse than later ones. They maximized the engine could get more out of it later through experience. They can and probably will make all characters look better (according to BW devs which you could well disagree with the result).

No one's saying Ash can't look good.  But I, at least am saying that outfit doesn't look good on her.  Specifically, it does not look serious.  If she is going to have more of a diplomatic role (and not all Spectres are diplomats, btw) she'll have to be taken seriously by those she deals with.  

RE:  past and future causation.  No, it's not a guarantee.  But it should be a pretty good indicator.  Even when changes take place, we should be able to trace why the changes happened.  In nearly three years, Shepard (and we) only had one brief encounter with Ash.  But this still doesn't explain the outfit, save that Bioware got it into its head that costumes (excuse me "iconic looks")  are now defining features in characterization..

RE Kaidan:  Kaidan's look emphasizes what a tough marine he is.  Every shot we've seen of him has been in some form of heavy armor.  Bioware is emphasizing Kaidan's masculinity and Ash's femininity.  Essentially turning them into cliched stereotypes to make them appear more attractive.  Like comic book superheroes.

Though personally, I'm wonerding what Kaidan's uniform will look like.  WIll it have thigh-highs?  Or maybe a cape instead?  Will he have white pants, or will he do the Superman/Batman "underwear on the outside" thing? 

Modifié par iakus, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:28 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

iakus wrote...

RE Kaidan:  Kaidan's look emphasizes what a tough marine he is.  Every shot we've seen of him has been in some form of heavy armor.  Bioware is emphasizing Kaidan's masculinity and Ash's femininity.  Essentially turning them into cliched stereotypes to make them appear more attractive.  
 

OMG ... so much this! ^

[CptData]

Bio Addict wrote...

CptData wrote...

jreezy wrote...

CptData wrote...

There's still an option to do a petition so BW staff will replace Ashley's new facial structure and brows with the "old" face. After all, that shouldn't take too much time, it's just a detail.

Then again BW never made a patch for Garrus' face in ME ...

Yeah I'm hoping they don't do that considering how insignificant that request is.

Depends on what you see as "insignificant". Why should Ash change her nose?

Probably for the same reason anyone gets plastic surgery.  To be more attractive to the opposite sex but when asked about it lie and claim they "did it for myself."

I think her nose was pretty much perfect.

[AdmiralCheez]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

iakus wrote...

RE Kaidan:  Kaidan's look emphasizes what a tough marine he is.  Every shot we've seen of him has been in some form of heavy armor.  Bioware is emphasizing Kaidan's masculinity and Ash's femininity.  Essentially turning them into cliched stereotypes to make them appear more attractive.  
 

OMG ... so much this! ^

And it chaps my fat, white ass SO GODDAMN MUCH because I liked them BECAUSE they defied the stereotypes.

[ohnotherancor]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And it chaps my fat, white ass SO GODDAMN MUCH because I liked them BECAUSE they defied the stereotypes.

I like this human. She understands.

[Cheesy Blue]

jreezy wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

iakus wrote...

RE Kaidan:  Kaidan's look emphasizes what a tough marine he is.  Every shot we've seen of him has been in some form of heavy armor.  Bioware is emphasizing Kaidan's masculinity and Ash's femininity.  Essentially turning them into cliched stereotypes to make them appear more attractive.  
 

OMG ... so much this! ^

And it chaps my fat, white ass SO GODDAMN MUCH because I liked them BECAUSE they defied the stereotypes.

It kind of makes me understand the people that always say "BioWare isn't who they used to be" or other similar sentiments. This "Hollywoodification" happened as soon as they were bought by EA but even so the blame for it seems to be solely on BioWare's shoulders. They've gone on record and said that EA allows them to make their games how they want to make them. Maybe BioWare isn't who they used to be anymore, for better or worse.

Yeah! **** those coporate EA ****s! And **** the man! I say we Occupy EA because we the 99% are just fed up! Occupy EA! We are the 99%

The people united will never be didvided!

*Gets clubbed by cop in riot gear

Modifié par Cheesy Blue, 30 novembre 2011 - 08:27 .

[Cheesy Blue]

jreezy wrote...

Cheesy Blue wrote...

jreezy wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

iakus wrote...

RE Kaidan:  Kaidan's look emphasizes what a tough marine he is.  Every shot we've seen of him has been in some form of heavy armor.  Bioware is emphasizing Kaidan's masculinity and Ash's femininity.  Essentially turning them into cliched stereotypes to make them appear more attractive.  
 

OMG ... so much this! ^

And it chaps my fat, white ass SO GODDAMN MUCH because I liked them BECAUSE they defied the stereotypes.

It kind of makes me understand the people that always say "BioWare isn't who they used to be" or other similar sentiments. This "Hollywoodification" happened as soon as they were bought by EA but even so the blame for it seems to be solely on BioWare's shoulders. They've gone on record and said that EA allows them to make their games how they want to make them. Maybe BioWare isn't who they used to be anymore, for better or worse.

Yeah! **** those coporate EA ****s! And **** the man! I say we Occupy EA because we the 99% are just fed up! Occupy EA! We are the 99%

The people united will never be didvided!

*Gets clubbed by cop in riot gear

Don't forget the pepper spray!

Ugh... Dammit how do post pics on this site I need post pepper spray cop to make this thread better.

[mcneil_1]

Just wondering but why do people keep on saying Two years?
Isnt ME3 only a couple of months after the Horizon mission?

Modifié par mcneil_1, 30 novembre 2011 - 09:25 .

[mineralica]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

iakus wrote...

RE Kaidan:  Kaidan's look emphasizes what a tough marine he is.  Every shot we've seen of him has been in some form of heavy armor.  Bioware is emphasizing Kaidan's masculinity and Ash's femininity.  Essentially turning them into cliched stereotypes to make them appear more attractive.  
 

OMG ... so much this! ^

Well, I can understand why person promoted to SpeCTRe would wear heavier armor (imagine Khalisah bint Sinan article - "Second human SpeCTRe was killed with a knife a day after promotion!":sick:), while this, indeed, makes Kaidan a special snowflake among biotic squadmates.

[CptData]

jreezy wrote...

mcneil_1 wrote...

Just wondering but why do people keep on saying Two years?
Isnt ME3 only a couple of months after the Horizon mission?

I believe ME3 is about 6-12 months after ME2 as of right now. BioWare hasn't nailed down a specific time frame.

No idea if Vancouver knows "summer" and "winter" but it's said ME3 will play in 2186 and since there's no snow in the opening mission, I can assume the events of ME3 will happen in spring - summer of said year.

[Sgt Stryker]

InvincibleHero wrote...

The only thing we can say is at that time the characters were that way. Jack can indeed fall in love and become a church girl for all we know. Something in the past does not guarantee future causation. Kasumi could go legit and so on without violating their character. It is never established that your current job has to be always so.

While it's true that people can do a 180 in real life, and the same can happen in fiction, good fiction generally gives some plausible reason for drastic personality shifts. If Bioware can successfully pull this off with the VS's writing, then I say more power to them. However, when such a personality shift is done purely for the sake of marketing, and these changes are not well incorporated into the character's writing, then I have to call that questionable conduct at the least.

[Nashiktal]

That was made by a different team entirely, bioware isn't one straight up entity. Although I suppose in rebuttal to aveline and meridith one could say look at isabella no pants. I like isabella but man the forums went crazy over her.

At least it was in character to her.

[Iakus]

Nashiktal wrote...

That was made by a different team entirely, bioware isn't one straight up entity. Although I suppose in rebuttal to aveline and meridith one could say look at isabella no pants. I like isabella but man the forums went crazy over her.

At least it was in character to her.

Was gonna post something similar, but you beat to it.  If Mass Effect gets no flak for what went wrong with DA2, they get no credit for what went rioght either.

And even with Isabela, I installed a mod so she wears pants 

[Xeranx]

iakus wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

That was made by a different team entirely, bioware isn't one straight up entity. Although I suppose in rebuttal to aveline and meridith one could say look at isabella no pants. I like isabella but man the forums went crazy over her.

At least it was in character to her.

Was gonna post something similar, but you beat to it.  If Mass Effect gets no flak for what went wrong with DA2, they get no credit for what went rioght either.

And even with Isabela, I installed a mod so she wears pants 

My thing with Isabela was that I thought the direction they went in with her was a bit weird considering the first time we saw her in DA:O she wasn't wearing a helmet.  I didn't think much of it however for a few reasons (and this isn't all of them):
(1) She wasn't a completely fleshed out character when we first met her so there's nothing to point out that Isabela IS anything other than her being Rivaini;
(2) ever since I was a kid I've seen images of people during time periods as depicted in DA2 fighting in the clothes on their backs and not necessarily wearing full-on armor (Hercules - Eolis (sp?), Xena - Gabrielle, both featured Autolycus), so I give it more leniency;
(3) Isabela was the ONLY companion in any manner of provocative dress and (most importantly) was respected as far as her characterization was concerned.  

In ME2 I was never sure whether I was supposed to take the female characters seriously.  I didn't like Miranda's portrayal.  Several times I'm made to deal with her being a "femme fatale" (right) if I spoke to her.  Highlighting her looks at one point and then having an NPC completely trash it the next.  Two ass shots that are completely unnecessary with the one on Illium being more egregious than the one on the ship.  Then to have her, Jack, and Samara on worlds that should hurt them due to their skin being exposed...it really makes one think what exactly Bioware is trying to accomplish here.  Never mind that after playing the game I felt that the women in ME2 weren't treated as though they could handle their own for the most part or were thoroughly 

Actually, and this is a bit of an aside, I do want to say that Jack (with no bullets or hostile worlds invovled) is someone I can take seriously if not for the beyond obvious hooks of her character.  Her style (read leather strap bra) isn't highlighted and she makes no bones about her look.  This ties into my feeling on Isabela.  Design the character and let them be.  If anyone's going to make a comment on their look it should be an npc and not the person in question and definitely NOT in a woe is me manner on top of that.

Just my thoughts.

Modifié par Xeranx, 30 novembre 2011 - 06:14 .

[Nashiktal]

A male desire demon? Me gusta.