I'm a little curious about the nature of "witches" in Dragon Age and how they're distinct from run-of-the-mill mages.
Now, all witches are mages, but not all mages are witches. And the characters who are identified as "witches" are generally identified as such on sight. (In fact, the first thing Fenris does upon meeting Flemeth is to call her a witch.)
It can't be just because they're female apostates, or Bethany and Wynne would be witches. They're never identified as such, but Flemeth and Morrigan definitely are called witches. There are also enemy witches in Awakening.
I do recall that Zathrian responds to Morrigan calling him a sorceror by saying "Do not call me that, witch!" In that case, it may be an insult.
Or maybe the term refers to female apostates who have "dark" magical powers, as Merrill and I believe Velanna are also called on witches on occassion.
Other than checking to see if they weigh the same as a duck, what's the distinction between apostates and witches in Dragon Age?
Witchy Women
Débuté par
thats1evildude
, oct. 28 2011 08:29
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#2
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 08:35
Dr. rotinaj
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I think "witch" is either a female maleficar or derogatory term for female mages/apostates.
#3
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 09:12
Zanallen
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I figured Witch of the Wilds was a title of sorts. So Flemeth and Morrigan were referred to as witches because of that title.
#4
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 09:15
Arius23
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Maybe it has to do with shape-shifting and nature magic.
#5
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 09:43
whykikyouwhy
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"Witch" has to do with the hair, really. Have wild spiky/horned hair? Female mage? Live in the woods? Witch. Without the hair component, you're just a mage/apostate/maleficar.
Broomstick is optional.
Broomstick is optional.
#6
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 10:05
thats1evildude
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whykikyouwhy wrote...
"Witch" has to do with the hair, really. Have wild spiky/horned hair? Female mage? Live in the woods? Witch. Without the hair component, you're just a mage/apostate/maleficar.
Broomstick is optional.
Morrigan's hair wasn't spiky. Her outfit was pretty outrageous, mind you.
It just struck me as odd that Fenris, who isn't from Ferelden and has probably never heard of the Witch of the Wilds, identifies Flemeth as a witch the moment he sees her.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:09 .
#7
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 10:14
whykikyouwhy
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She had a little spiky bit in the back.
And Fenris probably assumes all women are witches.
And Fenris probably assumes all women are witches.
#8
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 10:17
Rogue Roxy
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whykikyouwhy wrote...
She had a little spiky bit in the back.
And Fenris probably assumes all women are witches.
We kinda are, aren't we?
~ Roxy
#10
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 10:21
AlexXIV
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Yeah, was gonna say something along this. They are all witches.Roxy Ferret wrote...
whykikyouwhy wrote...
She had a little spiky bit in the back.
And Fenris probably assumes all women are witches.
We kinda are, aren't we?
~ Roxy
#11
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 10:22
Zanallen
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Hm...I didn't take Fenris for an Eagles man.
#12
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 10:25
Nimrodell
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Superstition at work perhaps? Like from wilder folk - Chasind? Let's say 'civilized' world calls apostates those that are not in the circle, but there are those that don't belong to what Thedas considers a 'civilization' - and how to call a person that uses magic, does supernatural things, not being leashed by Circle, without being indoctrinated or assimilated by Chantry made common language, terms? A witch, that's how they would call it - especially if those powers were shown as destructive - after all, Fenris himself calls Merril a witch (and Merril didn't have commonly accepted education through Circle). Witch implies raw power, great power that can't be explained, it implies hidden ways of training - something that is mystified - and as we know, having Circle, magic sensitive children taken there to be educated is sort of demystification.
#13
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 10:51
TEWR
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thats1evildude wrote...
whykikyouwhy wrote...
"Witch" has to do with the hair, really. Have wild spiky/horned hair? Female mage? Live in the woods? Witch. Without the hair component, you're just a mage/apostate/maleficar.
Broomstick is optional.
Morrigan's hair wasn't spiky. Her outfit was pretty outrageous, mind you.
It just struck me as odd that Fenris, who isn't from Ferelden and has probably never heard of the Witch of the Wilds, identifies Flemeth as a witch the moment he sees her.
I'm sure the tale of Flemeth the infamous apostate and her daughters has made its way to Tevinter. The legend of the Witches of the Wilds was known in Antiva.
But Antiva has their own Witches, so maybe Tevinter is the same.
#14
Posté 28 octobre 2011 - 11:42
Northern Sun
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I'm going to go with witch being a derogatory word for female mage like Dr. rotinaj suggested.
#15
Posté 29 octobre 2011 - 03:06
Urzon
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I always assumed that the "witches" in Dragon Age are just female apostates that live on the fringe of society, or in the wilds like the title goes. Though, they seem to be much more powerful than the average mage. Some of that could be because they could study the forbidden arts, or their powers just exaggerated from the myths and legends around them.
It is hard to tell though since we only met two so far, and only heard off hand accounts of others. It would be scary though thinking that each country had their own version of Flemeth.... Unless of course they all ARE verisons of Flemeth.
On a side note. Is there kinda of a timeline for when the legends of the different Witches of the Wilds legends begin? I wouldn't be surprised if they really all Flemeth, and she has just been moving around over the years. Maybe she has been following the awakening of the Archdemons for the Blights? It has been said that the Grey Wardens know all the sleeping Old Gods locations. Flemeth could know as well. She could have just been waiting in Ferelden for the next Blight to begin (since it had been many centuries since the last one), so she could set up her daughters for the Dark Ritual.
In DA2 after her nice phoenix amulet magic trick, she said she didn't want to be followed from Ferelden didn't she? That was why she gave the amulet to Hawke (other than to be ress'ed), so she could get out of Ferelden without anyone the wiser. Mayber she was going to the next Archdemon location? It has been rumored from the Grey Wardens that another Blight might be coming up quickly...
Now that theory is going to be stuck in my head.
It is hard to tell though since we only met two so far, and only heard off hand accounts of others. It would be scary though thinking that each country had their own version of Flemeth.... Unless of course they all ARE verisons of Flemeth.
On a side note. Is there kinda of a timeline for when the legends of the different Witches of the Wilds legends begin? I wouldn't be surprised if they really all Flemeth, and she has just been moving around over the years. Maybe she has been following the awakening of the Archdemons for the Blights? It has been said that the Grey Wardens know all the sleeping Old Gods locations. Flemeth could know as well. She could have just been waiting in Ferelden for the next Blight to begin (since it had been many centuries since the last one), so she could set up her daughters for the Dark Ritual.
In DA2 after her nice phoenix amulet magic trick, she said she didn't want to be followed from Ferelden didn't she? That was why she gave the amulet to Hawke (other than to be ress'ed), so she could get out of Ferelden without anyone the wiser. Mayber she was going to the next Archdemon location? It has been rumored from the Grey Wardens that another Blight might be coming up quickly...
Now that theory is going to be stuck in my head.
Modifié par Urzon, 29 octobre 2011 - 03:20 .
#16
Posté 29 octobre 2011 - 03:35
whykikyouwhy
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Her phoenix rising trick may be due to one of two reasons, imo:Urzon wrote...
On a side note. Is there kinda of a timeline for when the legends of the different Witches of the Wilds legends begin? I wouldn't be surprised if they really all Flemeth, and she has just been moving around over the years. Maybe she has been following the awakening of the Archdemons for the Blights? It has been said that the Grey Wardens know all the sleeping Old Gods locations. Flemeth could know as well. She could have just been waiting in Ferelden for the next Blight to begin (since it had been many centuries since the last one), so she could set up her daughters for the Dark Ritual.
In DA2 after her nice phoenix amulet magic trick, she said she didn't want to be followed from Ferelden didn't she? That was why she gave the amulet to Hawke (other than to be ress'ed), so she could get out of Ferelden without anyone the wiser. Mayber she was going to the next Archdemon location? It has been rumored from the Grey Wardens that another Blight might be coming up quickly...
Now that theory is going to be stuck in my head.
- She needed to reform/rebuild herself at a place of supreme power (an altar to Mythal)
- She cannot cross large bodies of water under her own power
I'm leaning towards the first. It falls in line with the "witch" mystique.
#17
Posté 29 octobre 2011 - 08:04
Gervaise
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I tend to incline towards Urzon's view, that Flemeth has moved around a bit. I believe the original Flemeth started off in the Wilds before Ferelden existed, so her legend built up there, then even if she moved away for a time people would still remember and think any female mage was Flemeth - in fact if she left behind a daughter to return to, they probably were.
According to Morrigan, the original Flemeth was just an ordinary female mage who called on spirits to avenge herself on Conobar and then fled into the Wilds where she encountered the "demon" who possessed her and gave her her powers. Depending on whether this was before the First Blight or after it, what she encountered may have either been the spirit of an "old god" or another blighted Magister, either of which could have performed the soul jump into Flemeth. Hence her knowledge of such a way of ensuring immortality and her desire to locate and circumvent the destruction of the other old gods. Of course we also have to accept that Morrigan was telling the truth in all this.
Fenris may call Flemeth a witch initially but he also recognises that she is nothing like he has ever encountered before. Coming from someone who has been in Tevinter and thus had more opportunity to see a greater variety of magical manifestations than the rest of Thedas, it is clear that the term witch does not really do her justice.
According to Morrigan, the original Flemeth was just an ordinary female mage who called on spirits to avenge herself on Conobar and then fled into the Wilds where she encountered the "demon" who possessed her and gave her her powers. Depending on whether this was before the First Blight or after it, what she encountered may have either been the spirit of an "old god" or another blighted Magister, either of which could have performed the soul jump into Flemeth. Hence her knowledge of such a way of ensuring immortality and her desire to locate and circumvent the destruction of the other old gods. Of course we also have to accept that Morrigan was telling the truth in all this.
Fenris may call Flemeth a witch initially but he also recognises that she is nothing like he has ever encountered before. Coming from someone who has been in Tevinter and thus had more opportunity to see a greater variety of magical manifestations than the rest of Thedas, it is clear that the term witch does not really do her justice.
