239 réponses à ce sujet

[Russ Mandarin]

What counts as sex with an ardat yakshi?

[DrFumb1ezX]

^
Dying as your nervous systems are shorted-out/over-loaded. XD

[Xeranx]

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

Wow. Really.

I have some points to make. To anyone who says there might be a way to live after sex with an Ardat-Yakshi, it's fairly obvious that you can't. If it were possible, Shepard wouldn't die after doing Morinth. Or, on the other hand, if you can, then Morinth just killed Shepard because she wanted to. Therefore, she is evil.

On the subject of evil, I think Jack is the least evil out of the people you were talking about. She's just crazy, not evil. Morinth is the most evil.

Also, the picky addict comments. If you were addicted to, say, heroin, and you had a choice of a used syringe full that you found on the floor, or waiting a bit longer and getting the same amount, minus the AIDS, you are gonna wait.

I think I made my point.

That scene wasn't communicated well.  Shepard's death during that scene results in a game over screen which isn't conclusive of anything other than something went awry.  While others just accepted that it wasn't possible, I thought that I had missed something.  Why?  Because throughout gaming history the game over screen symbolizes that you, the player, didn't do what you were supposed to in order to survive.  And that event is one of many concerning the narrative and how it, clusmily, goes about trying to give you information.  

Never mind the fact that after an earlier conversation with Samara, the codex and an in-game NPC on the Citadel contradict her.  If you're trying to have a character come across as trustworthy, you don't put things in that allow for doubt to creep up.  Unless you're actually going to go with something more.*  You most certainly do not have the same character NOT tell you what the target looks like if her goal is the death of said character.

*Considering the fact that Grunt can openly react to Morinth on Tuchanka it seems clear to me that they were going to have Morinth on the ship as she was and not take the role of her mother to not spark something on the ship, but they didn't do that.  I don't know if Kasumi's statement was on the game disk before or if it was added later, but it also suggests that Morinth was going to be out in the open on the ship. 

In response to your picky addict comment:

The following represent some of the peripheral health problems associated with injecting heroin.HIV/AIDS[/b]Although sexual transmission gets most of the headlines, one of the most common forms of transmission of AIDS/HIV is through sharing dirty needles. And since heroin addicts are the most likely to ingest their drug though injection, that puts them at a great risk for the virus that causes AIDS.Many communities have enacted clean needle programs to try and offset this problem, but it remains a serious concern. When a heroin addict needs a fix, they do not often wait to find the proper sterile equipment. That means HIV can spread rapidly through groups of drug users, even if they only use an infected needle once.

Source: Michael's House

[Xeranx]

Did you not bold the last bit or are you just trying to be selective?

[Xeranx]

The game over screen occurs when you die, however "throughout gaming history the game over screen symbolizes that you, the player, didn't do what you were supposed to in order to survive."

[Xeranx]

Bebe77 wrote...

just a thought morinth wanted freedom initially so she ran
later she found out samara was coming after her
she started melding to get stonger to protect herself maybe(specific people = more power)
or

She is a evil btch who gets off on killing people
take your pick

The funny thing is it could be either, but there's nothing that nails any of it down.  She could be redeemed in ME3.  That would cause a lot of people to throw a tantrum however considering how so many want her to remain one-dimensional.  *shrug*

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

Xeranx wrote...

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

Wow. Really.

I have some points to make. To anyone who says there might be a way to live after sex with an Ardat-Yakshi, it's fairly obvious that you can't. If it were possible, Shepard wouldn't die after doing Morinth. Or, on the other hand, if you can, then Morinth just killed Shepard because she wanted to. Therefore, she is evil.

On the subject of evil, I think Jack is the least evil out of the people you were talking about. She's just crazy, not evil. Morinth is the most evil.

Also, the picky addict comments. If you were addicted to, say, heroin, and you had a choice of a used syringe full that you found on the floor, or waiting a bit longer and getting the same amount, minus the AIDS, you are gonna wait.

I think I made my point.

That scene wasn't communicated well.  Shepard's death during that scene results in a game over screen which isn't conclusive of anything other than something went awry.  While others just accepted that it wasn't possible, I thought that I had missed something.  Why?  Because throughout gaming history the game over screen symbolizes that you, the player, didn't do what you were supposed to in order to survive.  And that event is one of many concerning the narrative and how it, clusmily, goes about trying to give you information.  

Never mind the fact that after an earlier conversation with Samara, the codex and an in-game NPC on the Citadel contradict her.  If you're trying to have a character come across as trustworthy, you don't put things in that allow for doubt to creep up.  Unless you're actually going to go with something more.*  You most certainly do not have the same character NOT tell you what the target looks like if her goal is the death of said character.

*Considering the fact that Grunt can openly react to Morinth on Tuchanka it seems clear to me that they were going to have Morinth on the ship as she was and not take the role of her mother to not spark something on the ship, but they didn't do that.  I don't know if Kasumi's statement was on the game disk before or if it was added later, but it also suggests that Morinth was going to be out in the open on the ship. 

In response to your picky addict comment:

The following represent some of the peripheral health problems associated with injecting heroin.HIV/AIDS[/b]Although sexual transmission gets most of the headlines, one of the most common forms of transmission of AIDS/HIV is through sharing dirty needles. And since heroin addicts are the most likely to ingest their drug though injection, that puts them at a great risk for the virus that causes AIDS.Many communities have enacted clean needle programs to try and offset this problem, but it remains a serious concern. When a heroin addict needs a fix, they do not often wait to find the proper sterile equipment. That means HIV can spread rapidly through groups of drug users, even if they only use an infected needle once.

Source: Michael's House

The withdrawal for not having sex would probably not be as bad as the withdrawal of not having your heroin fix. Morinth can wait until she finds some "sterile equipment."

And what "went awry" is that Shepard died. Just saying.

[D.Kain]

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

The withdrawal for not having sex would probably not be as bad as the withdrawal of not having your heroin fix. Morinth can wait until she finds some "sterile equipment."

And what "went awry" is that Shepard died. Just saying.

It's not a biological adiction. Her body doesn't feel bad if she doesn't mate. It's not any different than a person that would choose not to have sex ever again. 
Heroin addict feels BAD without a does. Morinth feels normal without melding.

Shepards death is Morinth's death. 

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

The withdrawal for not having sex would probably not be as bad as the withdrawal of not having your heroin fix. Morinth can wait until she finds some "sterile equipment."

And what "went awry" is that Shepard died. Just saying.

It's not a biological adiction. Her body doesn't feel bad if she doesn't mate. It's not any different than a person that would choose not to have sex ever again. 
Heroin addict feels BAD without a does. Morinth feels normal without melding.

Shepards death is Shepard's death. 

Fixed.

But we've been through this. There is no way to escape a fully AI controlled ship alive.

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

D.Kain wrote...

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

The withdrawal for not having sex would probably not be as bad as the withdrawal of not having your heroin fix. Morinth can wait until she finds some "sterile equipment."

And what "went awry" is that Shepard died. Just saying.

It's not a biological adiction. Her body doesn't feel bad if she doesn't mate. It's not any different than a person that would choose not to have sex ever again. 
Heroin addict feels BAD without a does. Morinth feels normal without melding.

Shepards death is Morinth's death. 

Exactly. She wouldn't try to kill Shepard. Therefore, impossible to have sex without killing the partner.

[D.Kain]

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

Exactly. She wouldn't try to kill Shepard. Therefore, impossible to have sex without killing the partner.

Well we don't know if it will be impossible in the future or not. She did tell us WHY she thought Shepard could survive. But atleast you are on eof those people that understand that she didn't want to kill Shepard. =)

Modifié par D.Kain, 31 octobre 2011 - 02:45 .

[BlueMagitek]

Oh good heavens, are we still going on about this? '

I really doubt Samara is an AY; it would be...interesting, but because she had daughters I'd have to say no.

Now, if she didn't have a daughter and Morinth was just some random AY, and the choice for AY was between service as a Justicar, seclusion, or death (running), that could be something interesting indeed.

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

D.Kain wrote...

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

Exactly. She wouldn't try to kill Shepard. Therefore, impossible to have sex without killing the partner.

Well we don't know if it will be impossible in the future or not. She did tell us WHY she thought Shepard could survive. But atleast you are on eof those people that understand that she didn't want to kill Shepard. =)

Yeah, but she did want to kill all of her other victims.

Anyway, I'd trust Samara over Morinth. So when she says Ardat-Yakshi are sterile, I would believe her. Therefore, Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi, in my mind at least. I mean, you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Even if it's wrong.

[D.Kain]

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

Yeah, but she did want to kill all of her other victims.

Anyway, I'd trust Samara over Morinth. So when she says Ardat-Yakshi are sterile, I would believe her. Therefore, Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi, in my mind at least. I mean, you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Even if it's wrong.

Here i will disagree with you. I believe she WANTED to kill her other victims. But not for sex, not for the thrill, but for power that it grants her. Morinth could match Samara in biotic power even though she was half milenia younger, and I believe there was a purpose in that.

ME2 just doesn't have enough information. 

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

D.Kain wrote...

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

Yeah, but she did want to kill all of her other victims.

Anyway, I'd trust Samara over Morinth. So when she says Ardat-Yakshi are sterile, I would believe her. Therefore, Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi, in my mind at least. I mean, you're welcome to believe whatever you want.

Even if it's wrong.

Here i will disagree with you. I believe she WANTED to kill her other victims. But not for sex, not for the thrill, but for power that it grants her. Morinth could match Samara in biotic power even though she was half milenia younger, and I believe there was a purpose in that.

ME2 just doesn't have enough information. 

I agree. But her motives aren't really important. She's still a murderer.

Think of it this way. She's over 400 years old, but I'll round down. If she killed 2 people a year, minus the 40 years before she ran away, thats 720 people. If she was a human, that would make her the worst serial killer in history, the current being 138 proven victims. And face it, she kills more than 2 a year. It's reasonable to believe that she has killed thousands of people. Probably tens of thousands. She probably kills at least one person a week. 52 weeks a year. 360 years killing. That's 18720 people.

The reason she's killed those people doesn't matter. Those people are someones kids, parents, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, grandparents, grandkids, friends. Those deaths affect the people around them. If each of those people had 10 people who cared for them, thats 187200 lives she's has permanently damaged.

Yeah, she's not a nice person.

[D.Kain]

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

I agree. But her motives aren't really important. She's still a murderer.

Think of it this way. She's over 400 years old, but I'll round down. If she killed 2 people a year, minus the 40 years before she ran away, thats 720 people. If she was a human, that would make her the worst serial killer in history, the current being 138 proven victims. And face it, she kills more than 2 a year. It's reasonable to believe that she has killed thousands of people. Probably tens of thousands. She probably kills at least one person a week. 52 weeks a year. 360 years killing. That's 18720 people.

The reason she's killed those people doesn't matter. Those people are someones kids, parents, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, grandparents, grandkids, friends. Those deaths affect the people around them. If each of those people had 10 people who cared for them, thats 187200 lives she's has permanently damaged.

Yeah, she's not a nice person.

Well:

1) If she killed SO many people, she should have been a lot better biotic than Samara already, so probably a little less than what you said, but I don't look so much on numbers anyway. 

2) Actually, motives are important. Shepard blew up 300,000 batarians, because he had a motive. 

3) She IS a murderer, but we don't know what kinds of people she actually killed. Her hanging around dark places might as well suggest that she killed thousands of thugs/mercs/assasins.

4) But what of the fact that she is a murderer? 

[Xeranx]

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

I agree. But her motives aren't really important. She's still a murderer.

Think of it this way. She's over 400 years old, but I'll round down. If she killed 2 people a year, minus the 40 years before she ran away, thats 720 people. If she was a human, that would make her the worst serial killer in history, the current being 138 proven victims. And face it, she kills more than 2 a year. It's reasonable to believe that she has killed thousands of people. Probably tens of thousands. She probably kills at least one person a week. 52 weeks a year. 360 years killing. That's 18720 people.

The reason she's killed those people doesn't matter. Those people are someones kids, parents, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, grandparents, grandkids, friends. Those deaths affect the people around them. If each of those people had 10 people who cared for them, thats 187200 lives she's has permanently damaged.

Yeah, she's not a nice person.

Actually, I find Morinth's motives to be really important so we can finally have a clue who or what she is.  Because of the lack of any motives attributed to her she can go in either direction.  People who refuse to acknowledge that are arguing for the sake of argument.

Also, I find your logic concerning any deaths at Morinth's hands flawed.  Never mind that there's ample examples that can lead anyone to think Samara's body count eclipses Morinth's, you're flip-flopping your arguments.  Concerning your response on the heroin addiction, you're the one who brought it up to make some correlation between one who's addicted to heroin and Morinth.  Then you change it by saying you think the sex addiction is as bad as the heroin addiction.  You basically made Morinth out to be a ravenous dog with the number example you gave.  So if you assert Morinth isn't selective your example is fine, but if you assert that she is selective then your number example is going to be reduced.  But you have to pick a basis for your argument otherwise it'll be hard to discuss or debate anything you say.

However, since you've claimed that Morinth can wait, you have to apply the methodology of a con-man to her case. 
She's not going to be running 3+ cons at one time as your number example implies.  That's not only incredibly dangerous, it's outright stupid.  She would risk being taken down with risky behavior like that.  She may run 2, but that can present a challenge as well.  However, it'll never be two per week or more.  And of course, this is predicated on the idea that we ignore her conversation with Shepard and go with the suggested belief that Morinth goes after innocents or innocents solely.  The conversation really calls into question how Morinth would initially be attracted to a "lowly girl from Omega".  Especially since there was a lowly guy who was into her to begin with.  Then add to that fact there's no reason Nef should have had access to that area or that it was actually explained how and/or why she did.  That's what you learn during an investigation.  And the so-called investigation, at best, was cursory.  But I digress.

The conversation Morinth has with Shepard implies that innocents would not be in any danger from Morinth considering she's drawn to dark and dangerous places.  That of course, would imply that she was drawn to dark and dangerous people.  People like Donovan Hock would be in danger more so than Nef ever will be.  So it's the NOT so innocent that has to worry.  Now, what leads me to that conclusion?  The company Morinth kept and where she escaped to.  I can't believe that someone who's been around for 400 years can't pilot a ship since she's been on the run.  If she was after innocents she could have gone anywhere else.  Not only did she leave a group of killers (Eclipse), she goes to a known lawless area of the Terminus Systems where death is "whatever" as far as the books are concerned.  

My point, since so many bring up the innocent victim angle:
Going to a place like Omega looking for innocents is like going to a garbage dump hoping for a fresh burger.

edited for: formatting

Modifié par Xeranx, 31 octobre 2011 - 06:05 .

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

D.Kain wrote...

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

I agree. But her motives aren't really important. She's still a murderer.

Think of it this way. She's over 400 years old, but I'll round down. If she killed 2 people a year, minus the 40 years before she ran away, thats 720 people. If she was a human, that would make her the worst serial killer in history, the current being 138 proven victims. And face it, she kills more than 2 a year. It's reasonable to believe that she has killed thousands of people. Probably tens of thousands. She probably kills at least one person a week. 52 weeks a year. 360 years killing. That's 18720 people.

The reason she's killed those people doesn't matter. Those people are someones kids, parents, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, grandparents, grandkids, friends. Those deaths affect the people around them. If each of those people had 10 people who cared for them, thats 187200 lives she's has permanently damaged.

Yeah, she's not a nice person.

Well:

1) If she killed SO many people, she should have been a lot better biotic than Samara already, so probably a little less than what you said, but I don't look so much on numbers anyway. 

2) Actually, motives are important. Shepard blew up 300,000 batarians, because he had a motive. 

3) She IS a murderer, but we don't know what kinds of people she actually killed. Her hanging around dark places might as well suggest that she killed thousands of thugs/mercs/assasins.

4) But what of the fact that she is a murderer? 

1) You don't know how much power she gets from the sex, or how much Samara has trained and learned.

2) Alright, that's true. But Shepard had a damn good reason. You know, save the galaxy and all that. But Morinth doesn't. Her motives are self serving.

3) Doesn't matter what kinds of people she killed. Murder is murder. If they did something bad, get them arrested. You don't get to dispense your own justice.

4) Someone who has killed that many people for self gain is an evil person. You made the point a few pages ago about her not being that evil.
"Well Morinth is at the same level with Thane, Jack and Samara. People that are more evil are Kasumi, Zaeed."
My point is that Morinth is much more evil than all these people put together.

Modifié par CyberDirectorFreedom, 31 octobre 2011 - 06:07 .

[CyberDirectorFreedom]

Xeranx wrote...

CyberDirectorFreedom wrote...

I agree. But her motives aren't really important. She's still a murderer.

Think of it this way. She's over 400 years old, but I'll round down. If she killed 2 people a year, minus the 40 years before she ran away, thats 720 people. If she was a human, that would make her the worst serial killer in history, the current being 138 proven victims. And face it, she kills more than 2 a year. It's reasonable to believe that she has killed thousands of people. Probably tens of thousands. She probably kills at least one person a week. 52 weeks a year. 360 years killing. That's 18720 people.

The reason she's killed those people doesn't matter. Those people are someones kids, parents, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunties, grandparents, grandkids, friends. Those deaths affect the people around them. If each of those people had 10 people who cared for them, thats 187200 lives she's has permanently damaged.

Yeah, she's not a nice person.

Actually, I find Morinth's motives to be really important so we can finally have a clue who or what she is.  Because of the lack of any motives attributed to her she can go in either direction.  People who refuse to acknowledge that are arguing for the sake of argument.

Also, I find your logic concerning any deaths at Morinth's hands flawed.  Never mind that there's ample examples that can lead anyone to think Samara's body count eclipses Morinth's, you're flip-flopping your arguments.  Concerning your response on the heroin addiction, you're the one who brought it up to make some correlation between one who's addicted to heroin and Morinth.  Then you change it by saying you think the sex addiction is as bad as the heroin addiction.  You basically made Morinth out to be a ravenous dog with the number example you gave.  So if you assert Morinth isn't selective your example is fine, but if you assert that she is selective then your number example is going to be reduced.  But you have to pick a basis for your argument otherwise it'll be hard to discuss or debate anything you say.

However, since you've claimed that Morinth can wait, you have to apply the methodology of a con-man to her case. 
She's not going to be running 3+ cons at one time as your number example implies.  That's not only incredibly dangerous, it's outright stupid.  She would risk being taken down with risky behavior like that.  She may run 2, but that can present a challenge as well.  However, it'll never be two per week or more.  And of course, this is predicated on the idea that we ignore her conversation with Shepard and go with the suggested belief that Morinth goes after innocents or innocents solely.  The conversation really calls into question how Morinth would initially be attracted to a "lowly girl from Omega".  Especially since there was a lowly guy who was into her to begin with.  Then add to that fact there's no reason Nef should have had access to that area or that it was actually explained how and/or why she did.  That's what you learn during an investigation.  And the so-called investigation, at best, was cursory.  But I digress.

The conversation Morinth has with Shepard implies that innocents would not be in any danger from Morinth considering she's drawn to dark and dangerous places.  That of course, would imply that she was drawn to dark and dangerous people.  People like Donovan Hock would be in danger more so than Nef ever will be.  So it's the NOT so innocent that has to worry.  Now, what leads me to that conclusion?  The company Morinth kept and where she escaped to.  I can't believe that someone who's been around for 400 years can't pilot a ship since she's been on the run.  If she was after innocents she could have gone anywhere else.  Not only did she leave a group of killers (Eclipse), she goes to a known lawless area of the Terminus Systems where death is "whatever" as far as the books are concerned.  

My point, since so many bring up the innocent victim angle:
Going to a place like Omega looking for innocents is like going to a garbage dump hoping for a fresh burger.

edited for: formatting

I said 1, ONE, per week. And it doesn't matter who she's killing. She has no right to do it. Nobody does. No matter how good or bad they are. Just because it's the future, doesn't mean there's no law.