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[SandTrout]

JaceTAce wrote...

People don't really hate Batarians, just certain things in the culture and behavior. The real issue is the fact that consider slavery to be a justifiable practice within their culture and the majority constantly blame humanity for their problems and are always trying to mess with us in whatever way possible. Not to say we don't deserve some of the hostility since we are still new to the galactic government and are already pushing for more power instead of actually respecting the other races' seniority.

Seniority =/= superiority. If they are unable to keep their hold on power, then they are intrinsically less deserving of it. I do no, and will not ever buy the argument that we should simply give into their demands because they got to the Citadel first.

How would you feel if all of a sudden the new kid started believing themselves to be entitled to your stuff and boss you around when you've been around the longest and had to work hard to get to where you are. That's essentially how things are in the game. We should look out for our own interests, but we should also be willing to work with those who have been around the longest and rise up through the ranks as time moves forward, not bulldozing everyone and everything in our way to what we desire. That just ends up leaving us with more problems in the long run.

More accurately, humanity currently represents the new guy that is working extra hours, doing the crap jobs noone else wants(colonizing the Traverse), beating up the local bullies(Turians and Batarians) and doing a better job at getting picked for the high-profile assignments because the boss believes that they will actually follow through and get it done right.

So yeah, I don't hate Batarians, but I don't neccesarily like them either. At least not certain practices they do. I accept that they have a rather valid reason to hate us, but I'm not gonna consider commtting genocide on them for being Batarians. Take out those who are a threat and show the rest some of us aren't bull rushing through like the politicians who prefer not to play nice with other races. Peace is the way. Sorry that that makes me sound like a pansy, but being an **** tends to bring more problems then solutions in life. Prefer playing nice. Not in the game though, I do like being a renegade at certain times (punch the newslady).

Their 'valid' reason to hate us is that we colonized some worlds that they were considering colonizing, and when they tried to shake us down, we actually fought back to keep what we had and they wanted.

[BloodyTalon]

I think they are kinda neat.

I like the eye things and their caste system they seem to have some depth to them

Dislike that slavery seems to be acceptable but that also adds depth

[Homebound]

i find a lot of the things i find immoral to be part of not only their way of life but their cultural identity.

i dont like batarians.

kuudos to the writers.

[InvincibleHero]

Not I. I only have apathy for the ones I drill between the eyes. I let the ones holding Mordin's assistant go free, don't always help the dying one, and Anto was ok.

The only ones I had dislike for are Balak and the bartender.

[Tilarta]

Well, for me, it's a complex issue to explore.

Generally though, I don't hate them or even dislike them.

I don't approve of the way they interact with other races, slave trading/kidnapping, condescenion, aggressive attitude and so on.

But that doesn't mean I'm actively going to be hostile to them.

When the Batarian Captain asked to negotiate in Bring down the sky, I did so and let him go.
I also treated the dying Batarian on the way to Mordin.
And when the Batarians let Daniel go unharmed, I let them go as well.
Even Sergeant Kafka, who even though he works for one of the criminal organisations of Omega, doesn't seem particularly hostile towards humans.
And Garrus does mention he once had a Batarian friend. Had being the operative word, because said Batarian is now dead (he was one of those that died helping Garrus control the crime on Omega).

So, the Batarians cannot be all bad.
And if you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find decent ones to deal with.

Personally, I'm hoping to get a Batarian Squadmember in Mass Effect 3.


Mind you, if said Batarian is a threat to me, I'm not going to give them much leeway. Or any at all.
The Batarian bartender who was poisoning humans got a taste of his own medicine.
Literally.

But there's no animosity involved there.
It's about getting rid of a danger, there's no emotion involved.

Modifié par Tilarta, 02 novembre 2011 - 06:55 .

[SandTrout]

Also, a point to note is that the only 'decent' Batarians that we have come in contact with have been on Omega, which is in the Terminus Systems, along with the Hegemony, but is primarily the place that people go in order to escape their own culture.

No one that you meet on Omega can be reasonably assumed to represent their respective species and its culture. They're not on Omega because they fit in with everyone else on their home-world, they are there specifically because they wanted something other than what their home-world had to offer.

[InvincibleHero]

SandTrout wrote...

Also, a point to note is that the only 'decent' Batarians that we have come in contact with have been on Omega, which is in the Terminus Systems, along with the Hegemony, but is primarily the place that people go in order to escape their own culture.

No one that you meet on Omega can be reasonably assumed to represent their respective species and its culture. They're not on Omega because they fit in with everyone else on their home-world, they are there specifically because they wanted something other than what their home-world had to offer.

What about Charn then?

I don't think your assumption would hold true. They could be what the silent majority is like pretty much like the average human live and let live don't mess with them and you get the right to the same. Note the batarians holding Daniel are surprised to meet and honorable human. Decent batarians may not be uncommon as we have not seen many of them.

[Omega Torsk]

I don't necessarily dislike them as a race. I can see them being decent enough people. They can be viewed as the victims of a totalitarian autocracy and a morally questionable culture on one hand. It also doesn't help that the vast majority of batarians we have encountered in the game are outlaws, since batarians are forbidden by their government to leave batarian-controlled space. The ones we encountered in the Omega slums were frightened citizens and paragon actions will show us that they are not all rotten to the core. Heck, even Charn--a batarian pirate and slaver--proved himself to be a reasonable. I don't think we've been properly exposed to the batarians as a people, yet. Hopefully, Bioware can give us deeper insight on them on the upcoming game.

[Drone223]

Omega Torsk wrote...

I don't necessarily dislike them as a race. I can see them being decent enough people. They can be viewed as the victims of a totalitarian autocracy and a morally questionable culture on one hand. It also doesn't help that the vast majority of batarians we have encountered in the game are outlaws, since batarians are forbidden by their government to leave batarian-controlled space. The ones we encountered in the Omega slums were frightened citizens and paragon actions will show us that they are not all rotten to the core. Heck, even Charn--a batarian pirate and slaver--proved himself to be a reasonable. I don't think we've been properly exposed to the batarians as a people, yet. Hopefully, Bioware can give us deeper insight on them on the upcoming game.

^This most of the Batarians that Shepard has encountered are mercs, pirates/slavers we've yet to see a Batarian citizen

Modifié par Drone223, 02 novembre 2011 - 09:18 .

[General User]

InvincibleHero wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Also, a point to note is that the only 'decent' Batarians that we have come in contact with have been on Omega, which is in the Terminus Systems, along with the Hegemony, but is primarily the place that people go in order to escape their own culture.

No one that you meet on Omega can be reasonably assumed to represent their respective species and its culture. They're not on Omega because they fit in with everyone else on their home-world, they are there specifically because they wanted something other than what their home-world had to offer.

What about Charn then?

I don't think your assumption would hold true. They could be what the silent majority is like pretty much like the average human live and let live don't mess with them and you get the right to the same. Note the batarians holding Daniel are surprised to meet and honorable human. Decent batarians may not be uncommon as we have not seen many of them.

CHARN!?!  You do know why he was at Terra Nova, right? 

Here, I'll let Talitha explain.

Those are the 'decent' batarians?  A slaver and a lynch mob?

Modifié par General User, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:50 .

[SandTrout]

Drone223 wrote...

^This most of the Batarians that Shepard has encountered are mercs, pirates/slavers we've yet to see a Batarian citizen

I think what you mean to say there is that we've yet to see a Batarian civilian. You can reasonably assume that most of the soldiers and slavers that we've met were citizens.

Also, Balak and his crew were civilians, because they were not part of the Hegemony's military. They were also criminals and slavers.

[Nashiktal]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Jellyfish Opera wrote...

 I find Batarians to be one of the most interesting species in the Mass Effect universe. I find them fascinating culturally and visually. 

I noticed though that generally most peope don't like them and find them, for the most part, unappealing to look at. Anyways I was wondering what is your general feelings towards them.

Slavery
caste system
Yeah, what's not to like right?

And then there's the whole thing with everyone of them we meet is more of a scumbag than the next.I can't remember a single friendly batarian in the entire game

Their culture just isn't compatible with any outside of the terminous systems. However I think we should remember that once upon a time slavery was acceptable for much of our known world, and still exists today.

Batarians are probably baffled that the council races don't use slaves.

Now that doesn't excuse them from anything of course, attacking the alliance, and trying to poison the council won't exactly build relations or anything.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 novembre 2011 - 07:03 .

[General User]

SandTrout wrote...

Drone223 wrote...

^This most of the Batarians that Shepard has encountered are mercs, pirates/slavers we've yet to see a Batarian citizen

I think what you mean to say there is that we've yet to see a Batarian civilian. You can reasonably assume that most of the soldiers and slavers that we've met were citizens.

Also, Balak and his crew were civilians, because they were not part of the Hegemony's military. They were also criminals and slavers.

Just to point out, the terms 'criminal' and 'slaver' are not synonymous in the Batarian Hegemony, though they of course are in the Alliance where we meet these scumbags.

[RPGamer13]

They're ugly, but I understand their distaste for humans. but then in that, that makes them also like the humans they so despise.

So, that's why I hate Batarians. And they're ugly and hairy themselves. They're more like humans than they realize.

[Nizzemancer]

Nashiktal wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Jellyfish Opera wrote...

 I find Batarians to be one of the most interesting species in the Mass Effect universe. I find them fascinating culturally and visually. 

I noticed though that generally most peope don't like them and find them, for the most part, unappealing to look at. Anyways I was wondering what is your general feelings towards them.

Slavery
caste system
Yeah, what's not to like right?

And then there's the whole thing with everyone of them we meet is more of a scumbag than the next.I can't remember a single friendly batarian in the entire game

Their culture just isn't compatible with any outside of the terminous systems. However I think we should remember that once upon a time slavery was acceptable for much of our known world, and still exists today.

Batarians are probably baffled that the council races don't use slaves.

Now that doesn't excuse them from anything of course, attacking the alliance, and trying to poison the council won't exactly build relations or anything.

Their perspective on the idea doesn't change anything.

That's like saying a sociopath who killed 15 people did nothing wrong because he doesn't conform to the rules of our society.

[Nashiktal]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

Jellyfish Opera wrote...

 I find Batarians to be one of the most interesting species in the Mass Effect universe. I find them fascinating culturally and visually. 

I noticed though that generally most peope don't like them and find them, for the most part, unappealing to look at. Anyways I was wondering what is your general feelings towards them.

Slavery
caste system
Yeah, what's not to like right?

And then there's the whole thing with everyone of them we meet is more of a scumbag than the next.I can't remember a single friendly batarian in the entire game

Their culture just isn't compatible with any outside of the terminous systems. However I think we should remember that once upon a time slavery was acceptable for much of our known world, and still exists today.

Batarians are probably baffled that the council races don't use slaves.

Now that doesn't excuse them from anything of course, attacking the alliance, and trying to poison the council won't exactly build relations or anything.

Their perspective on the idea doesn't change anything.

That's like saying a sociopath who killed 15 people did nothing wrong because he doesn't conform to the rules of our society.

See the problem isn't that it is one guy not confroming to society, but the entire terminous systems WHICH IS ANOTHER ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SOCIETY. Try preaching your morality to an entire people. At best you will be ignored, at worse war.

To give a non murderous example of different culture, there is one particular tribe in new guinea that has a special ritual all young males have to perform to become men. Want to know what that ritual is? The young men have to perform fellatio on the older males of the tribe, and swallow the semen. If they do not, they are not considered adults and are likely not to marry. (which is a big deal for a tribe of 400 people)

Would you like to go to that tribe and tell them what they are doing is immoral? Is it indeed immoral? To our culture maybe, but not to theirs.

Point is, its not one guy in another culture, ITS TWO CULTURES BUMPING HEADS.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:00 .

[SandTrout]

Nashiktal wrote...

See the problem isn't that it is one guy not confroming to society, but the entire terminous systems. Try preaching your morality to an entire people. At best you will be ignored, at worse war.

If by "preaching your morality" you mean 'bombarding their military and industrial centers from orbit', then I a agree with your analysis.

Modifié par SandTrout, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:01 .

[Nashiktal]

SandTrout wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

See the problem isn't that it is one guy not confroming to society, but the entire terminous systems.

Try preaching your morality to an entire people. At best you will be ignored, at worse war.

If by "preaching your morality" you mean 'bombarding their military and industrial centers from orbit', then I a agree with your analysis.

Hey I never said we shouldn't fight the batarians. All I am saying is that because of the differences batarians and the council races cannot coexist indefinitely.

The council races don't like slavery (save on illium) and to batarians slavery is their culture, their life. Banning slavery would be like banning ice cream, or for a more workable example banning cars.

[SandTrout]

Nashiktal wrote...

*disturbing cultural practice snip*

Would you like to go to that tribe and tell them what they are doing is immoral? Is it indeed immoral? To our culture maybe, but not to theirs.

Point is, its not one guy in another culture, ITS TWO CULTURES BUMPING HEADS.

That analogy doesn't work because the Batarians are actively attacking other cultures in order to fuel their own.

If said tribal culture required that their elder tribesmen do that with unwilling outsiders, we would have a better analogy.

[Nashiktal]

SandTrout wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

*disturbing cultural practice snip*

Would you like to go to that tribe and tell them what they are doing is immoral? Is it indeed immoral? To our culture maybe, but not to theirs.

Point is, its not one guy in another culture, ITS TWO CULTURES BUMPING HEADS.

That analogy doesn't work because the Batarians are actively attacking other cultures in order to fuel their own.

If said tribal culture required that their elder tribesmen do that with unwilling outsiders, we would have a better analogy.

Ah so like the spanish and the aztecs.

Indeed that is not the most workable example, but I wanted to show different perspectives. Nations today, and nations of a few centuries ago are not exempt of attacking, or draining other cultures to fuel their own. Amusingly enough, slavery is a workable exampe here. A few centuries ago we were the batarians.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:05 .

[SandTrout]

Nashiktal wrote...
Ah so like the spanish and the aztecs.

Indeed that is not the most workable example, but I wanted to show different perspectives. Nations today, and nations of a few centuries ago are not exempt of attacking, or draining other cultures to fuel their own. Amusingly enough, slavery is a workable exampe here. A few centuries ago we were the batarians.

True enough. However, those practices are considered reprehensible by the current IRL and ME cultures, and for good reason, and represents a very good reason to develop a dislike of the Batarians and their culture.

[Nashiktal]

SandTrout wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...
Ah so like the spanish and the aztecs.

Indeed that is not the most workable example, but I wanted to show different perspectives. Nations today, and nations of a few centuries ago are not exempt of attacking, or draining other cultures to fuel their own. Amusingly enough, slavery is a workable exampe here. A few centuries ago we were the batarians.

True enough. However, those practices are considered reprehensible by the current IRL and ME cultures, and for good reason, and represents a very good reason to develop a dislike of the Batarians and their culture.

Indeed, I find the practice terrible as well. Although out of curiosity what is the good reason for not having slavery? (That sounds bad in writing, but I am just wondering what the reasons you are hinting at here)

[Nashiktal]

Ah! Sorry for the double post but I just thought of another in universe example of cultures clashing. The yahg. To the yahg, if you are not tough enough (or smart enough) to dominate him, you are his subordinate. If you do not listen, you die. Unfortunately for the council races, they did not understand and unfortunately for the yagh they did not understand either.

As a result, thanks to the council's superior tech and military, the yagh are now essentially on lockdown as a people. What would the situation have been if the yagh had found say... the asari while they were in a primitive state? That would have been an interesting situation.

[DiebytheSword]

I don't dislike Batarians, I dislike their culture, its been touched upon here already I see. I actually liked Sgt. Cathka in ME2, felt bad killing him with the welder.

[SandTrout]

1) Demeaning the value of life and freedom sets a poor precedent for yourself to be placed into a similar circumstance.
2) Voluntary labor works better/harder
3) Revolts are more likely with forced labor