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[SandTrout]

DiebytheSword wrote...

I don't dislike Batarians, I dislike their culture, its been touched upon here already I see. I actually liked Sgt. Cathka in ME2, felt bad killing him with the welder.

You apparently havn't thought through the nature of the Blue Suns on Omega. Cathka is a willing member of the organization that regularly slaughters civilians and bystanders, puts hits on police and other representatives of authority, and actively participates in the drug/slave trades.

In all likelihood, Cathka is guilty of, at the least, aiding in murder and kidnapping.

Garrus wasn't killing them off for no reason

[Nashiktal]

SandTrout wrote...

1) Demeaning the value of life and freedom sets a poor precedent for yourself to be placed into a similar circumstance.
2) Voluntary labor works better/harder
3) Revolts are more likely with forced labor

That plays into culture again. (allowing for the fact we know almost nothing of batarian culture outside of their use of slavery) What if that is indeed the entire point of slavery to batarians? (We have to recognize they enslave their own just as much as others) What if batarian slavery before it spread to the galactic setting was tied into a sort of might makes right situation? Perhaps batarians had some sort of caste system, or perhaps they simply view life and body as yet another commodity?

All three of your points is relying on the fact that batarians are just humans with four eyes, and while there is merit to that assumption (at least to what ME has shown us with aliens so far) we have to take into account we are dealing with aliens here. If humans were to restart from the beginning of existance without the need to have physical sex to reproduce, I think we would find our culture quite different, or to create an example more ground in reality, if america never abolished slavery, when it became a world power how would that have changed the world?

Its similar to the example I presented with the yahg above, save instead of the batarians being a primitve species easily put on lockdown, the batarians were already an intergalactic species (or at least big enough to assert their own power in the terminous) when met with the council races.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:25 .

[DiebytheSword]

SandTrout wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

I don't dislike Batarians, I dislike their culture, its been touched upon here already I see. I actually liked Sgt. Cathka in ME2, felt bad killing him with the welder.

You apparently havn't thought through the nature of the Blue Suns on Omega. Cathka is a willing member of the organization that regularly slaughters civilians and bystanders, puts hits on police and other representatives of authority, and actively participates in the drug/slave trades.

In all likelihood, Cathka is guilty of, at the least, aiding in murder and kidnapping.

Garrus wasn't killing them off for no reason

Don't misunderstand, I have weldered him in nearly every playthrough.  Unlike the other sociopaths, I could see Cathka doing something honest if he didn't belong to this crowd.  I also don't condone the actions of the Blue Suns, but I don't mind Zaeed hanging around, so long as he stays on mission and doesn't hurt innocents.

Allow me to expand.

I'm 35, I'm old enough to remember the cold war, and drills for nuclear war suddenly breaking out in school.  I remember what it was like to live under the threat of certain annihilation from a group of people with values and a culture very different from mine.  I dislike Soviet politics to this day, and I'm distrustful of the nations that were once, or are still, Red.  On the other hand, I have friends who are Russian, or who are from Eastern Bloc nations, and I don't mind them in the least, even if I disagree with their politics, they are pleasant and quirky people that I've come to enjoy the company of.  I could see the Batarians the same way, I could find a Batarian who isn't a jerk and while he would still think slavery was okay, and I obviously wouldn't, I could see myself looking past his cultural views to build a bridge between us.  A small one, but one none-the-less.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:36 .

[SandTrout]

Nashiktal wrote...

That plays into culture again. (allowing for the fact we know almost nothing of batarian culture outside of their use of slavery) What if that is indeed the entire point of slavery to batarians? (We have to recognize they enslave their own just as much as others) What if batarian slavery before it spread to the galactic setting was tied into a sort of might makes right situation? Perhaps batarians had some sort of caste system, or perhaps they simply view life and body as yet another commodity?

That is most likely true, but does not make it a 'good' reason to keep slavery as part of a society, especially once the need for unskilled manual labor has been largely rendered obsolete by industrialization and automation. It makes slavery simply a means to artificially prop yourself up, and a very shaky one at that. Yes, there is some cultural dissonance that plays into it, but my reasons were more of the abstract reasons that I consider slavery a bad idea, not necessarily relavent to the topic at hand.

All three of your points is relying on the fact that batarians are just humans with four eyes, and while there is merit to that assumption (at least to what ME has shown us with aliens so far) we have to take into account we are dealing with aliens here. If humans were to restart from the beginning of existance without the need to have physical sex to reproduce, I think we would find our culture quite different, or to create an example more ground in reality, if america never abolished slavery, when it became a world power how would that have changed the world?

My reasons were not relying on anything regarding the batarians. They were general reasons regarding why humans git rid of slavery.

Its similar to the example I presented with the yahg above, save instead of the batarians being a primitve species easily put on lockdown, the batarians were already an intergalactic species (or at least big enough to assert their own power in the terminous) when met with the council races.

If they kept it in their own species, I probably wouldn't have an issue with them in general. The fact that they're attacking my species for slaves does make a big difference.

I'm human centric and freely admit it.

[Nashiktal]

SandTrout wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

That plays into culture again. (allowing for the fact we know almost nothing of batarian culture outside of their use of slavery) What if that is indeed the entire point of slavery to batarians? (We have to recognize they enslave their own just as much as others) What if batarian slavery before it spread to the galactic setting was tied into a sort of might makes right situation? Perhaps batarians had some sort of caste system, or perhaps they simply view life and body as yet another commodity?

That is most likely true, but does not make it a 'good' reason to keep slavery as part of a society, especially once the need for unskilled manual labor has been largely rendered obsolete by industrialization and automation. It makes slavery simply a means to artificially prop yourself up, and a very shaky one at that. Yes, there is some cultural dissonance that plays into it, but my reasons were more of the abstract reasons that I consider slavery a bad idea, not necessarily relavent to the topic at hand.

All three of your points is relying on the fact that batarians are just humans with four eyes, and while there is merit to that assumption (at least to what ME has shown us with aliens so far) we have to take into account we are dealing with aliens here. If humans were to restart from the beginning of existance without the need to have physical sex to reproduce, I think we would find our culture quite different, or to create an example more ground in reality, if america never abolished slavery, when it became a world power how would that have changed the world?

My reasons were not relying on anything regarding the batarians. They were general reasons regarding why humans git rid of slavery.

Its similar to the example I presented with the yahg above, save instead of the batarians being a primitve species easily put on lockdown, the batarians were already an intergalactic species (or at least big enough to assert their own power in the terminous) when met with the council races.

If they kept it in their own species, I probably wouldn't have an issue with them in general. The fact that they're attacking my species for slaves does make a big difference.

I'm human centric and freely admit it.

Being human centric is not a bad thing, in fact you will probably need it when it is time to make tough decisions during the reaper war. If the chips are down I am going to save humanity over others unless I can see a useful reason not too.

[Killjoy Cutter]

I fry Cathka every time.

On the other hand, I help the Batarian plague victim when going to recruit Mordin.

[Annihilator27]

We could sure use their help in ME3.

[hellcat420]

there are only 12.5 decent batarians in the galaxy. the rest should fry!!!!

[Gemini1179]

They take slaves. Forcefully. Kind of overshadows any other cultural distinctiveness.

**EDIT** That said, one can never say "All (cultural group) are (adjective)" so while I don't have an issue with certain Batarians, the race as a whole does not have my respect.

Modifié par Gemini1179, 03 novembre 2011 - 01:59 .

[SandTrout]

Except for those making the blanket accusations that everyone that dislikes batarians is a bigot (+1 if you notice the irony there), most of us realize that we are dealing with generalizations, and there will be some exceptions. The discussion should be over which batarians are the exception, and which are the rule.

As far as I can tell, the rule is that the Batarians are an antagonistic species with an overblown sense of entitlement and no respect for individual rights.

[SandTrout]

Nashiktal wrote...

Being human centric is not a bad thing, in fact you will probably need it when it is time to make tough decisions during the reaper war. If the chips are down I am going to save humanity over others unless I can see a useful reason not too.

Some people on these boards seem to incorrectly equate "human-centric" with "racist", which is why I go out of the way to point it out. People shouldn't allow such fallicies to stand simply because they think that they are alone on their side of the argument.

[Had-to-say]

Mei Mei wrote...

I do not care for their eyes. Too many. Plus, I figure when Shepard took out the few thousand Batarians, hopefully she got Balak.

It was 300,000. A few thousand is 2 or 3 thousand.

[Iron Star]

I like batarians. Sure, not all of them, but some seem to be really nice people, if you gain their trust (sick batarian in Mordin's recruitment mission anyone?). Of course I don't approve of their caste system and their view on slavery, but who knows? We might be able to affect their opinions on the matter come ME3.