251 réponses à ce sujet

[Zkyire]

Golden Owl wrote...

As for what to do about it....I haven't touched on that subject myself for a reason "Hot Topic"....I was merely putting forward observations in regards to Species threats.

> Reapers are coming.

> Let Thessia burn.

[Golden Owl]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

That has been one of my main points exactly....check a few posts down from the OP for my Asari problem list.

Ah right, just read it.

And /agree.

The whole Ardat-Yakshi thing means that the Asari will be predominantly looking outside their species for reproductive candidates.

You can't really use diplomacy to get out of that.

Whereas the other races, like the Turians? Possible war brewing? Diplomacy could stop it.

Being why Asari are at the top of my list....their breeding preferences and outcomes are a problem brewing.

[GodWood]

Posting because it's relevant

Saphra Deden wrote...
The asari espouse a cultural that encourages all asari to go forth and seek alien spouses. Of-course all species but the krogan are much shorter lived than the asari. We've seen plenty of examples of an alien mating with an asari for life. What is the result of this?

In most cases the alien will stay with the asari until they die and will produce no children. The asari herself may produce a child, but the child is asari, not alien. Even if the asari only has one child in her life-time she will in many cases stay with several alien spouses over their lifetimes. None of these spouses will have children of their own.

This means that unions with asari lower the birth-rate for the non-asari spouse's species. The asari however still have children, so their birthrate remains stable and their population continues to grow. As I'm sure you know, a lowred birthrate means a shrinking population or one that at least does not grow as fast. This is the case for any species closely associated with the asari.

It is stated in the codex that the asari plot their politics on the basis that given enough time (be it decades or centuries), their culture will blend with alien societies and make them more susceptible to asari practices and demands. Naturally this would be even easier for them because all these asari-alien unions means that the asari in those relationships will, in many cases, become defactor citizens of those other species' societies, at least a cultural and social basis.

This allows the asari to manipulate and control other species at that species expense. That species growth is stunted and their culture subverted. This allows the asari to gradually rise to a position of dominance. Influence on an international or interstellar level is a zero-sum game. You can't have influence without taking it from someone else.

Any species which competes with asari (which is any species that is not asari) thus has a vested interest in fighting this cultural and biological war the asari wage.

Another example is the Council. The codex states the asari seek to find "balance" in politics. However balance is a broad concept. It doesn't mean everyone is equal. What it means in this case is that the galaxy is organized in such a way that the asari can decide which way to tip it. Naturally they tilt it in their favor.

The other species respect and revere the asari, so they pine for their approval. This gives the asari much sway."

[Golden Owl]

laecraft wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

So ? What are you doing ? Do we need to fight them ? to destroy them ? to prohibit union between the Asari and humans ? Not gonna happen because it's nonsense.

the truth is that the spatial community is called to unite more and more. It is interconnected, as it is the case today on earth, between blacks, white, asians, arabs, etc.

This is an inevitable process.

No, all the species of the galaxy gradually dying out because they're mating with asari is NOT inevitable process. It can be stopped, or at least slowed.

We can certainly discourage union between asari and humans. Yes, it's going to work. Asari did that. They discouraged union between asari and asari, and it works pefectly well for them, although I imagine it must have been tremendously hard to declare attraction to your own species as something unnatural. It's possible to find a balance here.

But even if the balance is impossble, we'll just declare it highly immoral to mate with asari, and society will look with horror and disgust upon those who do this. As a result, nobody's going to do it, and asari will be forced to mate with each other again, and then all their children are going to become Ardat-Yakshi, and they'll die out completely, because Ardat-Yakshi are sterile.

Thus, the genetic destiny of the asari is going to be fulfilled - and their genetic destiny is extinction. Not our fault - asari species is simply not viable on their own.

You cannot go against evolution itself. It is inevitable.

Although I imagine that if threatened with extinction this way, asari are going to turn to non-sapient organics, husks, and inanimate objects for reproduction. Whatever works for them, as long as they don't rob us of the best of our genes.

If I understand correctly, from what Samara has to say on the topic, it's not as if Ardat-Yakshi were a rampant anomaly before the Asari contacted other species...the Ardat-Yakshi were just that...an anomaly...not common....I really can't see Asari sticking to their own species as being a great problem for them.

[Golden Owl]

GodWood wrote...

Posting because it's relevant

Saphra Deden wrote...
The asari espouse a cultural that encourages all asari to go forth and seek alien spouses. Of-course all species but the krogan are much shorter lived than the asari. We've seen plenty of examples of an alien mating with an asari for life. What is the result of this?

In most cases the alien will stay with the asari until they die and will produce no children. The asari herself may produce a child, but the child is asari, not alien. Even if the asari only has one child in her life-time she will in many cases stay with several alien spouses over their lifetimes. None of these spouses will have children of their own.

This means that unions with asari lower the birth-rate for the non-asari spouse's species. The asari however still have children, so their birthrate remains stable and their population continues to grow. As I'm sure you know, a lowred birthrate means a shrinking population or one that at least does not grow as fast. This is the case for any species closely associated with the asari.

It is stated in the codex that the asari plot their politics on the basis that given enough time (be it decades or centuries), their culture will blend with alien societies and make them more susceptible to asari practices and demands. Naturally this would be even easier for them because all these asari-alien unions means that the asari in those relationships will, in many cases, become defactor citizens of those other species' societies, at least a cultural and social basis.

This allows the asari to manipulate and control other species at that species expense. That species growth is stunted and their culture subverted. This allows the asari to gradually rise to a position of dominance. Influence on an international or interstellar level is a zero-sum game. You can't have influence without taking it from someone else.

Any species which competes with asari (which is any species that is not asari) thus has a vested interest in fighting this cultural and biological war the asari wage.

Another example is the Council. The codex states the asari seek to find "balance" in politics. However balance is a broad concept. It doesn't mean everyone is equal. What it means in this case is that the galaxy is organized in such a way that the asari can decide which way to tip it. Naturally they tilt it in their favor.

The other species respect and revere the asari, so they pine for their approval. This gives the asari much sway."

Good find GodWood...thank you.

[Jog0907]

GodWood wrote...

Posting because it's relevant

Saphra Deden wrote...

/snip/

agree with saphra on this, the way asari aquire power, dominance and even reproduce occurs in a way that is often damaging to other species, and one of the reasons I dislike them.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

laecraft wrote...

We can certainly discourage union between asari and humans...

The best way to do this is through media. It needs to be ingrained in popular culture that unions with non-humans is bad. Just singling out asari would be too blatant. For the start at least it needs to be subtle. We just portray asari-human or asari-non-asari couples as unhealthy with the participants unhappy.

At the same time we enact legislation (if not already in place) to protect humans from being held responsible for children born to asari from unions with humans.

The  idea that the asari are a species to be respected and looked to for guidance needs to be discredited. We should point out their policy failings (the geth uprising, the geth invasion of the traverse, the over-all history and structure of the Council). At the same time it should be pointed out that the export of asari virtues and values diminishes the uniqueness of other alien cultures.

This...Bolded.

As for the rest, I'm not involving myself in such a 'hot topic'...sorry.

[Ravensword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

laecraft wrote...

We can certainly discourage union between asari and humans...

The best way to do this is through media. It needs to be ingrained in popular culture that unions with non-humans is bad. Just singling out asari would be too blatant. For the start at least it needs to be subtle. We just portray asari-human or asari-non-asari couples as unhealthy with the participants unhappy.

At the same time we enact legislation (if not already in place) to protect humans from being held responsible for children born to asari from unions with humans.

The  idea that the asari are a species to be respected and looked to for guidance needs to be discredited. We should point out their policy failings (the geth uprising, the geth invasion of the traverse, the over-all history and structure of the Council). At the same time it should be pointed out that the export of asari virtues and values diminishes the uniqueness of other alien cultures.

I admire your boldness, Saphra. Prepare for community backlash now.

[Sylvianus]

Golden Owl wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
But the Asari don't just mix races/species, etc... They take a DNA imprint from their partner to mix with their offsprings genetic code...the offspring isn't a mixed child, they are all 100% Asari.

Yes but wan can we do against that ? Nothing. Like many other things. Billions chinese, billions indians, billions people, despite the earth is threatened by overcrowding in a close future.

And that's not a genocide, they don't kill anyone, they feed their race, that's it. Humans aren't forced to be with them.

Re-post of my orginal points in regards to Asari:

"Asari:
1.) Encouraged to breed with those outside their own species...pure blood stigma.
2.) Attractive to all other species.
3.) Long life span...how many partners would one Asari have in a life time?
4.) Seem to already have the most substantial population...most of which look outside their species for partners.
5.) Breeding with Asari can only produce Asari.
Taking these points into account, I'm thinking they may eventually out breed every other species out there."

The Asari are not an immediate threat to all other species, but given the list above, in time they will become quite a threat...remember as more Asari are born, the more Asari will be looking outside their own species for partnering up and who knows how many partners that would include over an Asari's life time.

As for what to do about it....I haven't touched on that subject myself for a reason "Hot Topic"....I was merely putting forward observations in regards to Species threats.

I agree with all what you said. The report is good lol. Fair enough. That said, I think you overestimate their process. For me, it's rather more a weakness, related to the customs of their society, of course.

Because they live a long time, they wait precisely a long time on the contrary of humans always in hurry with their short life expectancy.

Asari wait more than 150 years before they decide to have children. I don't remember when they become Matriarch, but it's a long long time.  Before they are only ladies. This is an extremely long time. For each birth of assimilation of other species, there would be much more with them during this time. For humans, I think you know already, it is very fast lol. We can't even decide sometimes."  Whoops, honey, I'm pregnant. All right. "

I even think that the Asari are not very numerous, as their armies. Because this system is so a lengthy process. The fastest system is still producing eggs as salarians or Rachni in my opinions.

Also they are not only with humans and if they want as well ( because you need to fall in love and asari always choose carefully before to unit with someone, it could take many many years ) , but other races, which diversifies
their supplies.

For an asari baby assimilated, how many humans children born ?

It's interesting your views, because I always thought that the Asari was the people who had the least chance of having a large population and its assimilation was a way to deal with its genetic weakness.

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

As for the rest, I'm not involving myself in such a 'hot topic'...sorry.

It's a little late for that. You can't claim on one hand that unions with asari are bad and then say that you aren't saying unions with asari are bad. They are bad or they are not.

I'm just staying away from the 'How to deal with it'...Asari X another Species union is a bad idea...but speculation on how to deal with the issue is an extension of that topic...I can see your point as to why if I am to discuss one, why not the other and yes, it is something I am thinking about, but I have not reached any conclusions myself as yet....still out to lunch on that issue.

[Sylvianus]

laecraft wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

So ? What are you doing ? Do we need to fight them ? to destroy them ? to prohibit union between the Asari and humans ? Not gonna happen because it's nonsense.

the truth is that the spatial community is called to unite more and more. It is interconnected, as it is the case today on earth, between blacks, white, asians, arabs, etc.

This is an inevitable process.

No, all the species of the galaxy gradually dying out because they're mating with asari is NOT inevitable process. It can be stopped, or at least slowed.

We can certainly discourage union between asari and humans. Yes, it's going to work. Asari did that. They discouraged union between asari and asari, and it works pefectly well for them, although I imagine it must have been tremendously hard to declare attraction to your own species as something unnatural. It's possible to find a balance here.

But even if the balance is impossble, we'll just declare it highly immoral to mate with asari, and society will look with horror and disgust upon those who do this. As a result, nobody's going to do it, and asari will be forced to mate with each other again, and then all their children are going to become Ardat-Yakshi, and they'll die out completely, because Ardat-Yakshi are sterile.

Thus, the genetic destiny of the asari is going to be fulfilled - and their genetic destiny is extinction. Not our fault - asari species is simply not viable on their own.

You cannot go against evolution itself. It is inevitable.

Although I imagine that if threatened with extinction this way, asari are going to turn to non-sapient organics, husks, and inanimate objects for reproduction. Whatever works for them, as long as they don't rob us of the best of our genes.

.But I'm pretty sure it couldn't work to blame the Asari, to discourage the union between humans and Asari. On the contrary, Humans would find them even more attractive.

[tobynator89]

Saphra Deden wrote...

laecraft wrote...

We can certainly discourage union between asari and humans...

The best way to do this is through media. It needs to be ingrained in popular culture that unions with non-humans is bad. Just singling out asari would be too blatant. For the start at least it needs to be subtle. We just portray asari-human or asari-non-asari couples as unhealthy with the participants unhappy.

At the same time we enact legislation (if not already in place) to protect humans from being held responsible for children born to asari from unions with humans.

The  idea that the asari are a species to be respected and looked to for guidance needs to be discredited. We should point out their policy failings (the geth uprising, the geth invasion of the traverse, the over-all history and structure of the Council). At the same time it should be pointed out that the export of asari virtues and values diminishes the uniqueness of other alien cultures.

Ah yes, increase racial tensions. Choose the method that carries with it the greatest potential for war and mass genocide.

Cure thats worse than the problem if I ever saw any.

Do I have to point out that there isn't an established single human culture? The asari seem even more diverse considering their rather loose goverment and policies as well as the fact that incorporating other species cultures  increases their own diversity. Even more so considering that each maturing stage probably have their own massive subcultures.

[Ravensword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

Ah yes, increase racial tensions. Choose the method that carries with it the greatest potential for war and mass genocide.

Cure thats worse than the problem if I ever saw any.

Good fences make for good neighbors.

Make that two fences!

[Sylvianus]

Rojahar wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

I fail to see how the Asari can be a threat.

For those who say that the Asari are a threat. What can we do? Do we must destroy them or prohibit sex with them ?

What you say makes me think of that kind of reasoning : Foreigners are a threat to the culture of the white race in our country, we will end up being absorbed by their number and the the mixed childrens.

A mixed race child is still the child of both parents. Asari children are only the children of the Asari. Your example is like claiming that the aliens from the Alien movies are like mixed race children.

No, a white people with a white people = white people =/

A white people + a black people =/ the same elsewhere

mixed children.  /= +another  mixed children

No white people anymore in the end . that's seems the same to me.

It is a natural process. People decide to unite with whomever they choose. And the propensity of humans to want to unite with others, gives a result which is seen as a threat against which we must guard, for a story of culture and preservation. The same trend.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:07 .

[tobynator89]

Saphra Deden wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

Ah yes, increase racial tensions. Choose the method that carries with it the greatest potential for war and mass genocide.

Cure thats worse than the problem if I ever saw any.

Good fences make for good neighbors.

not when you post a big sign in your yard that says: Stay out! in capital letters. Usually results in general hostility in my experience.

[Golden Owl]

Sylvianus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
But the Asari don't just mix races/species, etc... They take a DNA imprint from their partner to mix with their offsprings genetic code...the offspring isn't a mixed child, they are all 100% Asari.

Yes but wan can we do against that ? Nothing. Like many other things. Billions chinese, billions indians, billions people, despite the earth is threatened by overcrowding in a close future.

And that's not a genocide, they don't kill anyone, they feed their race, that's it. Humans aren't forced to be with them.

Re-post of my orginal points in regards to Asari:

"Asari:
1.) Encouraged to breed with those outside their own species...pure blood stigma.
2.) Attractive to all other species.
3.) Long life span...how many partners would one Asari have in a life time?
4.) Seem to already have the most substantial population...most of which look outside their species for partners.
5.) Breeding with Asari can only produce Asari.
Taking these points into account, I'm thinking they may eventually out breed every other species out there."

The Asari are not an immediate threat to all other species, but given the list above, in time they will become quite a threat...remember as more Asari are born, the more Asari will be looking outside their own species for partnering up and who knows how many partners that would include over an Asari's life time.

As for what to do about it....I haven't touched on that subject myself for a reason "Hot Topic"....I was merely putting forward observations in regards to Species threats.

I agree with all what you said. The report is good lol. Fair enough. That said, I think you overestimate their process. For me, it's rather more a weakness, related to the customs of their society, of course.

Because they live a long time, they wait precisely a long time on the contrary of humans always in hurry with their short life expectancy.

Asari wait more than 150 years before they decide to have children. I don't remember when they become Matriarch, but it's a long long time.  Before they are only ladies. This is an extremely long time. For each birth of assimilation of other species, there would be much more with them during this time. For humans, I think you know already, it is very fast lol. We can't even decide sometimes."  Whoops, honey, I'm pregnant. All right. "

I even think that the Asari are not very numerous, as their armies. Because this system is so a lengthy process. The fastest system is still producing eggs as salarians or Rachni in my opinions.

Also they are not only with humans and if they want as well ( because you need to fall in love and asari always choose carefully before to unit with someone, it could take many many years ) , but other races, which diversifies
their supplies.

For an asari baby assimilated, how many humans children born ?

It's interesting your views, because I always thought that the Asari was the people who had the least chance of having a large population and its assimilation was a way to deal with its genetic weakness.

Think along the lines of very long term...Asari numbers will continue to climb over time, leading to more and more Asari looking beyond their own Species for the optimum partnering...byt long term, I mean long term...but what happens in thousands of years is just as relevant to species survival as to what happens now...There is a very interesting cultrally traditional question a number of Native American Nations Elders used to place forward before a major decision was made on behalf of their tribes..."How will this effect 7 generations from now?"....Take that same question to Galactic levels and a much greater time span....See my point?

[Saaziel]

tobynator89 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

laecraft wrote...

We can certainly discourage union between asari and humans...

The best way to do this is through media. It needs to be ingrained in popular culture that unions with non-humans is bad. Just singling out asari would be too blatant. For the start at least it needs to be subtle. We just portray asari-human or asari-non-asari couples as unhealthy with the participants unhappy.

At the same time we enact legislation (if not already in place) to protect humans from being held responsible for children born to asari from unions with humans.

The idea that the asari are a species to be respected and looked to for guidance needs to be discredited. We should point out their policy failings (the geth uprising, the geth invasion of the traverse, the over-all history and structure of the Council). At the same time it should be pointed out that the export of asari virtues and values diminishes the uniqueness of other alien cultures.

Ah yes, increase racial tensions. Choose the method that carries with it the greatest potential for war and mass genocide.

Cure thats worse than the problem if I ever saw any.

Do I have to point out that there isn't an established single human culture? The asari seem even more diverse considering their rather loose goverment and policies as well as the fact that incorporating other species cultures increases their own diversity. Even more so considering that each maturing stage probably have their own massive subcultures.

Not only that , but an isolationist policy by Humans would only remove them more of the galactic scene.

Asaris wont stand by while their names are tarnished. And since Asaris will still continue to bread with other races : They'll up their numbers and their influence and simply pool their greater resources against a belligerent Humanity.

Brilliant plan.

Modifié par Saaziel, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:11 .

[Zakatak757]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Bears.

Beets.

Battlestar Galactica.