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Which Species Poses The Greatest Threat?


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#176
Ravensword

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Golden Owl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

capn233 wrote...

Hmmm. The case for the Asari is one of the more interesting arguments I have seen on here. Pretty insidious type of threat.

It's funny I almost feel guilty about agreeing with it. :)

The insidious threats are always the most interesting and dangerous, as most people don't see them coming until it's too late...:blink:....:blush:


The way to pervent this altogether and get a leg up on the Asari would be for humanity to start researching ways on how to obtain biological immortality.

Do you mean life immortality or DNA immortality?


Life immortality in which humans can only die from disease or injury.

Hmmmm...I'm really not sure I would want to live forever....consider the ramifications....Living forever, wouldn't things get damned boring after a long time?...DNA Immortality may be a better call?...Your thoughts?


If you don't want to live forever then that would mean that you'd prefer to die eventually.

I'm not familiar w/ DNA immortality.

Neither am I...but I could imagine such an eventuality.

Yes, I would prefer to die eventually myself....I would hate to live to the point of having nothing left to do or learn...would eventuate in an eternal stagnation....:(


But you don't know if that will happen, you're merely making an assumption. The fact is that there will be plenty of things to do if you could live forever. We don't know much about the universe and it would be exciting to live through times where exciting discoveries in physics occur that make the impossible possible. Besides, the universe will eventually end anyway.:(

#177
Golden Owl

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Ravensword wrote...


But you don't know if that will happen, you're merely making an assumption. The fact is that there will be plenty of things to do if you could live forever. We don't know much about the universe and it would be exciting to live through times where exciting discoveries in physics occur that make the impossible possible. Besides, the universe will eventually end anyway.:(

The Universerse eventually imploding or whatever it plans are would really suck then...:crying:...and if you have true immortality you get to live through that too....what then?...:(

Modifié par Golden Owl, 30 octobre 2011 - 06:26 .


#178
Ravensword

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Golden Owl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...


But you don't know if that will happen, you're merely making an assumption. The fact is that there will be plenty of things to do if you could live forever. We don't know much about the universe and it would be exciting to live through times where exciting discoveries in physics occur that make the impossible possible. Besides, the universe will eventually end anyway.:(

The Universerse eventually imploding or whatever it plans are would really suck then...:crying:...and if you have true immortality you get to live through that too....what then?...:(


It would be totally worth it.

#179
Golden Owl

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Ravensword wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...


But you don't know if that will happen, you're merely making an assumption. The fact is that there will be plenty of things to do if you could live forever. We don't know much about the universe and it would be exciting to live through times where exciting discoveries in physics occur that make the impossible possible. Besides, the universe will eventually end anyway.:(

The Universerse eventually imploding or whatever it plans are would really suck then...:crying:...and if you have true immortality you get to live through that too....what then?...:(


It would be totally worth it.

Masochist...:D

#180
DeathDragon185

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ok you guys are REALLY getting off topic here.

but please continue

#181
Ravensword

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Golden Owl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Ravensword wrote...


But you don't know if that will happen, you're merely making an assumption. The fact is that there will be plenty of things to do if you could live forever. We don't know much about the universe and it would be exciting to live through times where exciting discoveries in physics occur that make the impossible possible. Besides, the universe will eventually end anyway.:(

The Universerse eventually imploding or whatever it plans are would really suck then...:crying:...and if you have true immortality you get to live through that too....what then?...:(


It would be totally worth it.

Masochist...:D


It would be a very frightening spectale but at least I won't die alone and every single lifeform will die too. So, that's good.

#182
111987

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Rachni.

From the Rachni Wars we know they are easily able to overwhelm the Asari and Salarians. With the Krogan under the influence of the genophage, nothing today would be able to stop the Rachni. They are too smart, too powerful, and too numerous (assuming the Rachni Queen is able to breed without interference).

The Geth might have a chance, but seeing as how they spend all their time building a megastructure, and not preparing for war like the Rachni are, I doubt they have the military strength to deal with potentially billions of Rachni (depending on when this conflict takes place).

#183
Golden Owl

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111987 wrote...

Rachni.

From the Rachni Wars we know they are easily able to overwhelm the Asari and Salarians. With the Krogan under the influence of the genophage, nothing today would be able to stop the Rachni. They are too smart, too powerful, and too numerous (assuming the Rachni Queen is able to breed without interference).

The Geth might have a chance, but seeing as how they spend all their time building a megastructure, and not preparing for war like the Rachni are, I doubt they have the military strength to deal with potentially billions of Rachni (depending on when this conflict takes place).

Here's a thought, considering the Rachni acid like the Thresher Maw acid were able to pass through the Mako's outer defenses directly to the hull, would this also apply to the Geth?...Could possibly make the Geth fairly obsolete in a war against the Rachni even if the Geth did possess the Military might.

#184
IanPolaris

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I will agree that the Asari are effectively a parasitic race (genetically) but I strongly disagree that they are much of a threat.  Point in fact I feel a bit sorry for the Asari.  Talk to the Matriarch Bartender in Eternity and you find out why she is serving drinks instead of being an honored advisor on Thessia...and it's because she sees the future of her people and it isn't pretty.

What a lot of you are missing is that it's the gross reproduction rate per year that matters and not the overall birth numbers.  A lot of people afraid of the Asari are missing a few key points:

1.  They assume that if a person mates with an Asari, they don't mate with their own species.  We learn from Liara in ME1, that this assumption is generally false.  While it's true that some people do mate with Asari for the rest of their lives exclusively, most do not.  In fact many Asari like to have one night stands even for procreation.

2.  There is an assumption that the Asari are outbreeding other races both by taking out members of the gene pools (which is false...see point one) and by using them to breed more 'daughter Asari' at a rate unmatchable by other species.  Yet the available information we have indicates that this simply isn't so.  Consider Samara who seems pretty typical prior to her becoming a justicar.  She had all of three children and had them over the space of a thousand years....or let's be fair and call it five hundred (to exclude the Matriarch stage).  We know Benezia only had one child, and the Batian Star Charts Merchant had two.  That seems to indicate that the Asari birthrate seems to be about 2 per generation which is barely replacement rate.  Now consider that each Asari generation is 200 years or so as opposed to the human generation of 20 years or the Salarian genertion of 15 or so years.  That means that for each Asari generation making two children, there have been TEN human generations making 2^10 children which is vastly greater (1024 children).

Bottom line.  In the time it take the Asari to generate two children humanity could breed over a thousand.  Far from assimlating the rest of the galaxy, the Asari especially given a wolfling race as agressive and fecund as humans (and only the Krogan are more adaptable than humans) are facing the loss of cultural identity as they are forced to assimate into the cultures of their father species....and the Asari defense for that has been essentially cultural isolation which isn't viable...and that is why the Asari Matriarch bartender is a bartender...she had the bad manners to say this.

-Polaris

#185
Sgt Stryker

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Golden Owl wrote...

111987 wrote...

Rachni.

From the Rachni Wars we know they are easily able to overwhelm the Asari and Salarians. With the Krogan under the influence of the genophage, nothing today would be able to stop the Rachni. They are too smart, too powerful, and too numerous (assuming the Rachni Queen is able to breed without interference).

The Geth might have a chance, but seeing as how they spend all their time building a megastructure, and not preparing for war like the Rachni are, I doubt they have the military strength to deal with potentially billions of Rachni (depending on when this conflict takes place).

Here's a thought, considering the Rachni acid like the Thresher Maw acid were able to pass through the Mako's outer defenses directly to the hull, would this also apply to the Geth?...Could possibly make the Geth fairly obsolete in a war against the Rachni even if the Geth did possess the Military might.


There's nothing too special about rachni and thresher maw acid - it just happens to travel below the speed threshold of kinetic barriers. If I were developing a defence against these attacks, I would either focus on developing armor that is resistant to this acid, or on better kinetic barriers that have a lower minimum speed threshold.

#186
HK01

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Okay guys, what the hell is this discussion about the asari? It makes little to no sense. Yes, the asari "prevent" some individuals of other species from producing offspring of their own species, but not that many, certainly not a sufficient percentage to stop the population growth of the other species. Turians, salarians, volus, etc still managed to increase their population size since meeting the asari, right? Then I don't see the problem.

#187
IanPolaris

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HK01 wrote...

Okay guys, what the hell is this discussion about the asari? It makes little to no sense. Yes, the asari "prevent" some individuals of other species from producing offspring of their own species, but not that many, certainly not a sufficient percentage to stop the population growth of the other species. Turians, salarians, volus, etc still managed to increase their population size since meeting the asari, right? Then I don't see the problem.


Indeed.  What a lot of people are forgetting about the Asari is their generation period is so damn long that their real reproductive rate is very low.  That means that any subtraction from a shorter lived species (like Turians, Salarians, or humans) is so small as to be neglible.  In the time it takes to make two Asari children, 1024 human children could be born.  I expect the other races are similiar except the Krogan (because of the Genophage).

-Polaris

#188
SkittlesKat96

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Well if the Krogan made clones or a cure for themselves then they could be pretty threatening. I don't know if they are the greatest threat though, I don't think its possible to tell.

EDIT: A lot of Asari hate here, did the Seboist, marshalleck, Saphra Deden, Dave and Zeel crew come past?

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 30 octobre 2011 - 08:52 .


#189
IanPolaris

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SkittlesKat96 wrote...

Well if the Krogan made clones or a cure for themselves then they could be pretty threatening. I don't know if they are the greatest threat though, I don't think its possible to tell.


If we take Wrex at his word, then there is something about the genophage that makes mass cloning Krogan nearly impossible.  From what I gather, the genophage creates fatal birth defects in most developing Krogan Zygotes after fertilization rather than reducing actual fertility rates.  We know that Warlord Okeer needed Collector technology to do even the limited amount of cloning he did to make Grunt,and Saren actually had to use Reaper tech to cure the genophage to make his army of cloned Krogan and even these were basically mindless.

-Polaris

#190
Barquiel

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Humans are clearly the greatest threat to peace and stability in the galaxy.

#191
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Barquiel wrote...

Humans are clearly the greatest threat to peace and stability in the galaxy.


Hardly. They're bringing law and order to the skyllian verge and attican traverse and maintaing order on the Citadel (and beyond) in the wake of the alien council's failure. The same Council allowed the geth to run rampant, the krogan to run rampant, the rachni, and the batarians.

#192
Ravensword

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It's pretty much over for the Batarians at this point. What threat they once posed is no more thanks to the Reapers.

#193
MassStorm

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Humanity unfortunately this race is well known for his natural stupidity(derived from his superiority complex), polluting planets, experimenting dangerous alien technologies, waging wars and causing continuous destruction in the system.

The problem with this race is that they instead of appearing brute savages like the Krogans or the Vorcha they are quite good in plotting, backroom politics and false diplomacy which makes them even more dangerous. A problem and a threat to be dealt........after the Reapers.

Modifié par MassStorm, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:46 .


#194
Sylvianus

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IanPolaris wrote...

I will agree that the Asari are effectively a parasitic race (genetically) but I strongly disagree that they are much of a threat.  Point in fact I feel a bit sorry for the Asari.  Talk to the Matriarch Bartender in Eternity and you find out why she is serving drinks instead of being an honored advisor on Thessia...and it's because she sees the future of her people and it isn't pretty.

What a lot of you are missing is that it's the gross reproduction rate per year that matters and not the overall birth numbers.  A lot of people afraid of the Asari are missing a few key points:

1.  They assume that if a person mates with an Asari, they don't mate with their own species.  We learn from Liara in ME1, that this assumption is generally false.  While it's true that some people do mate with Asari for the rest of their lives exclusively, most do not.  In fact many Asari like to have one night stands even for procreation.

2.  There is an assumption that the Asari are outbreeding other races both by taking out members of the gene pools (which is false...see point one) and by using them to breed more 'daughter Asari' at a rate unmatchable by other species.  Yet the available information we have indicates that this simply isn't so.  Consider Samara who seems pretty typical prior to her becoming a justicar.  She had all of three children and had them over the space of a thousand years....or let's be fair and call it five hundred (to exclude the Matriarch stage).  We know Benezia only had one child, and the Batian Star Charts Merchant had two.  That seems to indicate that the Asari birthrate seems to be about 2 per generation which is barely replacement rate.  Now consider that each Asari generation is 200 years or so as opposed to the human generation of 20 years or the Salarian genertion of 15 or so years.  That means that for each Asari generation making two children, there have been TEN human generations making 2^10 children which is vastly greater (1024 children).

Bottom line.  In the time it take the Asari to generate two children humanity could breed over a thousand.  Far from assimlating the rest of the galaxy, the Asari especially given a wolfling race as agressive and fecund as humans (and only the Krogan are more adaptable than humans) are facing the loss of cultural identity as they are forced to assimate into the cultures of their father species....and the Asari defense for that has been essentially cultural isolation which isn't viable...and that is why the Asari Matriarch bartender is a bartender...she had the bad manners to say this.

-Polaris

That was exactly my thoughts. A bit of logic and common sense it's good. What I see here is not rational, from a scientific perspective. The system of birth Asari is totally weak.

Sylvianus wrote....

Because they live a long time, they wait precisely a long time on the contrary of humans always in hurry with their short life expectancy.

Asari wait more than 150 years before they decide to have children. I don't remember when they become Matriarch, but it's a long long time.  Before they are only ladies. This is an extremely long time. For each birth of assimilation of other species, there would be much more with them during this time. For humans, I think you know already, it is very fast lol. We can't even decide sometimes."  Whoops, honey, I'm pregnant. All right. "

I even think that the Asari are not very numerous, as their armies. Because this system is so a lengthy process. The fastest system is still producing eggs as salarians or Rachni in my opinions.

For an asari baby assimilated, how many humans children born ?

It's interesting your views, because I always thought that the Asari was the people who had the least chance of having a large population and its assimilation was a way to deal with its genetic weakness.

And if Asari numbers will continue to climb, it wouldn't be sufficient at all to reduce the curve of the other species population  with a birth much more efficient and productive, besides in a very shorttime.


HK01 wrote...
Okay guys, what the hell is this discussion about the asari? It makes little to no sense. Yes, the asari "prevent" some individuals of other species from producing offspring of their own species, but not that many, certainly not a sufficient percentage to stop the population growth of the other species. Turians, salarians, volus, etc still managed to increase their population size since meeting the asari, right? Then I don't see the problem.


Thank you.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:09 .


#195
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Golden Owl wrote...

Obviously the Reapers are the greatest threat to every other species out there...but who's next in line as great threats to every other species and why?

Edit: A threat to all other species, not just humanity.



One legged space chickens.

#196
Guest_Rojahar_*

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Fiddles_stix wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Obviously the Reapers are the greatest threat to every other species out there...but who's next in line as great threats to every other species and why?

Edit: A threat to all other species, not just humanity.



One legged space chickens.


Cave Demons

Modifié par Rojahar, 30 octobre 2011 - 11:43 .


#197
Guest_Fiddles_stix_*

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Rojahar wrote...

Fiddles_stix wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Obviously the Reapers are the greatest threat to every other species out there...but who's next in line as great threats to every other species and why?

Edit: A threat to all other species, not just humanity.



One legged space chickens.


Cave Demons


At the end of the day we all know the ocean is the real threat. Squishy

#198
onelifecrisis

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Sylvianus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
But the Asari don't just mix races/species, etc... They take a DNA imprint from their partner to mix with their offsprings genetic code...the offspring isn't a mixed child, they are all 100% Asari.

Yes but wan can we do against that ? Nothing. Like many other things. Billions chinese, billions indians, billions people, despite the earth is threatened by overcrowding in a close future.

And that's not a genocide, they don't kill anyone, they feed their race, that's it. Humans aren't forced to be with them.

Re-post of my orginal points in regards to Asari:

"Asari:
1.) Encouraged to breed with those outside their own species...pure blood stigma.
2.) Attractive to all other species.
3.) Long life span...how many partners would one Asari have in a life time?
4.) Seem to already have the most substantial population...most of which look outside their species for partners.
5.) Breeding with Asari can only produce Asari.
Taking these points into account, I'm thinking they may eventually out breed every other species out there."

The Asari are not an immediate threat to all other species, but given the list above, in time they will become quite a threat...remember as more Asari are born, the more Asari will be looking outside their own species for partnering up and who knows how many partners that would include over an Asari's life time.

As for what to do about it....I haven't touched on that subject myself for a reason "Hot Topic"....I was merely putting forward observations in regards to Species threats.


I agree with all what you said. The report is good lol. Fair enough. That said, I think you overestimate their process. For me, it's rather more a weakness, related to the customs of their society, of course.

Because they live a long time, they wait precisely a long time on the contrary of humans always in hurry with their short life expectancy.

Asari wait more than 150 years before they decide to have children. I don't remember when they become Matriarch, but it's a long long time.  Before they are only ladies. This is an extremely long time. For each birth of assimilation of other species, there would be much more with them during this time. For humans, I think you know already, it is very fast lol. We can't even decide sometimes."  Whoops, honey, I'm pregnant. All right. "

I even think that the Asari are not very numerous, as their armies. Because this system is so a lengthy process. The fastest system is still producing eggs as salarians or Rachni in my opinions.

Also they are not only with humans and if they want as well ( because you need to fall in love and asari always choose carefully before to unit with someone, it could take many many years ) , but other races, which diversifies
their supplies.

For an asari baby assimilated, how many humans children born ?

It's interesting your views, because I always thought that the Asari was the people who had the least chance of having a large population and its assimilation was a way to deal with its genetic weakness.



I'm surprised it took until page 5 for someone to make this point. A shame it was almost completely ignored, except by Golden Owl who replied with "think very long-term".

I don't see how that's a counterpoint. The math is simple: 1 human generation = approx 20 years. 1 asari generation = approx 150 years. 150/20 = 7.5, so the Asari would need to have at least 7.5 times the number of children per generation than humans. (* see edit)

Some other points I want to make:

1) If the asari take other species literally to extinction (or even close) then they'll have nothing left to mate with but other Asari.
2) Nobody seems to have mentioned that the only reason the Salarians aren't out-breeding everyone like crazy is because they've chosen not to. If the Asari ever started become a threat to the Salarian race then the Salarians could just undo their genetic mod that makes them nearly all male (IIRC) and suddenly that 7.5 target the Asari faced for beating humans would look ridiculously small.
3) My sister had her first child recently, a boy. My own first child (also a son) will arrive in February (touch wood). You might say these things have started to give me some perspective that makes the asari domination of humans through reproduction seem incredibly unlikely, even if you ignore the math. I can totally see the attraction of jumping into bed with an Asari, but I can't really see how a human would rather raise alien children than human ones. Of course you could say that I'm thinking of the game in terms that are too literal, but if the alien races are metaphors (which I personally think they are) then the analogy made by some poster earlier in the thread (roughly that humans = white people and asari = brown people) does actually hold water after all.

Edit:
* Actually more than that when you factor in that the growth is exponential...

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 30 octobre 2011 - 12:41 .


#199
111987

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Sgt Stryker wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

111987 wrote...

Rachni.

From the Rachni Wars we know they are easily able to overwhelm the Asari and Salarians. With the Krogan under the influence of the genophage, nothing today would be able to stop the Rachni. They are too smart, too powerful, and too numerous (assuming the Rachni Queen is able to breed without interference).

The Geth might have a chance, but seeing as how they spend all their time building a megastructure, and not preparing for war like the Rachni are, I doubt they have the military strength to deal with potentially billions of Rachni (depending on when this conflict takes place).

Here's a thought, considering the Rachni acid like the Thresher Maw acid were able to pass through the Mako's outer defenses directly to the hull, would this also apply to the Geth?...Could possibly make the Geth fairly obsolete in a war against the Rachni even if the Geth did possess the Military might.


There's nothing too special about rachni and thresher maw acid - it just happens to travel below the speed threshold of kinetic barriers. If I were developing a defence against these attacks, I would either focus on developing armor that is resistant to this acid, or on better kinetic barriers that have a lower minimum speed threshold.


If that was possible, don't you think modern day armor/shielding would be resistant to those things?

The Rachni's acid gives them an enormous advantage over the other species. And since we've only fought feral Rachni, we don't know much about their military. Do they have weapons and armor and shielding too?

#200
Sylvianus

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111987 wrote...

 And since we've only fought feral Rachni, we don't know much about their military. Do they have weapons and armor and shielding too?

you can also fight the royal Rachni, who are the last defenders of the Queen, who only come out when the hive is really threatened.

They are very resistant, and they have very powerful biotic powers.

The mission where you must destroy their hive in M1 is absolutely difficult the first time with insanity mode, they come across  from everywhere, with incredible speed. I have great respect for the Krogan now lol.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:56 .