502 réponses à ce sujet

[Xeranx]

Sajuro wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

iakus wrote...

Laser Jim wrote...

No, Bioware! You can't change Ashley, stay true to her character!

Yes, Bioware! Please change Miranda, she just wasn't good enough.

In other words, Miranda was a terrible stereotype of video game women, don't turn Ash into one too?  I agree 

Yes, an independent and strong woman who still had emotional insecurities is a stereotypical video game woman, granted I never found the catsuit that appealling and I didn't like how she came down as "I'm too perfect Shepard" but thinking about it you could see how be engineered to be the ideal woman would **** with one's self image. Regardless, it seems hard to be a woman in video games, if you happen to cry then people hate you, if you are too sexy then people hate you, and if you dare question the protaganist, be prepared to get punched.

Miranda is not a strong woman or really, she's not a strong person, and she's definitely not independent.  Her reason for being bugs her to no end (as you acknowledged) that she wears a catsuit in efforts to own her looks.  She tries to sell herself (rightly) on the idea that  her looks have advantages, but really hates that she has them at all.  With the way she acts I can almost imagine that if she were to lose her position with nothing to fall back on, she'd have a hell of a time getting back up.  

A strong person wouldn't have those problems.  Most of their obstacles in making themselves better would be external.  Miranda's made it to what should be a prized position, but can't forget what she is.  Her issues are all, mostly, internal.  Jacob's words bring this to light: "She deserves a better man than I".  Jacob realizes that Miranda's issues are too great to deal with and he can't be the person she'd need him to be.

Look at Miranda then to her problems
Now back at Miranda, then her problems.
What do you see? I see a woman, who despite her problems, hasn't buckled under pressure and still manages to be successful despite having some serious issues. I don't think the measure of a strong person is if they have a problem with themselves or not but how they deal with what problems they do have. Miranda can't just leave her looks or past behind, if she stays back somewhere safe it would be just like she was with her father again, everytime she goes on a mission, every round she fires and everytime she uses Biotics, it's a huge "FU" to her father who tried to own her and Miranda shows that she can't be owned. What Miranda has is a version of the inferiority complex, thinking that somehow she hasn't earned what she has because of who she is and her past.

Is Miranda perfect? nope. Is she a strong woman who despite her issues has managed to make a life for herself and is trying to further it (her infertility is not helping)? Yep. Do I actually like her better than the Soldier who blames her station on the fact that her grandfather surrendered Shanx Shi despite her constantly wearing pink and white armor? Yep.

PS: I know plenty of people who would have a hell of a time getting back up if they were tossed out of high positions with nothing to their name.

My comment about strong people isn't about whether or not they're secure in themselves, but whether they're able to rise over obstacles that prevent them from progressing.  There are many insecure people in this world, but for whatever reason a lot of them have businesses, get up and speak in front of auditoriums, etc.  I'm very insecure about singing in public, but I've gotten on stage several times to perform.  Yes, it's weird, but it's a thing I have to get over.  Now I'm not saying I'm strong.  I have the capacity to be and I will be, but I'm not there yet.  And I'm secure enough to make that statement ironically enough.  

My comment on strong people, really, is that they push forward despite knowing their fears and limitations.  I'm a firm believer that a strong person acknowledges their shortcomings and either works through them or finds ways to work around them -- if they absolutely have to.  That means if you see a disabled person working a job that gets him or her a 5-figure salary, you or I can't possibly sit back working at a dept. store while thinking we're doing our best... unless you're management.

I don't see how her just using her biotics is an FU to her father.  Miranda's engineering is perfect for her station at Cerberus.  I don't remember if it was said, but when I thought about all the things she was engineerd to be I began thinking how it would be of use to her in a board room.  Her looks would give her an edge as it implies men would be more agreeable to her demands or more susceptible to any form of subtlety she chooses to employ.  Her biotics would make her psychically strong if she's not physically strong so she's not likely to be a push-over.  She's made smart enough to be shrewd and outmaneuver or outthink any rivals she may have.  It would be a very cruel joke if her father actually intended for her to infiltrate Cerberus.

As to whether or not Miranda is owned, not in the literal sense.  But she is owned figuratively.  Ask a survivor of any trauma.  When you can't shake what's been done to you, your captor or the event has you in its grip.  Any rape survivor will tell you that if you let the event stop you from forming connections with men, being comfortable doing routine tasks where men may be present, or just anything, the rapist wins.  And he'll always win the longer it takes to move on.

Modifié par Xeranx, 01 novembre 2011 - 05:47 .

[Tyko Brian]

Lawson is beautiful without her xtra tight jumpsuit! The idea's so ridiculous: I mean, would anyone dare to go 2 combat situations without xtra protective armor??? <_< & she's supposed 2 b a high ranking officer participating in numerous dangerous missions 4 Cerberus. The devs expect me 2 believe that she came out with minimal damage in ALL of them wearing the latex outfit!!

& besides if u think logically you'd realize that her dress sense does NOT match her character. Miranda has been portrayed as a professional, no-nonsense, and overly self-confident person. Why would she hang around 24/7 wearing a swimsuit posing as a supermodel? I always had the impression that after having such an emotional betrayal from her father, Miranda would become xtra cautious in relationships. But her dress up makes me feel that she's giving an open invitation to the galaxy at large! She always made me think that she would show the 'results' of her extensive genetic modification   ONLY to someone who earned her trust and love. Eye candy's such as this may boost up sales of games but WE DID NOT EXPECT THIS FROM BIOWARE!! Miranda is already a memorable character without this mumbo jumbo!

Modifié par Tyko Brian, 01 novembre 2011 - 10:56 .

[Tyko Brian]

"I was waiting for you to get dressed. Or does Cerberus really let you wh*r* around in that outfit?" -Enyala

One of my all-time favourite line in the ME universe! This shows how stupid the idea was to use Miranda as some kind of Cerberus Supermodel!

Modifié par Tyko Brian, 01 novembre 2011 - 07:20 .

[Arijharn]

Xeranx wrote...
Miranda is dependent on her employer.  At least that's what jumps out at me.  Her confidence comes from being on top, but her attitude suggests that she's probably a subpar taskmaster.  She asserts that she's Shepard's second-in-command when talking to Jack on the ship, but openly calls Jack a mistake when confronted by Jack.

To be honest, I think saying she's dependent on her employer (and in the context you made it) to be a pretty weak argument. I'm dependent on my employer too... he does, after all, allow me to continue (by paying me). All my employer asks for in return is for me to do my work, thusly so does Miranda.

I think the bigger issue with the whole interaction between Jack and Miranda is that they fray on each other personally but at the same time, I think that a person like Jack wouldn't necessarily 'respect' someone who allows her to walk all over them. However; I may be biased because mainly I don't like people like Jack (although not to the point that I've set out to kill her come SM). 

Xeranx wrote...
Miranda reports back to TIM constantly and TIM, himself, tells Shepard to make peace with whatever baggage may be lingering.  This is something Miranda should be reinforcing if Shepard's not doing it him or herself, but she doesn't.

I partially agree, however, I also think she doesn't simply because it would become redundant if you just sat through a briefing with TIM and because at the end of the day it's a game, and they don't for brevity's sake. I guess the flip side is that Cmdr. Shephard is professional enough to 'get it done.'

Xeranx wrote...
 It makes me think she was promoted up the chain partly for a reason unknown or one that can be guessed at, and partly for no other reason than she's genetically altered to be gifted which means there are things she can do.  If I had someone like that on my team I'd want to promote them up the ladder to keep them by my side.  If TIM is a master strategist or a strategist of any kind, that's what he'd be doing.

She was promoted up because she has statistically given good results within Cerberus ("technically demanding tasks"), and that even post Shephard's resurrection, the cell was still the Lazarus Cell i.e., Miranda's command. Given the fact that she 'successfully' managed the cell for 2 years beforehand and apparently Wilson's betrayal didn't rock the boat 'too much' (by whatever measurement system TIM uses to judge at least) obviously Miranda was deemed sufficiently able to continue in her role. 

Xeranx wrote...
Also, speaking of TIM, Miranda runs to the one group that she knows her father makes contributions to.  He doesn't make donations to Cord Hislop, but Cerberus itself.  And she uses the same organization to hide her sister if I remember correctly.  She's promoted several times over and receives a paycheck most likely.  I would think that if she truly wanted to be on her own she would go somewhere that has nothing to do with her father, but she doesn't.  I mean it would be one thing if she worked for Cereberus and found out later about her father's contributions to the organization, but...*shrug*

Considering we still don't know much about Cerberus' mechanisms for funding, I think this to be somewhat premature. In the end; Miranda joined because she agrees to Cerberus' ideals and because Cerberus is still a clandestine organisation. Unless Miranda's father has stronger links to Cerberus than even she realises; I think it's safer to presume that he, like seemingly everyone else in the galaxy not within the organisation, does not know how Cerberus works. As far as we know; Cerberus isn't her father's organisation.

Also; you'd think that the daughter of the 'richest man in the galaxy' would be otherwise pretty easy to  identify all things considered, and since when she left shots were fired... well I think it's obvious Miranda doesn't actually want to be found, therefore hiding in a secret organisation seems to make the most sense.

[MegaBadExample]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

She does have an awfully nice set of personality.

LOL I found this so funny.

[Xeranx]

Arijharn wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
Miranda is dependent on her employer.  At least that's what jumps out at me.  Her confidence comes from being on top, but her attitude suggests that she's probably a subpar taskmaster.  She asserts that she's Shepard's second-in-command when talking to Jack on the ship, but openly calls Jack a mistake when confronted by Jack.

To be honest, I think saying she's dependent on her employer (and in the context you made it) to be a pretty weak argument. I'm dependent on my employer too... he does, after all, allow me to continue (by paying me). All my employer asks for in return is for me to do my work, thusly so does Miranda.

I don't exactly mean it that way.  TIM is her employer, yes, but I'm implying (poorly) that TIM looks like a surrogate.  At least to me he does.  Miranda went from one megalomaniac to another.  

Arijharn wrote...
I think the bigger issue with the whole interaction between Jack and Miranda is that they fray on each other personally but at the same time, I think that a person like Jack wouldn't necessarily 'respect' someone who allows her to walk all over them. However; I may be biased because mainly I don't like people like Jack (although not to the point that I've set out to kill her come SM). 

Xeranx wrote...
Miranda reports back to TIM constantly and TIM, himself, tells Shepard to make peace with whatever baggage may be lingering.  This is something Miranda should be reinforcing if Shepard's not doing it him or herself, but she doesn't.

I partially agree, however, I also think she doesn't simply because it would become redundant if you just sat through a briefing with TIM and because at the end of the day it's a game, and they don't for brevity's sake. I guess the flip side is that Cmdr. Shephard is professional enough to 'get it done.'

Xeranx wrote...
 It makes me think she was promoted up the chain partly for a reason unknown or one that can be guessed at, and partly for no other reason than she's genetically altered to be gifted which means there are things she can do.  If I had someone like that on my team I'd want to promote them up the ladder to keep them by my side.  If TIM is a master strategist or a strategist of any kind, that's what he'd be doing.

She was promoted up because she has statistically given good results within Cerberus ("technically demanding tasks"), and that even post Shephard's resurrection, the cell was still the Lazarus Cell i.e., Miranda's command. Given the fact that she 'successfully' managed the cell for 2 years beforehand and apparently Wilson's betrayal didn't rock the boat 'too much' (by whatever measurement system TIM uses to judge at least) obviously Miranda was deemed sufficiently able to continue in her role. 

Xeranx wrote...
Also, speaking of TIM, Miranda runs to the one group that she knows her father makes contributions to.  He doesn't make donations to Cord Hislop, but Cerberus itself.  And she uses the same organization to hide her sister if I remember correctly.  She's promoted several times over and receives a paycheck most likely.  I would think that if she truly wanted to be on her own she would go somewhere that has nothing to do with her father, but she doesn't.  I mean it would be one thing if she worked for Cereberus and found out later about her father's contributions to the organization, but...*shrug*

Considering we still don't know much about Cerberus' mechanisms for funding, I think this to be somewhat premature. In the end; Miranda joined because she agrees to Cerberus' ideals and because Cerberus is still a clandestine organisation. Unless Miranda's father has stronger links to Cerberus than even she realises; I think it's safer to presume that he, like seemingly everyone else in the galaxy not within the organisation, does not know how Cerberus works. As far as we know; Cerberus isn't her father's organisation.

Also; you'd think that the daughter of the 'richest man in the galaxy' would be otherwise pretty easy to  identify all things considered, and since when she left shots were fired... well I think it's obvious Miranda doesn't actually want to be found, therefore hiding in a secret organisation seems to make the most sense.

1. It's fine if they get on each other's nerves, but Miranda should know better.  Odd that we are able to tell her that too depending on whose side we take in the confrontation.  If harmony on the ship is supposed to be the thing to help complete the mission then she's not completing one main aspect of the mission parameters.  In fact, she's doing her best to destroy the team from that angle.  She's 35 compared to Jack's 20-something (26?).  Almost a 10 year difference and she can't act better than a "kid"?  After that is when I really start losing respect for her.

2. Of course Miranda would give good results.  It's what she was bred for, but I can't believe that she was promoted solely based on that.  Being able to get close to TIM has to be a coveted aspect of working for Cerberus, and Miranda's right there able to offer her ideas on various topics and have them agreed with or denied.  

Everyone on the ship that beams about being hand-picked (Kelly, Gardner) displays some sense of honor at having been the one chosen.  If the head of a company picked you to work on a job from anyone else and you knew how important that guy was you'd gush about having the chance yourself...depending on your termperament of course (i.e. "I was just following orders").

So what this all means is that Miranda is an asset.  Unfortunately given her past, she is one that has to be cultivated.  Miranda more than likely feels that she's nothing but a collection of cells to her father whereas with TIM, she feels she's recognized for what she has to offer.  To a certain degree that is true, but TIM has to walk a fine line to reinforce a sense of independence in Miranda for her to be a better individual which leads to a sense of good will between herself and TIM.  Ironically that sounds like the same indoctrination Saren mentioned.  If TIM guides her hand too much she becomes useless.  However, if TIM gives Miranda the idea that she's actually affecting change on any project she's working for, it makes her more productive and she'll work harder to prove that she's worth any attention she gets.  That doesn't necessarily mean she's independent, but it's that illusion that helps.  

Or maybe I'm giving TIM too much credit and Miranda not enough.  Since Miranda's not a real person we can't see what she might do, but everything I've said is the vibe I'm getting.

3. I believe Miranda actually claims that her father makes donations to Cerberus.  I don't remember her saying he makes donations to any number of companies that serve as fronts for Cerberus, but you're right that my statement could be premature and Miranda's statement was probably done for expediency.

4. I don't think Miranda being the daughter of the richest man would mean she'd be easily recognizable.  Miranda says she is one of many or that she is the first one her father kept.  Given that and Oriana, I don't know if I can safely say that Miranda doesn't have an older sister out there who actually is working with her father in the same way Miranda's father would have wanted her to work with him.  So I'm unsure if Miranda is even known and then connected to her father.  Niket knew, but now he's dead.  Those that came to "retrieve" Oriana are dead as well.  So who knows.

Modifié par Xeranx, 01 novembre 2011 - 02:52 .

[Merchant2006]

BancsBubbl3 wrote...





Just felt like it  Images belong to Merchant2006

Haha, brilliant! I was thinking of doing this myself but I'm waaaaaaaaaay too lazy. *saves*

[tomorrowstation]

Nashiktal wrote...

The ass shots ruined my immersion. One minute talking about something semi important, next scene ASS SHOT.

That was annoying.

With all due respect, your immersion needs heavier armor.

[Hathur]

tomorrowstation wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

The ass shots ruined my immersion. One minute talking about something semi important, next scene ASS SHOT.

That was annoying.

With all due respect, your immersion needs heavier armor.

I suspect many guys were plenty immersed when that scene showed up.... just that they were immersed in something entirely other than the game at the moment.... :innocent:

[Ravensword]

Hathur wrote...

tomorrowstation wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

The ass shots ruined my immersion. One minute talking about something semi important, next scene ASS SHOT.

That was annoying.

With all due respect, your immersion needs heavier armor.

I suspect many guys were plenty immersed when that scene showed up.... just that they were immersed in something entirely other than the game at the moment.... :innocent:

Speak for yourself. The only thing I was immersed in was insulted intelligence.

[Hathur]

Ravensword wrote...
Speak for yourself. The only thing I was immersed in was insulted intelligence.

Well being a straight female my initial reaction was to :eyeroll: and think to myself "Really, devs? Not even a veiled attempt at subtlety here, huh? Just gonna stick her bum infront of the camera like that, eh?".... not one to be attracted to women personally so I just sighed tiredly and averted my eyes somewhat until the offending derier was no longer staring me in the face. 

Similar reaction I suspect to how most straight guys might react to "bulge" shots of other males 

[Labrev]

Ravensword wrote...

Hathur wrote...

tomorrowstation wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

The ass shots ruined my immersion. One minute talking about something semi important, next scene ASS SHOT.

That was annoying.

With all due respect, your immersion needs heavier armor.

I suspect many guys were plenty immersed when that scene showed up.... just that they were immersed in something entirely other than the game at the moment.... :innocent:

Speak for yourself. The only thing I was immersed in was insulted intelligence.

x2. I love voluptuous women as much as the next guy, but that was just obnoxous.

[Ravensword]

Hathur wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
Speak for yourself. The only thing I was immersed in was insulted intelligence.

Well being a straight female my initial reaction was to :eyeroll: and think to myself "Really, devs? Not even a veiled attempt at subtlety here, huh? Just gonna stick her bum infront of the camera like that, eh?".... not one to be attracted to women personally so I just sighed tiredly and averted my eyes somewhat until the offending derier was no longer staring me in the face. 

Similar reaction I suspect to how most straight guys might react to "bulge" shots of other males 

Well, it wouldn't have been so bad if the devs did it right. There's nothing wrong w/ a little T&A here and there and , as you said, w/ subtlety, but in Miranda's case it was everywhere. Not only that, I'm pretty sure that that snug catsuit is not proper attire for an officer. Keneth Donnelly is the only person who seems to hint at this, humorously of course.

Bulge shots? You're much more likely to see T&A than bulge in video games. Did you notice any?

Modifié par Ravensword, 01 novembre 2011 - 02:06 .

[Hathur]

Ravensword wrote...

Bulge shots? You're much more likely to see T&A than bulge in video games. Did you notice any?

Can't say that I did, though I would have been annoyed had there been as I'm not a fan of attempting to appeal to the lowest common denominator... I guess I like characters to be sexy in a more classy way.... like Garrus  (ok his awkwardness helped make him adorable too... but he required no juvenile camera angles to make him sexy & appealing in his own weird way).

Though I do recall at least 1 ass shot of Jacob, which I found almost equally as :eyeroll: worthy as Miranda's "asset" scene.

Maybe I'm just not an "ass" kind of girl or something 

[Sgt Stryker]

Hathur wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
Speak for yourself. The only thing I was immersed in was insulted intelligence.

Well being a straight female my initial reaction was to :eyeroll: and think to myself "Really, devs? Not even a veiled attempt at subtlety here, huh? Just gonna stick her bum infront of the camera like that, eh?"

Funny, despite being a straight male, I had a similar reaction.

[Hathur]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Funny, despite being a straight male, I had a similar reaction.

Fair enough - didn't mean to paint all men with the same brush... was just poking at little fun is all 

Modifié par Hathur, 01 novembre 2011 - 02:24 .

[Xeranx]

Ravensword wrote...

Hathur wrote...

I suspect many guys were plenty immersed when that scene showed up.... just that they were immersed in something entirely other than the game at the moment.... :innocent:

Speak for yourself. The only thing I was immersed in was insulted intelligence.

Before someone draws attention to it for the wrong reasons I will highlight the fact that you made this response while your sig features a banner that focuses on Kasumi's backside (which with the suit on does look nice), and connect it to your later response in saying: many straight guys will notice stuff like this.  The thing is we will seek it out.  We don't need help finding what we want to see on our own.  If it's what we're looking to see in the first place that is.

Throwing it in our faces, however, implies that we think of nothing else which goes to imply that guys, for the most part, are stupid.  That is as demeaning as reducing any woman to her body parts because in doing so, you're reducing a man down to his sex drive.  I'm not going to discuss to what degrees a woman can be demeaned more than a man or vice-versa as it's all relative.  We're built differently and feel differently when faced with various things that imply our brain is in our pants.

[Ravensword]

Hathur wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Bulge shots? You're much more likely to see T&A than bulge in video games. Did you notice any?

Can't say that I did, though I would have been annoyed had there been as I'm not a fan of attempting to appeal to the lowest common denominator... I guess I like characters to be sexy in a more classy way.... like Garrus  (ok his awkwardness helped make him adorable too... but he required no juvenile camera angles to make him sexy & appealing in his own weird way).

Though I do recall at least 1 ass shot of Jacob, which I found almost equally as :eyeroll: worthy as Miranda's "asset" scene.

Maybe I'm just not an "ass" kind of girl or something 

Yes, that does make the Garrus romance compelling. He was nervous but never uncomfortable around Shepard.

I missed the Jacob ass shot. Though if he was wearing Miranda's outfit and the devs employed more of those infamous low camera angles. You know, I think Jacob was wearing the male version of Miranda's outfit.

[AdmiralCheez]

Xeranx wrote...

Before someone draws attention to it for the wrong reasons I will highlight the fact that you made this response while your sig features a banner that focuses on Kasumi's backside (which with the suit on does look nice), and connect it to your later response in saying: many straight guys will notice stuff like this.  The thing is we will seek it out.  We don't need help finding what we want to see on our own.  If it's what we're looking to see in the first place that is.

Throwing it in our faces, however, implies that we think of nothing else which goes to imply that guys, for the most part, are stupid.  That is as demeaning as reducing any woman to her body parts because in doing so, you're reducing a man down to his sex drive.  I'm not going to discuss to what degrees a woman can be demeaned more than a man or vice-versa as it's all relative.  We're built differently and feel differently when faced with various things that imply our brain is in our pants.

As a lover of shapely buttocks, I agree.  If there is a nice ass to be gazed upon, I would like to gaze upon it in my own time.  Having it shoved in my face is obnoxious and insulting.

[Ravensword]

Xeranx wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Hathur wrote...

I suspect many guys were plenty immersed when that scene showed up.... just that they were immersed in something entirely other than the game at the moment.... :innocent:

Speak for yourself. The only thing I was immersed in was insulted intelligence.

Before someone draws attention to it for the wrong reasons I will highlight the fact that you made this response while your sig features a banner that focuses on Kasumi's backside (which with the suit on does look nice), and connect it to your later response in saying: many straight guys will notice stuff like this.  The thing is we will seek it out.  We don't need help finding what we want to see on our own.  If it's what we're looking to see in the first place that is.

Throwing it in our faces, however, implies that we think of nothing else which goes to imply that guys, for the most part, are stupid.  That is as demeaning as reducing any woman to her body parts because in doing so, you're reducing a man down to his sex drive.  I'm not going to discuss to what degrees a woman can be demeaned more than a man or vice-versa as it's all relative.  We're built differently and feel differently when faced with various things that imply our brain is in our pants.

Yes, I'm aware of my sig and the message that it may or may not be sending. Anyone that calls attention to it and calls me out on it and totally ignores my point would be committing an ad hominem. Also, to the devs credit, at least there weren't any blatant shots that focus on Kasumi's ass.

Really there's nothing wrong w/ Miranda having prominent T&A but the frequent camera angles, in which Miranda's ass is the subject, is a bridge too far. I agree that we can find it on our own. It's not too hard.

[Xeranx]

People would probably make the comment anyway (and probably more so now that I said something about it). I was just trying to get ahead of it. Just in case.

[naledgeborn]

BSN I am disappoint. I come in this thread expecting concept/fan art and all I get is a love/hate thread. SMH

[Ravensword]

naledgeborn wrote...

BSN I am disappoint. I come in this thread expecting concept/fan art and all I get is a love/hate thread. SMH

You asked and now i'm delivering.

This is a very popular pic. Enjoy!

Modifié par Ravensword, 01 novembre 2011 - 03:18 .

[DiebytheSword]

Ravensword wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

BSN I am disappoint. I come in this thread expecting concept/fan art and all I get is a love/hate thread. SMH

You asked and now i'm delivering.

This is a very popular pic. Enjoy!

It'd be valid 60-70 sci fi if not for the breast being shoved into view.  I demand that Shep be treated as the smart hair metal man that he is, and not just a lump of flesh!

[Ravensword]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

BSN I am disappoint. I come in this thread expecting concept/fan art and all I get is a love/hate thread. SMH

You asked and now i'm delivering.

This is a very popular pic. Enjoy!

It'd be valid 60-70 sci fi if not for the breast being shoved into view.  I demand that Shep be treated as the smart hair metal man that he is, and not just a lump of flesh!

Hah! That's a good one. Maybe Hair Metal Shep will become a meme, but actually, it's supposed to be Miranda being portrayed by Robert Carlyle.