384 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Lol S_F don't even get us started ... this would just get this thread locked.

[whykikyouwhy]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
See this?

Experience the epic sequel to the 2009 Game of the Year from the critically acclaimed makers of Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2. You are one of the few who escaped the destruction of your home. Now, forced to fight for survival in an ever-changing world, you must gather the deadliest of allies, amass fame and fortune, and seal your place in history. This is the story of how the world changed forever. The legend of your Rise to Power begins now.

Key Features:
Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.

Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.

Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.

Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.

Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

This is what BioWare wrote at  http://dragonage.bioware.com/da2/

Did they write Marian or Gerrad Hawke there?  Did they write Cloude Strife, Michael Thronton, Ezio, Sheppard  or Geralt there? Nope. They write YOU. They tell you to play AS Hawke. They tell you that you are Hawke. Not your toys/cartoons are called Hawke.  There you go. Just imagine you live in DA 2 world.

But forget it. You can't. The perceptions are all mess up since it's a story being told by others and drive by the Seeker.  

I think there are quite a number of RPGs that advertise using the "you" pronoun. Simply because the expectation is that you, the player, will don the role of the character for the time that you are playing. Not necessarily making a character that is you, the person in RL - although you can inject mood, motivation, etc into your character, or create the appropriate back story.

The new Legend of Zelda game has, in some of its trailers and cinematics, this line: "A legend that will be forged by your own hand." Is that me, the player? or is that me, playing Link? I know I'm going to play Link, and while I know some of Link's motivations (because I've invested in that franchise), I still don the mantle of that character and don't feel as though I lose out on role-playing.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lol S_F don't even get us started ... this would just get this thread locked.

Yeah I know, AlexXIV. I never want to mention this but 3 posters already came and post how they role-play as if that's the only way to role-play. To be honest we are just referring ways to role-play and I personally think there is nothing wrong with whatever ways you choose to adapt. The issue with OP, is it's hard to role-play any character. That's the issue. 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I think there are quite a number of RPGs that advertise using the "you" pronoun. Simply because the expectation is that you, the player, will don the role of the character for the time that you are playing. Not necessarily making a character that is you, the person in RL - although you can inject mood, motivation, etc into your character, or create the appropriate back story.

The new Legend of Zelda game has, in some of its trailers and cinematics, this line: "A legend that will be forged by your own hand." Is that me, the player? or is that me, playing Link? I know I'm going to play Link, and while I know some of Link's motivations (because I've invested in that franchise), I still don the mantle of that character and don't feel as though I lose out on role-playing.

Which is why I strictly follow the school of thought from D&D or PnP system. I don't agree with the New Legend of Zelda's concept. But as I said, whatever ways we choose to adopt our roleplaying method, I'm fine with it as long as the game doesn;t seperate me from the character that I want to be or make. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 06 novembre 2011 - 02:11 .

[jbrand2002uk]

TBH your just as constricted in DAO its just buried under the myriad lines of text and the over-rated "origins" DA2 is just harder to RP if your narrow minded and inflexible

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

TBH your just as constricted in DAO its just buried under the myriad lines of text and the over-rated "origins" DA2 is just harder to RP if your narrow minded and inflexible

LoL! I being narrow minded and inflexible? If I am, then I wouldn't have played it for 9 times; 3 incomplete and 6 completed playthroughs. I would have just threw it to dustbin within 15 minutes just like I did with Assasin's Creeds and Alpha Protocol. ( Nearly thrash ME 2 but I have great respect for BioWare, due to NeverWinter Nights, so I force myself to complete it once ) And because I have completed DA2 6 times, I have think thoroughly enough about the game. DA 2 is labelled as RPG. It's key features is marketed as you as the character. And if you follow up Mike Laidlaw's demo on BioTV before the release, he refer "You" the player as the character. In fact, I did ask for anyone to question Mike Laidlaw, how much this "You" actually represent the player. I was troubled by how Hawke response through dialogue wheel. Someone  answered that you can personalize Hawke since it provides 3 different responses. If you don't believe me, dig out BioTV that show Mike Laidlaw used Female Hawke during his demo and listen carefully as he address Hawke as "You." That precisely what I did. Playing Hawke as me.  

But it's obvious I can't do that. The narration doesn't allow that. So I tried to create Alistair-like character and it's end up Hawke sound weird due to voice tones..... OK, Fine. Then I'll just have to constantly pick subtle or sarcastic tones and hope to make my own story since I cant make my own character. And you know what? The story leads to path I don't want it to be in almost every single damn choices that I've made. I can't play self insert character. I can't make Alistair-like character. I can't shape the story the way I shape Origins story because every decision I made end up in a way I don't want it to be. I can't ask Merril about Mahariel because she is one dimensional character who only speaks when she wants me to do her quest. So what can I do beside combat? You tell me.

I've played a lot of non-RPG and RPG but I've never felt so completely disoriented and frustrated like DA 2. 
 Heck I can RP Paradox strategy games like Heart of Iron 3 as a nation like this:



Even game like The Sims Medieval allow so much freedom for me to create a character and a story of my own. And it's not even label as an RPG. See this character creation?

It even allow me to make a story of my own through series of quests that progressively branch out into different outcomes + lots of dialogue choices ( gibberish sim language ) that actually mattered. 

And yet an RPG like DA2 insist everything must be limited? You tell me why..

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 06 novembre 2011 - 08:24 .

[jbrand2002uk]

Your response shows exactly what has put many people off playing an RPG for many years, Too much Choice while some people like yourself clearly enjoy being anal over every minor detail most people don't, its seems you expected to be able to tailor every little detail including the Dialogue to what you personally expected but this is impossible as it was not you who wrote the script and as long as games are made to appeal to a cross section of people someone will always be disappointed.

The whole point of being narrow minded and inflexible is that what your wanting is outside the confines of whats accessible in the game of any game for that matter I have played DAO and its equally as confined its just hidden better under a myriad of text clicking and a choice of 3 species each with multiple classes and considering how bad the combat was in DAO and the sheer amount of text its not really a RPG but a interactive digital book and the only real difference in the sims games are that they offer a voice pitch slider as the star signs do bugger all

[Tsuga C]

^Nice run-ons. 

Modifié par Tsuga C, 06 novembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...
  
Your response shows exactly what has put many people off playing an RPG for many years, Too much Choice while some people like yourself clearly enjoy being anal over every minor detail most people don't, its seems you expected to be able to tailor every little detail including the Dialogue to what you personally expected but this is impossible as it was not you who wrote the script and as long as games are made to appeal to a cross section of people someone will always be disappointed.

That's precisely why a toolset or construction kit is needed. The vanilla campaign can be as sh*t as Sonic Chronicles and it won't bother me because I can always tailor it. Those who don't enjoy so much details can stick to vanilla while those that like varieties can create their own campaign like Neverwinter Nights user campaigns. DA DLC don't cut in. There are too few and far in between to keep people interest. TES offer Construction Kit. Neverwinter Nights offer Aurora Toolset. Paradox support fully moddable campaign. The Sims offer a lot of customization and choices since The Sims 1. And DA2? What does this game has? One story, one character one playthorugh. Is that it? For the cost of $60?

jbrand2002uk wrote...


The whole point of being narrow minded and inflexible is that what your wanting is outside the confines of whats accessible in the game of any game for that matter I have played DAO and its equally as confined its just hidden better under a myriad of text clicking and a choice of 3 species each with multiple classes and considering how bad the combat was in DAO and the sheer amount of text its not really a RPG but a interactive digital book and the only real difference in the sims games are that they offer a voice pitch slider as the star signs do bugger all

DAO is not prefect but it has more replayability value. Not in term of origins only but how you can made different stories and character on each playthroughs. My first warden wasn't even a male to be my self inserted character. And still I can picture what if my GF played as Cousland. Hawke on the other hand? If he's not a diplomatic two goody shoes character, he's a sarcastic happy-go-lucky clown and a two good shoes character.  

[jbrand2002uk]

Well fingers crossed maybe a toolset will come out after the last DLC is released though i wont be crossing my fingers because:
a) I like the game the way it is
crossing my fingers makes me fart and you dont want to be around when i do that, because mine have to be pre empted with a gas mask and an air raid siren

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

TBH your just as constricted in DAO its just buried under the myriad lines of text and the over-rated "origins" DA2 is just harder to RP if your narrow minded and inflexible

I'll regard your opinion as to the mental state of others with exactly the weight your skill with the English language lends it.  

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 06 novembre 2011 - 10:18 .

[jbrand2002uk]

After years of perfectly punctuated English I just cant be arsed anymore in particular with this sites spellchecker being in inferior American-English

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

After years of perfectly punctuated English I just cant be arsed anymore in particular with this sites spellchecker being in inferior American-English

Fine, then, but for those posts where you "can't be arsed", I would suggest not openly questioning the mental capabilities of other posters at the same time.

[jbrand2002uk]

the narrow minded and inflexible was in regard to a large number of people attempting to play DA2 as if it were DAO the reason i enjoy DA2 is because i play it differently with a different mindset and different expectations to DAO

[AlexXIV]

And narrow minded people are those who expect everyone to share their opinion? Welcome to the club then.

[Phaedros]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

the narrow minded and inflexible was in regard to a large number of people attempting to play DA2 as if it were DAO the reason i enjoy DA2 is because i play it differently with a different mindset and different expectations to DAO

that's easy

it is a different game that appeals to different players

just not the ones it started out as

narrow minded calls to mind pots and kettles again

ever watched a movie called 'Vanishing Point"   ?

[Melca36]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Well fingers crossed maybe a toolset will come out after the last DLC is released though i wont be crossing my fingers because:
a) I like the game the way it is
crossing my fingers makes me fart and you dont want to be around when i do that, because mine have to be pre empted with a gas mask and an air raid siren

Modding has been going on for years. I think its insulting you are disregarding it. People put a lot of hard work into it because they LOVE the game.

Or are they only allowed to love the game your way??? <_<

You know I predict you are going to be the one who will whining when DA:3 comes out.

They already promised character customization again. They're consider bringing back stealth and want to try out gaming elements to bring back the the fans who want to do more than just KILL.

You're probably mad, they are listening to feedback. You probably scream everytime a developer puts a sticky for fan feedback.

I bet you even went into a fit when the developers said they were going to combine the elements of both games to make DA:3 even better.

[Melca36]

Phaedros wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

the narrow minded and inflexible was in regard to a large number of people attempting to play DA2 as if it were DAO the reason i enjoy DA2 is because i play it differently with a different mindset and different expectations to DAO

that's easy

it is a different game that appeals to different players

just not the ones it started out as

narrow minded calls to mind pots and kettles again

ever watched a movie called 'Vanishing Point"   ?

I think he's too young to know what that film is.

[Killjoy Cutter]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

the narrow minded and inflexible was in regard to a large number of people attempting to play DA2 as if it were DAO the reason i enjoy DA2 is because i play it differently with a different mindset and different expectations to DAO

How silly of them to pick up a sequel and expect it to be something like the original game...  {/sarcasm}

[Melca36]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

TBH your just as constricted in DAO its just buried under the myriad lines of text and the over-rated "origins" DA2 is just harder to RP if your narrow minded and inflexible

I thought you promised awhile back that you would stop bashing Origins and that you would understand that not everybody is going to share your opinion.

[Melca36]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

the narrow minded and inflexible was in regard to a large number of people attempting to play DA2 as if it were DAO the reason i enjoy DA2 is because i play it differently with a different mindset and different expectations to DAO

How silly of them to pick up a sequel and expect it to be something like the original game...  {/sarcasm}

I think we should just ignore him. He's promised time and again to ignore posts he doesn't agree with.

He probably pitches a fit everytime the developers want feedback from the fans and like I said before... he will be the first one to whine when DA:3 comes out.

[Gibb_Shepard]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

TBH your just as constricted in DAO its just buried under the myriad lines of text and the over-rated "origins" DA2 is just harder to RP if your narrow minded and inflexible

Bull****. 

The fact that you mentioned one of the biggest aspects of roleplaying as being a con speaks loads on what you actually know. The more text or dialogue choices you have, the easier the roleplay. 

Anyway. this isn't a "DAO did it better/ worse thread". That DAO did roleplaying far better is beside the point; the point is is that DA2 did it far worse than any RPG in recent years.

[TheRealJayDee]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

the narrow minded and inflexible was in regard to a large number of people attempting to play DA2 as if it were DAO the reason i enjoy DA2 is because i play it differently with a different mindset and different expectations to DAO

How silly of them to pick up a sequel and expect it to be something like the original game...  {/sarcasm}

/signed

Making a sequel with the fans of the (very successful) previous game in mind is not a bad idea. I had the most fun with DA2 when I disconnected the experience from my understanding of what Dragon Age should feel like, which was based solely on the first game. I'm not afraid of change, but angry at change for the sake of change.

[Sepewrath]

lol people are whining about not being able to be an ultra specific character, no game allows that. And yes that includes Origins, the lack of a voice may have allowed you to imagine, the role you thought of, because line delivery and everything happens in your head. But in game, it didn't actually happen.

[tmp7704]

Sepewrath wrote...

lol people are whining about not being able to be an ultra specific character, no game allows that. And yes that includes Origins, the lack of a voice may have allowed you to imagine, the role you thought of, because line delivery and everything happens in your head. But in game, it didn't actually happen.

The OPs complaint is actually, the VA delivery in DA2 is over-the-top, which creates an unnecessary dissonance when trying to use more than a single conversation tone. (or even the single tone, if you aren't into the Large Ham delivery)

That means the complaint doesn't include DAO, because lacking the VA entirely it can't be said the delivery is overdone, obv.

Heck, it doesn't even include many games which do have the voiced main character.

Modifié par tmp7704, 07 novembre 2011 - 06:02 .