384 réponses à ce sujet

[Sepewrath]

Like I said, you could imagine, whatever you wanted in Origins, but the character didn't actually do anything. They would give you five options in Origins and in many cases, it didn't even cover the nice, rude, funny thing. Many times they were all saying the same thing, with the same tone. But since the character doesn't actually say a thing, you can imagine delivery any way you want. But that is all in your head, it would be no different than if you put this game on mute.

[tmp7704]

Sepewrath wrote...

But since the character doesn't actually say a thing, you can imagine delivery any way you want.

Yes, which is why such game isn't affected by being saddled with a delivery you aren't happy with. Which was the OP's complaint.

In other words, a silent line of dialogue in DAO can have certain intent assigned to it by the writer (let's say for example "angry, threatening") and the NPC who hears that line will have a matching reaction. But how exactly the "angry, threatening" line sounds is left to the player's discretion because it never gets voiced. So the character can be imagined to either growl softly, or scream his/her head off, or whatever happens to match the player's idea for their character's nature.

Modifié par tmp7704, 07 novembre 2011 - 06:37 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Sepewrath wrote...

Like I said, you could imagine, whatever you wanted in Origins, but the character didn't actually do anything. They would give you five options in Origins and in many cases, it didn't even cover the nice, rude, funny thing. Many times they were all saying the same thing, with the same tone. But since the character doesn't actually say a thing, you can imagine delivery any way you want. But that is all in your head, it would be no different than if you put this game on mute.

No, you could imagine the tone of delivery. To some people, that's what matters. To preempt the argument on NPC reactions in terms of tone, the way the NPC receives the comment isn't necessarily the way the PC intended and unless you were playing a character who intentionally warps the meaning of each dialog line (s)he says, then the issue of completely misunderstanding only comes up a few times during the entire playthrough. Which is within the realm of plausibility.

Here's another example:



"Yet you don't sound very reassured."
"Yet you don't sound very reassured."
"Yet you don't sound... very reassured."

None of which are distinct enough in tone or intent so as to require a different NPC reaction.

Dragon Age 2 with a voice, removes that ambiguity. Now, whether the trade-off is worth it is debatable, but it's that level of control (even if imaginary) which is lost in voicing a protagonist and that's something people feel discouraged by.

Personally, I'm ambivalent on prinicple, I prefer a silent protagonist but I like voiced ones if done well.. as for Dragon Age 2...

tmp7704 wrote...
The OPs complaint is actually, the VA delivery in DA2 is over-the-top, which creates an unnecessary dissonance when trying to use more than a single conversation tone. (or even the single tone, if you aren't into the Large Ham delivery)

That means the complaint doesn't include DAO, because lacking the VA entirely it can't be said the delivery is overdone, obv.

Heck, it doesn't even include many games which do have the voiced main character.

This is also a big part of the problem imo and I believe the heart of the OP's problem. Other games that include the voice don't feel so OTT in delivery.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 07 novembre 2011 - 06:39 .

[AlexXIV]

It would be good to have at least one neutral option that signals that the protagonist does not care about this point. What bothered me in both games (DA:O and DA2) was that sometimes your character gets to chose of 3 (or more) option which all assume that you care about this topic or find it remotely interesting. Then I would prefer the option to say yeah whatever, let's move to something more interesting. Or just (remain silent).

[jbrand2002uk]

Actually I do know Vanishing point Kowalski attempts to drives across america in a dodge challenger to deliver bootlegged beer within a time limit while avoiding the state authorities along the way,finishing with him apparently plowing it into 2 bulldozers on the state line, fueling a whole debate over whether or not he was actually in the car and therefore died or didnt.

My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

[jbrand2002uk]

I always wondered if the Warden was a mutant telepath since he seems to be able to have a conversation without his lips moving

[tmp7704]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I always wondered if the Warden was a mutant telepath since he seems to be able to have a conversation without his lips moving

Did you also wonder if everyone was a mutant, period, because it seems they're able to live without ever eating anything?

[DreGregoire]

tmp7704 wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I always wondered if the Warden was a mutant telepath since he seems to be able to have a conversation without his lips moving

Did you also wonder if everyone was a mutant, period, because it seems they're able to live without ever eating anything?

Just Great! Now I have the urge to write eatting food fanfiction! Thanks ever so much. LOL!

But seriously, most of the time you don't even see your pc's face in DAO and I was used to the pc being that way.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 07 novembre 2011 - 05:44 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I always wondered if the Warden was a mutant telepath since he seems to be able to have a conversation without his lips moving

Why would you assume he did that.  That portion of the conversation wasn't modelled within the game, so your belief that his lips didn't move is simply your invention.

That you don't see something happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  There might be a rhinoceros in the room (Bertrand Russell).

[Nyeppy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...
My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

Yeah, those silly people thinking that Dragon Age 2 is similar to Dragon Age 1. It's almost like they think the '2' meant it's some kind of sequel or something. Silly, silly people.

[Sylvius the Mad]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

I play every game the same way, regardless of genre.  The extent to which the game accommodates this roleplaying-first approach, in my opinion, determines its quality.

I roleplay strategy games.  I roleplay racing games.  I roleplay sports games.

I roleplay.

[Addai]

jbrand2002uk wrote...
My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

I agree, it does help to think of this as a completely different game rather than a sequel, but that doesn't lessen the disgruntled-ness.  It's just a reminder that DA2 was not a worthy sequel to Origins.

[KilrB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

I play every game the same way, regardless of genre.  The extent to which the game accommodates this roleplaying-first approach, in my opinion, determines its quality.

I roleplay strategy games.  I roleplay racing games.  I roleplay sports games.

I roleplay.

Exactly!

Every game is a role-playing game for me.

RPG, FPS, RTS, Strategy, etc.

The PC is me, not vice-versa.

The PC does what I would do, not what I imagine they would do.

That is the reason I play, and when a game makes it nigh impossible to do so it is a disappointment.

All the more so when that game claims to be an rpg.

[Melca36]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Actually I do know Vanishing point Kowalski attempts to drives across america in a dodge challenger to deliver bootlegged beer within a time limit while avoiding the state authorities along the way,finishing with him apparently plowing it into 2 bulldozers on the state line, fueling a whole debate over whether or not he was actually in the car and therefore died or didnt.

My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

You need to let it go and try to accept the fact that not everybody is going to play like you play ir agree with your  thoughts.

I didnt hate DA:2. It was a fun game for what it offered but it was a rushed game and it shows in the quality. Even the developers have admitted it by making those GREAT dlcs which are better than the actual core game.

And you need to stop bashing people who prefer Origins. That is not helping you get your point acrorss.

I still think When DA:3 comes out and it has more elements from Origins...(The Developers did say the next game would be a better combination of the two) I predict you will be the first one complaining.

[Melca36]

Addai67 wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...
My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

I agree, it does help to think of this as a completely different game rather than a sequel, but that doesn't lessen the disgruntled-ness.  It's just a reminder that DA2 was not a worthy sequel to Origins.

Sequels should honor the original or at least be better than the original.

Fallout New Vegas was better than Fallout 3. But maybe my standards were too high.

Had DA:2 not been rushed it would have been a better game. I can see how much time and effort it took with making Legacy despite its few flaws. I just wish the game had been that way

[jbrand2002uk]

Even in DAO the "youness" of the PC is still confined within the limitations of the script the only way the PC can ever truly be "you" is if You wrote the script yourself.

Even so the biggest mistake I have seen is DA2 being reviewed or criticized based on the standards of an RPG and i'm sorry to disappoint but regardless of what the marketing said its easy to tell withing 20 secs of playing the demo that DA2 clearly isnt an RPG a la DAO therefore comparing DA2 to DAO is not a valid comparison sure you play a role as you do in any game but the priorities are totally different.

If anything DA2 is closer to Viking Battle for Asgard or at a stretch Star Wars the Force Unleashed in that they are hack and slash action games with very light RPG elements EG being able to customize your PC's look, weapons etc. And yes i have heard the critics standard defence that calling it Dragon Age 2 and marketing it as a sequel means thats is is a sequel and therefore can be compared fairly to its predecessor.

Which is ridiculous at best that would be like me saying Star Wars Republic Commando can be compared to Star Wars Rogue Squadron because they both have Star Wars in the title the former is a FPS the latter a space combat shooter totally different types of game with totally different emphasises.

It amazes me that so many people took the "hype" and "marketing" as a given this has been going on since humans 1st started selling products hundreds if not thousands of years ago and is nothing new and surely anyone old enough to be playing videogames should have cottoned onto this by now.

Put it this way people If we all were stood on the viewing platform of the empire state building or Big Ben in London and i said to all of you "Its ok to jump off without a safety rope or a parachute you wont die when you hit the ground because the grounds is made of fluffy pink soft marshmallows, would you jump on blind faith or get a second opinion? Just because the marketing tells you it is so does not mean that it is.

[jbrand2002uk]

Melca36 wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Actually I do know Vanishing point Kowalski attempts to drives across america in a dodge challenger to deliver bootlegged beer within a time limit while avoiding the state authorities along the way,finishing with him apparently plowing it into 2 bulldozers on the state line, fueling a whole debate over whether or not he was actually in the car and therefore died or didnt.

My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

You need to let it go and try to accept the fact that not everybody is going to play like you play ir agree with your  thoughts.

I didnt hate DA:2. It was a fun game for what it offered but it was a rushed game and it shows in the quality. Even the developers have admitted it by making those GREAT dlcs which are better than the actual core game.

And you need to stop bashing people who prefer Origins. That is not helping you get your point acrorss.

I still think When DA:3 comes out and it has more elements from Origins...(The Developers did say the next game would be a better combination of the two) I predict you will be the first one complaining.

on the 1st 2 highlighted points most DAO fans would do well to heed this in releation to people who like DA2 it goes both ways sister 

and on your final point you make an assumption based on you own favourtism towards DAO since as nothing has been confirmed and is pure speculation at this point 

Modifié par jbrand2002uk, 07 novembre 2011 - 06:51 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

If they want to make God of War, fine, but they should tell us they're making God of War so we can stop buying the games.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Addai67 wrote...

I agree, it does help to think of this as a completely different game rather than a sequel, but that doesn't lessen the disgruntled-ness.  It's just a reminder that DA2 was not a worthy sequel to Origins.

I don't think that helps at all.  I was no less disappointed by Mass Effect's failure to allow me to control my character than I was with DA2.

Each game stands alone.  Each game should be judges using the same criteria.  If BioWare hadn't just made DAO, I'd be referring back to their earlier games to show how they can and have made better games.

[RagingCyclone]

Melca36 wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Actually I do know Vanishing point Kowalski attempts to drives across america in a dodge challenger to deliver bootlegged beer within a time limit while avoiding the state authorities along the way,finishing with him apparently plowing it into 2 bulldozers on the state line, fueling a whole debate over whether or not he was actually in the car and therefore died or didnt.

My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

You need to let it go and try to accept the fact that not everybody is going to play like you play ir agree with your  thoughts.

I didnt hate DA:2. It was a fun game for what it offered but it was a rushed game and it shows in the quality. Even the developers have admitted it by making those GREAT dlcs which are better than the actual core game.

And you need to stop bashing people who prefer Origins. That is not helping you get your point acrorss.

I still think When DA:3 comes out and it has more elements from Origins...(The Developers did say the next game would be a better combination of the two) I predict you will be the first one complaining.

Just ignore him, Melca. Remember the last time he came on spouting the 'holier than thou" attitude? Some people will just not understand that a critique of DA2 from a person does not mean that person hates DA2.  Or that not every person plays the same way which is why there are the varying opinions.  He's even making assupmtions about you without even knowing you. He's just out looking for a fight and you are playing right into his hands. Best bet, ignore him.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 07 novembre 2011 - 07:27 .

[Melca36]

Melca36 wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Actually I do know Vanishing point Kowalski attempts to drives across america in a dodge challenger to deliver bootlegged beer within a time limit while avoiding the state authorities along the way,finishing with him apparently plowing it into 2 bulldozers on the state line, fueling a whole debate over whether or not he was actually in the car and therefore died or didnt.

My point being Melca is that stubbornly playing DA2 like you play DAO will only lead to disappointment because the whole emphasis/style whatever is entirely different and maybe if alot of the disgruntled DAO players played it for what it is rather than what they wanted it to be then maybe they might start to enjoy it slightly but as most DAO posters think enjoying DA2 even slightly is some kind of Capitol crime then i may as well argue the wind .

You need to let it go and try to accept the fact that not everybody is going to play like you play ir agree with your  thoughts.

I didnt hate DA:2. It was a fun game for what it offered but it was a rushed game and it shows in the quality. Even the developers have admitted it by making those GREAT dlcs which are better than the actual core game.

And you need to stop bashing people who prefer Origins. That is not helping you get your point acrorss.

I still think When DA:3 comes out and it has more elements from Origins...(The Developers did say the next game would be a better combination of the two) I predict you will be the first one complaining.

yeah you're right Rage

He really infuriated me with his lack of respect for modders on another post and I couldnt help myself

[TheRealJayDee]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If they want to make God of War, fine, but they should tell us they're making God of War so we can stop buying the games.

If they wanted to make God of War they should have hired people who can do enjoyable action gameplay. I happen to love God of War, and DA2 wasn't like it. Problem is that the whole of DA2 didn't know what it wanted to be - RPG/Action-RPG, personal drama/slaughterfest, sequel/reboot, Dragon Age/something else.

[Fast Jimmy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Even in DAO the "youness" of the PC is still confined within the limitations of the script the only way the PC can ever truly be "you" is if You wrote the script yourself.

Even so the biggest mistake I have seen is DA2 being reviewed or criticized based on the standards of an RPG and i'm sorry to disappoint but regardless of what the marketing said its easy to tell withing 20 secs of playing the demo that DA2 clearly isnt an RPG a la DAO therefore comparing DA2 to DAO is not a valid comparison sure you play a role as you do in any game but the priorities are totally different.

If anything DA2 is closer to Viking Battle for Asgard or at a stretch Star Wars the Force Unleashed in that they are hack and slash action games with very light RPG elements EG being able to customize your PC's look, weapons etc. And yes i have heard the critics standard defence that calling it Dragon Age 2 and marketing it as a sequel means thats is is a sequel and therefore can be compared fairly to its predecessor.

Which is ridiculous at best that would be like me saying Star Wars Republic Commando can be compared to Star Wars Rogue Squadron because they both have Star Wars in the title the former is a FPS the latter a space combat shooter totally different types of game with totally different emphasises.

It amazes me that so many people took the "hype" and "marketing" as a given this has been going on since humans 1st started selling products hundreds if not thousands of years ago and is nothing new and surely anyone old enough to be playing videogames should have cottoned onto this by now.

Put it this way people If we all were stood on the viewing platform of the empire state building or Big Ben in London and i said to all of you "Its ok to jump off without a safety rope or a parachute you wont die when you hit the ground because the grounds is made of fluffy pink soft marshmallows, would you jump on blind faith or get a second opinion? Just because the marketing tells you it is so does not mean that it is.

Run on sentences... my only weakness...

How did you know?




That being said... saying people bought the "hype and marketting" is conceding the fact that the game did not deliver what it said it was going to.

I can order a crate full of apples and get oranges. You may love oranges and think they are the cat's pajamas. I , too, may love a good naranja from time to time. But I order a crate of apples. I had been looking forward to apples for months, even making sure to order my crate of apples early and show up at midnight the night they came in.

I don't care how good oranges are... I'm ticked off that I didn't get apples. No amount of arguing the merits of oranges is going to change that.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If they want to make God of War, fine, but they should tell us they're making God of War so we can stop buying the games.

But then they sell less games. So... why would they have told us that?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If they want to make God of War, fine, but they should tell us they're making God of War so we can stop buying the games.

But then they sell less games. So... why would they have told us that?

Presumably they're making God of War because they think people like God of War.  In which case, they should WANT to publicise that it's God of War so the God of War fans can find it.