384 réponses à ce sujet

[jbrand2002uk]

[quote]AlexXIV wrote...

[quote]jbrand2002uk wrote...
So Yes I agree DA2 can be limiting in terms of RP possibilities but no more so than any other RPG from any other Developer 
[/quote]
This kind of statement makes it so hard to take you serious. There are differences and even the chance of two games having the same amount of freedom is out of question. Also it doesn't matter how limiting it actually is if the player doesn't feel limited. You see, to satisfy me there need not be alot of options, just those that I would have picked anyway. I could play the game through from start to end and never notice any limit. But that's coincidence. Another person may have tried other options and noticed there are none (noteworthy), getting disappointed. So bottomline, you liked it, good for you. Others didn't, hence they voice their complaints. As if you wouldn't complain about things you dislike considering the nature and number of your posts ... Have you ever considered that you liking it more than others is merely a matter of you getting what you wanted and others not? And that you insulting others for not liking the same things you liked is just being ignorant?

Bioware labeled/advertised this game to be many things that it wasn't really. And the answer is unsatisfied customers. That's a reaction they simply have to live with. Like people have to live with the fact that they spent their money on something they expected more of. Winner is still Bioware because they made money, while some of their costumers spent money for something they maybe didn't need.[/quote]

I have no qualms with people disagreeing with me, what irked me was the gross overreaction towards how the game was marketed as if it were new and exclusive to BW my point was that this is the way products have been sold by every company since the begining of humans trading for example TV advertisments for anti wrinkle creams featuring models who dont have wrinkles anyway, products have always been hyped up and this is unlikely to change so its perplexes me why people get soo angry about something thats so commonplace.

[AlexXIV]

Yeah it is probably unfair because Bioware have a forum where people can complain with relatively little effort. But in general I think it is a good thing to complain. People swallow too much even if they don't have to. But if I write an email to my Chancellor I will get a standard reply and the mail goes into data nirvana. If it was just me then advertisement in general would be more regulated. But as long as people don't mind to be lied to nothing will change anyway. Not that I think that posting here will change anything ...

Modifié par AlexXIV, 08 novembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[HanabPacal]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Explain this then you say that those who create a background/personallity etc in DA2 that works around the pre written script are not role playing,how is this different to DAO/ME et al all games RPG's or not have a script written with a pre determined intent including DAO/ME fallout etc having a pre determined starting point with multiple "Origins" does not change this every response in every RPG was written with a pre determined intent and tone and the corresponding response by the NPC was written in regard to the question/answer you have just picked for your PC.

So it does not matter how you edit the wording/delivery in your head the game is programmed to respond along the lines of the pre written script which is not written by you the player but by a writer .So by editing the tone/delivery in your head to something other than how the Original script was intended then you are acting outside of the confines of the game and by your own definition not roleplaying.

What confuses me is that you lambast DA2 for being limiting and then simultaneously praise other games that have those same limitations.

In reference to the bolded section above:


What in the world are you talking about?  Besides the line about you seemingly being obsessed with DA:O (and that this conversation is not about DA:O) I haven’t even mentioned another game in my posts, let alone praised other games.  I have spoken only of DA2.  But I’ll make you a deal – if you can find any mention of another game in my posts above and quote it for all to see (besides the one ‘mrcrusty’ already quoted that was aimed toward you) I will apologize and proclaim myself a hypocrite.  If, on the other hand, you can’t find an instance of me mentioning another game, then you apologize and admit that you make things up in order to attempt to discredit others and/or appear that you are right when there is nothing to back up your argument.
 
‘mrcrusty’ pretty much took care of everything else with his reply to you, but I will elaborate on the tone of voiced answers as I did a poor job of expressing myself in the original post (which I did indicate to ‘Morroian’). 
 
The point of me bringing up this aspect in the original post was to preemptively counter the knee-jerk responses assigning all importance to tone of conversation choices – the “my Hawke is sarcastic and he answers sarcastically, therefore the game facilitates an abundance of role-playing” type arguments.  The fact of the matter is that I like either system if done with at least some freedom to create possibilities within the game.  As it stands neither the tone of the voiced responses in DA2 nor the tone that runs silently through your head in DA:O have any impact on in game role-playing.  They merely provide each particular camp of thought on the subject flavor in their minds, but they don’t open up any role-play possibilities within their respective game.  And just to clarify, I never once mentioned the voiced versus silent protagonist debate, nor did I express a preference for one over the other. 
 
This was simply another case of you interjecting fiction into a post because it’s what you want that post to be saying, rather than answering what was really written or asking for clarification if the post was unclear.   Again, peering back through your posts in other threads this seems to be SOP for you and not limited to this exchange.  So, maybe it really is time for you to answer that question that you keep posing to others – “Why do you take a game so seriously?”  More specifically, why do you take it so seriously that you continuously attribute posters with words that they didn’t write, and accuse them of doing things that they haven’t done?  What could motivate you to go to this extent for a game? 

[tmp7704]

Sepewrath wrote...

But that's why I said, in the last line of that post, its no different than putting this game on mute, except that your characters mouth and face actually move. If you mute the game, then delivery happens anyway you want, you wont be able to hear anyone else, but hey you can roleplay

Considering putting the game on mute makes you unable to hear everyone else, this is hardly "no different". It's like saying having one leg is no different than having two legs, since in both cases technically you have at least one leg.

With a silent protagonist, you gain the ability to "the apple is red" is said, however you dream it up, but you lose just as much as you gain. For example, the Friend/Rival system, would have been completely hollow without a voiced character.

How does having fixed delivery of your character lines make it "not hollow" for you? Why does it become "completely hollow" in a system where you have more freedom in deciding exactly how your character speaks their lines?

For me, establishing a relationship and a personality is more paramount to roleplaying than meticulous line delivery

That seems like argument against the voiced PC then -- since it's the voiced PC that provides the 'meticulous line delivery', one that leaves no room for player's tweaking... which in turn makes establishing the personality more difficult -- you are given certain version of character's personality, whether you like it or not.

That's why we have icons in DA2, you may have thought of a nice delivery of the line. But then the character responds like you dropkicked their grandmother.

I think you are talking about different thing that i do, and one which seems to misunderstand example i was making earlier.

I'm talking strictly of the player's ability to imagine the delivery of line which doesn't go against the "intent icon". As such, there's no effect you speak of. But also, there's no effect like in DA2, where you might select that red line and expect Hawke to act moderately upset --as situation would warrant-- yet he/she responds RAWRRAWRRAR, HAWKE SMASH "like you dropkicked their grandmother", indeed.

[Uccio]

I truly enjoyed in Origins when I first time chose to become a blood mage and in doing so I sold the boys soul to that demon. It really had a step to right direction of making a dramatic decision to achieve certain goal. I would have loved to see even more changes to happen because of my choise but atleast I got this one. In DA2 however there was nothing similar, I could just choose blood magic talent and that was it. No choises or consequences even I chose the most hoffifying form of magic the whole world is supposed to fear, no roleplaying, reactions from npcs, no nothing.

[Ingu]

Without reading every single opinion/debate that's been going on in the past fifteen pages, I just wanted to voice my agreement to first post's comments. Often I found Diplomatic Hawke naive, Sarcastic Hawke callous/cruel and Aggressive Hawke cruel/idiotic, and it's impossible to roleplay any character with the amount of nuance that was possible in Dragon Age: Origins, which had such a large variety of dialogue that was clearly written with easily discernible attitudes.

I think to some extent the writing as well as the voice actor (and/or direction) is to blame, but between DA:O and DA2, a lot of depth and versatility in terms of role-playing has been lost. There were so many cases where I interpreted the option one way and got a completely different/disconcerting result when choosing it I eventually just gave up on playing the character I wanted and instead let Hawke be whoever he decided to be. If anything the characterisations were far too extreme. Many times the characters I played seemed so unrealistic even to myself I had to pretend that it was just some sort of crazy facade they put up to deal with the world. Then I wonder why it is that they even do this.

But by the end I did get used to this. I enjoy DA2 right now as is, but the first and second games are very different.

Modifié par Ingu, 10 novembre 2011 - 10:33 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If they want to make God of War, fine, but they should tell us they're making God of War so we can stop buying the games.

But then they sell less games. So... why would they have told us that?

Because lying to people to take their money is bad? 

HAHAHAHAAA!!!

Oh, man... man... I haven't laughed that hard since I was a little tyke... Woooo...

I'm willing to bet that the average person in an industialized nation is hit by over 1000 lies to get them to buy something a week.

Heck, I'd consider taking that bet if it was even just A DAY.

And? 

That makes it OK? 

You're fine with being lied to constantly? 

No, no I'm not. I don't enjoy it in the least. Its just sad I guess that I totally expect a company to lie to my face to get my money before I even walk out the door in the morning.

[Phaedros]

No, no I'm not. I don't enjoy it in the least. Its just sad I guess that I totally expect a company to lie to my face to get my money before I even walk out the door in the morning.

It's such a shame that that's what happened ...

[Morroian]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No, no I'm not. I don't enjoy it in the least. Its just sad I guess that I totally expect a company to lie to my face to get my money before I even walk out the door in the morning.

All marketing involves lying. Sad but true, Bioware/EA marketing have lied, CDProjekt marketing have lied.............. I don't think Bethesda have about Skyrim but they're the exception.

Modifié par Morroian, 11 novembre 2011 - 01:17 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Morroian wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

No, no I'm not. I don't enjoy it in the least. Its just sad I guess that I totally expect a company to lie to my face to get my money before I even walk out the door in the morning.

All marketing involves lying. Sad but true, Bioware/EA marketing have lied, CDProjekt marketing have lied.............. I don't think Bethesda have about Skyrim but they're the exception.

Its also sad, because Bioware was the exception before, as well.