384 réponses à ce sujet

[Gunderic]

jlb524 wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

It can be. But then the open-to-all-who-are-skilled policy of the Grey Wardens is there for a reason: to let the player decide on different character builds. And the darkspawn is a chaotic evil enemy for a reason: any kind of personality type would probably want to kill them, at least in self-defense, if not hunt them down deliberately. As 'Hawke', I have to choose one controversial side over another even if would want no part in it; I have to resort to larceny or murder to get into a city I see no particular reason to go to. I have to, and this I find particularly funny, tempt faith again by going on a stupid expedition that could end in death. I have to oppose the Qunari even if I do not wish to.

Man, Dragon Age 2 sucks.

It's not really any different.

Yeah it is. Grey Wardens aren't united under one philosophical/political mindset (aside from being 'neutral', I suppose). You could potentially roleplay as any type of character, as long as you kill darkspawn. This is different with Hawke.

 You not only have to accept your fate as a 'Grey Warden' but you are also railroaded into stopping the Blight in one specific way (travel around Ferelden and gather treaties).  Why do I have to seek out the Dalish, dwarves, etc.?  Why not seek aid from Orlais?

As 'the Warden' you have to choose one king in Orzammar over the other.  You have to deal with the mess in the Circle.  You have to waste time looking for some supposed magical ashes that may cure the Arl of Redcliffe.

How would you propose that the Grey Wardens stop the Blight?*

*Alistair said Orlais probably already got word of Ferelden's predicament ( which is why they sent Riordian, I think?). Yes you can't travel to Orlais of course, but the game tells you that you'll probably fail in your objective to protect Ferelden (if that's what you want).

More or less you've only got one way of stopping the Blight because there's only one way to possibly stop the Blight. It's really no different in some ways than a dungeon master telling the player how he will perform an action if he wants to do X. It's still a form of linearity or 'railroading' I suppose, and BioWare has become somewhat apt at feeding us the "there is no other possible way" illusion, but this doesn't force my character into a way of thinking like Dragon Age 2's plot does. Both games have varying degrees of linearity and 'but thou must's', but Dragon Age 2 excels in this.

Still, how would you go about stopping the Blight most effectively? I know that if my characters would have a hard time thinking about what they would do (as an alternative), then BioWare would probably know even less. That said, aside from joining the Grey Wardens and stopping the Blight, I would have liked the option to immigrate out of Ferelden and leave the darkspawn behind. 

Modifié par Gunderic, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:19 .

[Ryzaki]

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:19 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

I fail to see what relevance the Viscount's Keep would have had at the start of Act III.  And there might not have been a love interest, and the sibling could have been absent.

It's entirely possible for Hawke to start Act III with no ties to Kirkwall at all.

[esper]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

High social status which just got a tad higher, the fact that your fortune is invested in Kirkwall busniness. Your servant and your friends also living in Kirkwall. 

[Ryzaki]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

S

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

 

I like how you know *my* Hawke. 

And no there was no reason for my Hawke (at least the one who I really couldn't see staying in Kirkwall another minute) not to leave. There were no more siblings, there was no LI, there was no vicount's keep, there was no templars threatening him, there was just money. Maybe *Your* Hawkes had reason to stay but for mine they had no ties to Kirkwall other than money and money can be moved. As for friends. My aggressive Hawke had only Varric who could hardly stand him, Aveline who couldn't stand him, Fenris was...being Fenris, He wanted to rip Anders' tongue out, Merrill was a pain in the ass waiting to happen as far as he was concerned, most of his business partners he could've kept in contact with via letters, so yeah no reason to stay as far as he was concerned. He could take all that money he had, go back home (because Kirkwall certainly wasn't home to him by that point) and try to rebuild what was left of his crappy life instead of staying in bloodmage central.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:40 .

[jlb524]

Gunderic wrote...

How would you propose that the Grey Wardens stop the Blight?*

*Alistair said Orlais probably already got word of Ferelden's predicament ( which is why they sent Riordian, I think?). Yes you can't travel to Orlais of course, but the game tells you that you'll probably fail in your objective to protect Ferelden (if that's what you want).

If that's what you want to do...what if I don't?  What if I want to take my chances finding other Grey Wardens and sacrifice Ferelden?  

Gunderic wrote...
More or less you've only got one way of stopping the Blight because there's only one way to possibly stop the Blight.

Theoretically, there's more than one possible way to stop the Blight.  In game?  Of course!  You only have one option that you must follow.

Gunderic wrote...
It's really no different in some ways than a dungeon master telling the player how he will perform an action if he wants to do X. It's still a form of linearity or 'railroading' I suppose, and BioWare has become somewhat apt at feeding us the "there is no other possible way" illusion,

All BW games are pretty much like this...yeah.

Gunderic wrote...
but this doesn't force my character into a way of thinking like Dragon Age 2's plot does. Both games have varying degrees of linearity and 'but thou must's', but Dragon Age 2 excels in this.

Well, give me the details...why is DA2 worse than any other BW game?  It seems to be similar in 'railroading' to any other BW game I've played.  Is it just b/c you thought what the character had to do in DA:O, ME1/ME2, BG2, etc. was interesting and what Hawke had to do was not?

Gunderic wrote...
Still, how would you go about stopping the Blight most effectively? I know that if my characters would have a hard time thinking about what they would do (as an alternative), then BioWare would probably know even less. That said, aside from joining the Grey Wardens and stopping the Blight, I would have liked the option to immigrate out of Ferelden and leave the darkspawn behind. 

Considering Ferelden is completely effed up because of the civil war and their Circle's gone to hell, I'd give up on Ferelden and search for other Grey Wardens....since Grey Wardens are needed to fight the Blight, apparently.  You sacrifice Ferelden but it's worth it to stop the Blight.

Modifié par jlb524, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:35 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

esper wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

High social status which just got a tad higher, the fact that your fortune is invested in Kirkwall busniness. Your servant and your friends also living in Kirkwall. 

Also this tad "friends" are a terrorist, a naive bloodmage, a s*x maniac and an emo anti mage who are so thick with their belief system and one dimensional interaction, I wonder why anyone should bother considering to stay in Kirkwall for them. Anyway, they are all "gone" in the end, rendering all rivalry/friendship a moot like any other decisions. But hey, that's not important for Cassandra because DA2 was never about Hawke in the first place. It's about Anders and how the war erupted. Not about Rise to Power. Not about how to become a Champion of Kirwall ( it's just happen by accident, thanks to the Qunari ). 

[esper]

Ryzaki wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

S

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

 

I like how you know *my* Hawke. 

And no there was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. There were no more siblings, there was no LI, there was no vicount's keep, there was no templars threatening him, there was just money. Maybe *Your* Hawkes had reason to stay but for mine they had no ties to Kirkwall other than money and money can be moved. 

There was no reason compelling reason for my dalish warden to want to help fereldan (a country which she thought was doomed). she had to, so I had to find a roleplaying reason for that. Similary you Hawke is by act 2 a Kirkwaller wherever you want to or not, so you have to find a roleplaying reason for that. There a limitations in a bioware game. You have to play within them or stop playing that character.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...
There was no reason compelling reason for my dalish warden to want to help fereldan (a country which she thought was doomed). she had to, so I had to find a roleplaying reason for that. Similary you Hawke is by act 2 a Kirkwaller wherever you want to or not, so you have to find a roleplaying reason for that. There a limitations in a bioware game. You have to play within them or stop playing that character.

Which was my whole point in comparing it to the "well I wanted to leave Fereldan to the blight." train of thought. Except leaving Kirkwall wouldn't have resulted in Hawke leaving a country to be devoured by darkspawn and end up some lacky to an Orlesian.  

Frankly I just RP'd him as never being able to find a ship to take him back and become bloodthirsty and manical as a result. Also conviently explains why he disappeared. He finally found a damn ship to take him the hell out of there. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2011 - 10:45 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Gunderic wrote...

How would you propose that the Grey Wardens stop the Blight?*

*Alistair said Orlais probably already got word of Ferelden's predicament ( which is why they sent Riordian, I think?). Yes you can't travel to Orlais of course, but the game tells you that you'll probably fail in your objective to protect Ferelden (if that's what you want).

They could do the same thing they did to stop the previous four Blights - rally the forces of multiple nations. The third and fourth Blights were only defeated by the combined military might of Orlais and Tevinter, and even then both took over a decade to stop. The Grey Wardens sent Riordan to investigate what happened, not just help out, because all of the Wardens in Ferelden died at Ostagar. In previous Blights, nations (Antiva, Nevarra, etc.) were sacrificed in order to gather sufficient military might to push back the darkspawn. A more practical approach (supported by historical precedent) would have been to simply sacrifice Ferelden to buy time to push the Blight back with a superior military force. All of Thedas is bound to answer the Wardens' call, not just Ferelden.

You have to keep in mind that a Blight is not a small thing that is easily put down by a single nation's armies. This is why some of the commoners in the Hanged Man in DA2 don't even believe that the Blight actually occurred. Each of the previous Blights lasted for years. 

[esper]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

esper wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

High social status which just got a tad higher, the fact that your fortune is invested in Kirkwall busniness. Your servant and your friends also living in Kirkwall. 

Also this tad "friends" are a terrorist, a naive bloodmage, a s*x maniac and an emo anti mage who are so thick with their belief system and one dimensional interaction, I wonder why anyone should bother considering to stay in Kirkwall for them. Anyway, they are all "gone" in the end, rendering all rivalry/friendship a moot like any other decisions. But hey, that's not important for Cassandra because DA2 was never about Hawke in the first place. It's about Anders and how the war erupted. Not about Rise to Power. Not about how to become a Champion of Kirwall ( it's just happen by accident, thanks to the Qunari ). 

They happens to be good friend of my Hawke and she is no physic and doens't know how act 3 would end. But we are getting dangerous close to breaking the spoiler thing. What whykikyouwhy and I suggested was ideas as to why Hawke would want to stay, if it doesn't works for you it is your problem not ours. You will have to come up with your own ideas because Hawke stays. Bioware is not a sandbox, you have to work within the limit of the story. 
And why is Cassandra being drawn into this discussion?

[esper]

Ryzaki wrote...

esper wrote...
There was no reason compelling reason for my dalish warden to want to help fereldan (a country which she thought was doomed). she had to, so I had to find a roleplaying reason for that. Similary you Hawke is by act 2 a Kirkwaller wherever you want to or not, so you have to find a roleplaying reason for that. There a limitations in a bioware game. You have to play within them or stop playing that character.

Which was my whole point in comparing it to the "well I wanted to leave Fereldan to the blight." train of thought. Except leaving Kirkwall wouldn't have resulted in Hawke leaving a country to be devoured by darkspawn and end up some lacky to an Orlesian.  

Frankly I just RP'd him as never being able to find a ship to take him back and become bloodthirsty and manical as a result. Also conviently explains why he disappeared. He finally found a damn ship to take him the hell out of there. 

I actually feel bad for that specific Hawke. All though I am afraid to ask why he just didn't walk away...
Personally I mostly roleplay that my Hawke just has come to consider Kirkwall home with all its ups and downs.

[whykikyouwhy]

Ryzaki wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

S

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

 

I like how you know *my* Hawke. 

And no there was no reason for my Hawke (at least the one who I really couldn't see staying in Kirkwall another minute) not to leave. There were no more siblings, there was no LI, there was no vicount's keep, there was no templars threatening him, there was just money. Maybe *Your* Hawkes had reason to stay but for mine they had no ties to Kirkwall other than money and money can be moved. As for friends. My aggressive Hawke had only Varric who could hardly stand him, Aveline who couldn't stand him, Fenris was...being Fenris, He wanted to rip Anders' tongue out, Merrill was a pain in the ass waiting to happen as far as he was concerned, most of his business partners he could've kept in contact with via letters, so yeah no reason to stay as far as he was concerned. He could take all that money he had, go back home (because Kirkwall certainly wasn't home to him by that point) and try to rebuild what was left of his crappy life instead of staying in bloodmage central.

I don't see where, in my response, I called out anyone's Hawke. I listed some vague possibilities....vague, because, as I said, this is a no spoiler forum. And possibilities because I do not know what kind of game you played.

If you care to inject intent into my reply, that's your perogative. But please keep in mind that is exactly what you claim I have done with *your* Hawke.

Hawke, male or female, mage, rogue or warrior, have several options before him/her. (S)he may have friends, (s)he may have a LI, (s)he may have numerous reasons to stay and work things out in Kirkwall. And yes, the game keeps you there, because it's a microcosm chapter in the DA narrative. Some may call that railroading, I call being allowed to play in one area of a larger map. Those are the rules of rental for this story. I was ok with that. I understand that others may not be, and that's fine. But a good chunk of games out there, RPGs and such, have a limited map or world for you to play in. Therefore it's up to the player to fill in those gaps as he/she sees fit.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

esper wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

esper wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

High social status which just got a tad higher, the fact that your fortune is invested in Kirkwall busniness. Your servant and your friends also living in Kirkwall. 

Also this tad "friends" are a terrorist, a naive bloodmage, a s*x maniac and an emo anti mage who are so thick with their belief system and one dimensional interaction, I wonder why anyone should bother considering to stay in Kirkwall for them. Anyway, they are all "gone" in the end, rendering all rivalry/friendship a moot like any other decisions. But hey, that's not important for Cassandra because DA2 was never about Hawke in the first place. It's about Anders and how the war erupted. Not about Rise to Power. Not about how to become a Champion of Kirwall ( it's just happen by accident, thanks to the Qunari ). 

They happens to be good friend of my Hawke and she is no physic and doens't know how act 3 would end. But we are getting dangerous close to breaking the spoiler thing. What whykikyouwhy and I suggested was ideas as to why Hawke would want to stay, if it doesn't works for you it is your problem not ours. You will have to come up with your own ideas because Hawke stays. Bioware is not a sandbox, you have to work within the limit of the story. 
And why is Cassandra being drawn into this discussion?

And how do you propose I have to come up with my own ideas when I hate them all? I hate their shallow characters and I hate their one dimensional interaction which only serve to accomplish their personal quest. You enjoyed being a errant boy, that's your problem. Not mine. I don't enjoy being manipulated through one dimensional interaction with companions  
( that talks 3 or 4 dialogues per years )
 who never developed. I expect a full flesh out character. Lot of expository. Not a rushed and shallow characters like DA 2 companions.
 
 
Why I bring Cassandra to this? It Cassandra's motive that drive ACT 3. Not Hawke. In fact, Hawke has no reason to "re live" his own past. It ridiculous,  unless of course, he looses his memory like Shepard. But did that happen to Hawke? Nope.

[Ryzaki]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I don't see where, in my response, I called out anyone's Hawke. I listed some vague possibilities....vague, because, as I said, this is a no spoiler forum. And possibilities because I do not know what kind of game you played.

If you care to inject intent into my reply, that's your perogative. But please keep in mind that is exactly what you claim I have done with *your* Hawke.

Hawke, male or female, mage, rogue or warrior, have several options before him/her. (S)he may have friends, (s)he may have a LI, (s)he may have numerous reasons to stay and work things out in Kirkwall. And yes, the game keeps you there, because it's a microcosm chapter in the DA narrative. Some may call that railroading, I call being allowed to play in one area of a larger map. Those are the rules of rental for this story. I was ok with that. I understand that others may not be, and that's fine. But a good chunk of games out there, RPGs and such, have a limited map or world for you to play in. Therefore it's up to the player to fill in those gaps as he/she sees fit.

Then I apologize for injecting intent where it wasn't. 

My Hawke had no reason to stay in Kirkwall. Just like some people's wardens had no reason to fight the blight. I dealt with it by giving a bogus reason (no ships to take him away). That said I find it far easier to justify fighting the blight then staying in a bloodmage infested city with it's tryannical ruler breathing down my character's neck when the whole reason he went there in the first place was dead or gone. While some hawkes may have reason to stay some may not just like Wardens. JUst came down to giving mine a reason to stay despite wanting to leave. No ships and being able to kill copious amounts of people with non consequences (and in the case of the anullment with full support of the law) became the reasoning. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2011 - 11:08 .

[esper]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

esper wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

esper wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I would've liked the option to leave Kirkwall after Act 2. There was no reason for my Hawke not to leave. 

Hm...

There were plenty of reasons, I think. But given that this is a no spoiler zone, I hesitate to list them, or the exact details/explanations. To be vague - the viscount's keep, a sibling, a LI...probably a few other reasons as well.

High social status which just got a tad higher, the fact that your fortune is invested in Kirkwall busniness. Your servant and your friends also living in Kirkwall. 

Also this tad "friends" are a terrorist, a naive bloodmage, a s*x maniac and an emo anti mage who are so thick with their belief system and one dimensional interaction, I wonder why anyone should bother considering to stay in Kirkwall for them. Anyway, they are all "gone" in the end, rendering all rivalry/friendship a moot like any other decisions. But hey, that's not important for Cassandra because DA2 was never about Hawke in the first place. It's about Anders and how the war erupted. Not about Rise to Power. Not about how to become a Champion of Kirwall ( it's just happen by accident, thanks to the Qunari ). 

They happens to be good friend of my Hawke and she is no physic and doens't know how act 3 would end. But we are getting dangerous close to breaking the spoiler thing. What whykikyouwhy and I suggested was ideas as to why Hawke would want to stay, if it doesn't works for you it is your problem not ours. You will have to come up with your own ideas because Hawke stays. Bioware is not a sandbox, you have to work within the limit of the story. 
And why is Cassandra being drawn into this discussion?

And how do you propose I have to come up with my own ideas when I hate them all? I hate their shallow characters and I hate their one dimensional interaction which only serve to accomplish their personal quest. You enjoyed being a errant boy, that's your problem. Not mine. I don't enjoy being manipulated through one dimensional interaction with companions  
( that talks 3 or 4 dialogues per years )
 who never developed. I expect a full flesh out character. Lot of expository. Not a rushed and shallow characters like DA 2 companions.
 
 
Why I bring Cassandra to this? It Cassandra's motive that drive ACT 3. Not Hawke. In fact, Hawke has no reason to "re live" his own past. It ridiculous,  unless of course, he looses his memory like Shepard. But did that happen to Hawke? Nope.

I think you do not understand the concept of frame. Cassansdra's motice is the reason why the story is told. Hawke do no relieve his past, hawke does not exits in the frame.And Hawke is not the player. When we as plaeyer 'hear' the story Hawke is in hiding an no where in sight
 varric and cassandra (and to some extent the player) does exits in the frame, thus Varric in game can sometimes break the fourth wall. 
Hawke in game has not way of knowing the future. Hawke has his or hers goal in the story and the have zero to do with Cassandra as Hawke doesn't even know of Cassandra's existence. The motivation of the frame is not always the same motivation of the characters in the story in fact I have rarely seen a frame in which the motivations of the frame is the same as the characters in the story, usually there is some clash between the two.
 
I disagree with everything you say about the companions, but if you hate it so much I cannot see why you should do anything, but put the game away, leave the forum and spend your time on games you do enjoy. wouldn't that make you happier.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

esper wrote...
I think you do not understand the concept of frame. Cassansdra's motice is the reason why the story is told. Hawke do no relieve his past, hawke does not exits in the frame.And Hawke is not the player. When we as plaeyer 'hear' the story Hawke is in hiding an no where in sight
 varric and cassandra (and to some extent the player) does exits in the frame, thus Varric in game can sometimes break the fourth wall. 
Hawke in game has not way of knowing the future. Hawke has his or hers goal in the story and the have zero to do with Cassandra as Hawke doesn't even know of Cassandra's existence. The motivation of the frame is not always the same motivation of the characters in the story in fact I have rarely seen a frame in which the motivations of the frame is the same as the characters in the story, usually there is some clash between the two.

That's precisely why I mentioned for months why DA 2 narration is not suitable for role-play. You are not the character. You are no one.
 

esper wrote...

I disagree with everything you say about the companions, but if you hate it so much I cannot see why you should do anything, but put the game away, leave the forum and spend your time on games you do enjoy. wouldn't that make you happier.

First of all, I am waiting for DA 3 news.
Secondly, I am tired of talking about DA2 but I cannot allow people like you trying to influence BioWare or others into thinking that what you like represent what majority wants. All this problem is partly caused by feedback by people like you who turn DA into what is now. If DA2 is so great then why cause so much havoc all over the world? Why all the mixed reaction as opposed to Origins? Why DA 2 isn't worth  to be considered "RPG of decade" as RPG Gamer claimed?
And lastly, I do play the game I enjoy the most at the moment and I don't intend to post anything until I read ridiculous comments as if they're facts. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rojahar wrote...

They should have had an option to go back to Ferelden, which would lead to a game over screen, and cut to Cassandra stabbing Varric, calling him a liar. Really, pulling the "My character REFUSES to adventure!" card in any RPG is just being obstinate for the sake of it. Even tabletops require some level of cooperation. I can only imagine some of you roll a character, then insistently argue with the DM that your character is just going to stay in some tavern, forever, and drink, no matter what gets thrown at you.

But there needs to be some sort of credible plot hook.  Other countries might have closed their borders to Fereldan refugees.  They could have had plague rumours prevent any city from admitting people who'd been to Kirkwall.  Something that would give the player some reason - any reason - to justify Hawke's total disinterest in leaving Kirkwall.

Seriously, I just thought those up now.  Professional writers should be able to do better.  But instead, DA2 just assumed Hawke was living in Kirkwall and intended to stay there without giving the player any reason to agree with that.

[Morroian]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

First of all, I am waiting for DA 3 news.
Secondly, I am tired of talking about DA2 but I cannot allow people like you trying to influence BioWare or others into thinking that what you like represent what majority wants. All this problem is partly caused by feedback by people like you who turn DA into what is now.

How presumptious and arrogant of you.

[Ryzaki]

Rojahar wrote...


They should have had an option to go back to Ferelden, which would lead to a game over screen, and cut to Cassandra stabbing Varric, calling him a liar. Really, pulling the "My character REFUSES to adventure!" card in any RPG is just being obstinate for the sake of it. Even tabletops require some level of cooperation. I can only imagine some of you roll a character, then insistently argue with the DM that your character is just going to stay in some tavern, forever, and drink, no matter what gets thrown at you.

Except in DAO you kind of had perfect reasoning not to head for Orlais. 

1. If you did that you'd be on your own and a lone traveler is easy prey for anyone (the only reason *anyone* is following the PC is to stop the blight.)
2. Loghain is still hunting you (with option 1 this is particularly dangerous)
3. The Warden really has no means or money for transportation to Orlais. (Not until you start making money and by then you might as well fulfill the treaties).  

Meanwhile Hawke

1. Meredith would want a non-mage Hawke to leave. He/she has far too much power and influence and it threatens herown (heck sh emight even let a mage Hawke leave just to get him/her out of her hair)
2. Hawke has no one (if not a mage) chasing him/her and no real reason for anyone to track him/her down. 
3. Hawke's rich so he/she defintely has the means and money for transportation anywhere

So frankly to me the Warden had perfect reasoning not to try to find the Orlesians. The second he/she does that he/she loses all his/her allies and will probably end up dead in some alley. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2011 - 11:26 .

[tmp7704]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I would have to say that DA2 does make sense. The expedition was about earning money to get the family someplace safe and stable - to buy back the estate. So Act 1 ends with that mission handled and completed.

DA2 point out itself the plot regarding that doesn't make much sense, giving Hawke option to state the obvious -- "if i had as much gold as you ask for to finance your expedition, i wouldn't need to go on one in the first place" Varric pretty much just glosses over that, and offers you the fixed line in response.

[Ryzaki]

Rojahar wrote...
Not wanting to stay in Kirkwall is more like not wanting to stop the Blight. "My Warden doesn't care he's a Gray Warden. He just wants to go to Denerim and drink until he inevitably dies one way or another! Being a Warden is an eventual death sentence anyway, and I'm playing a selfish ******!"

So you just didn't read my post eh? 

In DAO not wanting to stop the blight is a fine way to play but given the Warden's circumstances he/she doesn't really have much choice. The darkspawn can sense them, they don't have any support structure outside of stopping the blight in fereldan, they have nothing else. (Mage's home is FUBAR'd until he/she busts out the treaties and he/she would've ended up in jail anyway without being a warden, CE is screwed because he/she'll be executed without being a warden (same for DC) DN was exiled so he/she has no home to go back to without being a warden, DE's clan is gone and he/she doesn't know where (and a lone elf wandering around looking for his/her clan is just asking for a slit throat), HN has lost everything and has no way of getting it back. (Outside of But thou must) meanwhile but thou must is a strong factor keeping Hawke in Kirkwall. Unlike the Warden he/she has the means to leave and no one stopping him/her (unless he/she's a mage and even that's debateable). The Warden's choice of heading to Orlais is suicidal. (so is staying to get the treaties but it's significantly less suicidal)

Hawke? 

There's really nothing suicidal about Hawke leaving Kirkwall. Hell I'd say it's a measure of common sense. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 02 novembre 2011 - 11:33 .