173 réponses à ce sujet

[Candidate 88766]

As we know from ME2, Dholen is prematurely ageing due to dark energy.

However, something that I didn't know until recently is that Element Zero is only created when solid matter is affected by the energy from a star going supernova. When Dholen prematurely goes supernova, much of the solid matter on Haestrom will be turned into element zero, as well as much of the solid matter on the other planets in the system - and a system's worth of element zero is a hell of a lot.

This leads to at least two possibilities.

Firstly, if we assume that the acceleration of Dholen's ageing is intentional, then the only species capable is the Reapers. The Reapers obviously need the Citadel and all the Relays to be able to run for up to 50,000 years in their absence (some Relays are dormant, but depending on how quickly the surviving species reach spaceflight the Relays must be able to function for a long time). This would require an obscene amount of element zero - the dark energy required to lower the mass of just one ship enough that it can travel tens of thousands of light years in a few seconds would be immense. Perhaps the only way the Cycle can be maintained is at the cost of the stars themselves - to keep the Cycle going, the Reapers may be forcing the stars to age prematurely. If this were true then it gives us even more reason to break the Cycle.

The second possiblity is that the cause of Dholen's ageing is either a natural occurance or the use of Mass Effect technology itself. If either of these is true then it raises masisve questions about the Reapers' true motives - are they trying to make themselves as powerful as possible before the galaxy dies, or are they trying to save as many species as possible before the galaxy dies by 'uploading' them into a Reaper shell? In the case of the second one, it seems that the Reapers give every species 50,000 years to prove their worth, and the ones they deem worthy are saved in reaper form. Of course, this comes at the terrible cost of every other sapient species, as well as the demise of non-sapient organic species which are destroyed when the Reapers bombard planets. 

So, what do you think is happening with Dholen? I imagine we'll find out in ME3, but its always fun to speculate.




(I'm aware this sort of thing has been discussed before but the information about how eezo is formed was new to me so I thought I'd share it. Also, I should add that I think this is related enough to ME3 to allow it to be in this forum).

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 30 octobre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Travie]

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

[Candidate 88766]

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Yeah it would be interesting - in order to save the galaxy, use of Mass Effect technology must be foresaken. Galactical society couldn;t survive though - without FTL, trade and travel between planets even in the same system would be incredibly hard, and each species has too many members to be confined to a single planet.

Because ME is at heart a sci-fi opera, I think the first option is more likely. There just seems to be something very heroic about saving the very stars themselves form the Reapers - you would literally be saving the galaxy (well, until its inevitable heat death in several billion years, but still).

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 30 octobre 2011 - 06:13 .

[111987]

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Never understood that theory, to be honest.

Why would using mass effect technology cause a build-up of dark energy anywhere? Let alone, in some random star in Geth space? You'd think this would be happening in the stars of the Asari, Turians, Salarians, etc... home systems, not on the outskirts of organic space.

[Candidate 88766]

111987 wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Never understood that theory, to be honest.

Why would using mass effect technology cause a build-up of dark energy anywhere? Let alone, in some random star in Geth space? You'd think this would be happening in the stars of the Asari, Turians, Salarians, etc... home systems, not on the outskirts of organic space.

Yeah, thats why I think its more likely to be intentional.

[General User]

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

That was an episode of Star Trek.

[Saaziel]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

As we know from ME2, Dholen is prematurely ageing due to dark energy.

However, something that I didn't know until recently is that Element Zero is only created when solid matter is affected by the energy from a star going supernova.

{snip}


(I'm aware this sort of thing has been discussed before but the information about how eezo is formed was new to me so I thought I'd share it. Also, I should add that I think this is related enough to ME3 to allow it to be in this forum).

I did not know this my self. Where did you see / hear this?

On the the Dholen event; I think its one , of many , good examples where the story gets it right. Its a good mystery where there is just enough information to make "educated" guesses but not insufficient information to trail off into wild speculations.

Personally i think that Eezo & the associated Mass effect physics will play an important role in defeating the Reaper; Biotics and the rest. Its possible that the Dholen incident was/ is caused by the Heretics with the help of left over tech from Nazara .

Modifié par Saaziel, 30 octobre 2011 - 06:16 .

[Sgt Stryker]

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about that. The whole "advanced technology is polluting the galaxy, so we have to abandon our way of life" trope is a little over-used by now.

[Dean_the_Young]

111987 wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Never understood that theory, to be honest.

Why would using mass effect technology cause a build-up of dark energy anywhere? Let alone, in some random star in Geth space? You'd think this would be happening in the stars of the Asari, Turians, Salarians, etc... home systems, not on the outskirts of organic space.

Polution is one of those things that isn't always most obvious in the vicinity of where it's produced. Plus, Dark Energy is about as deus-ex plot device as you can get.

If Dark Energy buildup has galactic, rather than local, effects, then you'd have your answer. Certainly there was no obvious local super-weapon by the Geth, and the rate of change was called to un-weildy to be a weapon.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about that. The whole "advanced technology is polluting the galaxy, so we have to abandon our way of life" trope is a little over-used by now.

And blue-skined alien sex-babes, energy swords, and space-fantasy psychics aren't?

[Candidate 88766]

Saaziel wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

As we know from ME2, Dholen is prematurely ageing due to dark energy.

However, something that I didn't know until recently is that Element Zero is only created when solid matter is affected by the energy from a star going supernova.

{snip}


(I'm aware this sort of thing has been discussed before but the information about how eezo is formed was new to me so I thought I'd share it. Also, I should add that I think this is related enough to ME3 to allow it to be in this forum).

I did not know this my self. Where did you see / hear this?

On the the Dholen event; I think its one , of many , good example where the story gets it right. Its a good mystery where there is just enough information to make "educated" guesses but not insufficient information to trail off into wild speculations.

Personally i think that Eezo & the associated Mass effect physics will play an important role in defeating the Reaper; Biotics and the rest. Its possible that the Dholen incident was/ is caused by the Heretics with the help of left over tech from Nazara .

I got it form the in-game codex: 'Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet, is affected by the energy of a star going supernova. The material is common in the asteroid debris that orbits neutron stars and pulsars.'

I imagine/hope the mystery will be revealed in ME3 - as you say, there is just enough for us to speculate but we actually have no idea.

I suppose it could be the Geth doing it - they'll probably need a lot of eezo for the structure their building. The technology seems very advanced though.

[onelifecrisis]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

As we know from ME2, Dholen is prematurely ageing due to dark energy.

However, something that I didn't know until recently is that Element Zero is only created when solid matter is affected by the energy from a star going supernova. When Dholen prematurely goes supernova, much of the solid matter on Haestrom will be turned into element zero, as well as much of the solid matter on the other planets in the system - and a system's worth of element zero is a hell of a lot.

This leads to at least two possibilities.

Firstly, if we assume that the acceleration of Dholen's ageing is intentional, then the only species capable is the Reapers. The Reapers obviously need the Citadel and all the Relays to be able to run for up to 50,000 years in their absence (some Relays are dormant, but depending on how quickly the surviving species reach spaceflight the Relays must be able to function for a long time). This would require an obscene amount of element zero - the dark energy required to lower the mass of just one ship enough that it can travel tens of thousands of light years in a few seconds would be immense. Perhaps the only way the Cycle can be maintained is at the cost of the stars themselves - to keep the Cycle going, the Reapers may be forcing the stars to age prematurely. If this were true then it gives us even more reason to break the Cycle.

The second possiblity is that the cause of Dholen's ageing is either a natural occurance or the use of Mass Effect technology itself. If either of these is true then it raises masisve questions about the Reapers' true motives - are they trying to make themselves as powerful as possible before the galaxy dies, or are they trying to save as many species as possible before the galaxy dies by 'uploading' them into a Reaper shell? In the case of the second one, it seems that the Reapers give every species 50,000 years to prove their worth, and the ones they deem worthy are saved in reaper form. Of course, this comes at the terrible cost of every other sapient species, as well as the demise of non-sapient organic species which are destroyed when the Reapers bombard planets. 

So, what do you think is happening with Dholen? I imagine we'll find out in ME3, but its always fun to speculate.




(I'm aware this sort of thing has been discussed before but the information about how eezo is formed was new to me so I thought I'd share it. Also, I should add that I think this is related enough to ME3 to allow it to be in this forum).

Cool post. Thanks.

I'm with 111othernumbers when it comes to the second theory, so I guess it's the first, assuming you're right about the reapers being the only ones that could do that to the star. I doubt the Geth could do it, but then, this is BW. They had Cerberus bring a decaying corpse back to life FFS, so really anything is possible... even including an outside force/species that we've not seen yet. But the reaper theory seems sound to me.

[Candidate 88766]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about that. The whole "advanced technology is polluting the galaxy, so we have to abandon our way of life" trope is a little over-used by now.

And blue-skined alien sex-babes, energy swords, and space-fantasy psychics aren't?

Not to mention the whole 'aincent evil coming to wipe out all life'.

I personally don't think its the most likely option - I think its more likely that the Reapers are doing it intentionally star by star to keep up reserves of eezo.

[111987]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

111987 wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Never understood that theory, to be honest.

Why would using mass effect technology cause a build-up of dark energy anywhere? Let alone, in some random star in Geth space? You'd think this would be happening in the stars of the Asari, Turians, Salarians, etc... home systems, not on the outskirts of organic space.

Polution is one of those things that isn't always most obvious in the vicinity of where it's produced. Plus, Dark Energy is about as deus-ex plot device as you can get.

If Dark Energy buildup has galactic, rather than local, effects, then you'd have your answer. Certainly there was no obvious local super-weapon by the Geth, and the rate of change was called to un-weildy to be a weapon.

I just don't understand why if it was having a galactic effect, it wouldn't be happening in slight amounts to all stars, with it being worse in civilized sectors of space. I mean, we don't know a lot about dark energy because as you say, it is a very 'deus-exy' plot device, but it just makes little sense thsat the use of dark energy would somehow travel thousands of light years to one or two specific stars in the galaxy just by chance.

I think the OP's idea that it is an intentional process to create more element zero (which is pretty rare, according to Tali) is an interesting one. Then again, somehow the Alpha Relay was able to draw in dark energy from supposedly nothing, so I'm really kind of lost with all this dark energy business. If the Relays can do that, they wouldn't need to replenish element zero.

[Candidate 88766]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
-

Cool post. Thanks.

I'm with 111othernumbers when it comes to the second theory, so I guess it's the first, assuming you're right about the reapers being the only ones that could do that to the star. I doubt the Geth could do it, but then, this is BW. They had Cerberus bring a decaying corpse back to life FFS, so really anything is possible... even including an outside force/species that we've not seen yet. But the reaper theory seems sound to me.

Cheers. I'm guessing its the first one too - if its true then it really does make the Reapers a threat to the whole galaxy, and it also brings home the idea that to them the galaxy is only here to be harvested.

I think its unlikely the Geth could do it, but then again it is a star in Geth space...

[Sgt Stryker]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about that. The whole "advanced technology is polluting the galaxy, so we have to abandon our way of life" trope is a little over-used by now.

And blue-skined alien sex-babes, energy swords, and space-fantasy psychics aren't?

All of these are still better than ecomentalist rubbish.

[Candidate 88766]

111987 wrote...

I think the OP's idea that it is an intentional process to create more element zero (which is pretty rare, according to Tali) is an interesting one. Then again, somehow the Alpha Relay was able to draw in dark energy from supposedly nothing, so I'm really kind of lost with all this dark energy business. If the Relays can do that, they wouldn't need to replenish element zero.

I imagine it was drawing the dark energy from its own reserves of element zero. Thats why I think its more likely the process is intentional - the Relays need a massive supply of element zero to keep running, and the Reapers aren't around often to 'top them up' so have to make eezo in vast quantities each time they return.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Eh, I'm not sure how I feel about that. The whole "advanced technology is polluting the galaxy, so we have to abandon our way of life" trope is a little over-used by now.

And blue-skined alien sex-babes, energy swords, and space-fantasy psychics aren't?

All of these are still better than ecomentalist rubbish.

They're also a lot more common and blatant.

'Our salvation is going to be the end of us' is a bit less over-done than 'let's slap on skin paint and a wig and call it a alien.'

[RyuujinZERO]

Honestly - I've LONG suspected that infact Cerberus is doing this; whenever we see TIM we see a strange darkening star on the view-screen, and cerberus appears to have far more resources than anyone'd think possible.

[GMagnum]

e=mc2

[Candidate 88766]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Honestly - I've LONG suspected that infact Cerberus is doing this; whenever we see TIM we see a strange darkening star on the view-screen, and cerberus appears to have far more resources than anyone'd think possible.

Cerberus? I hadn't thought of that. But then again, how would they have managed to enter Geth space to affect Dholen?

[didymos1120]

111987 wrote...

Travie wrote...

I like the theory that its the use of Mass Effect technology itself that is leading to the buildup of dark energy, would make it interesting if in the end they all had to give up the ability to reach other solar systems.

Never understood that theory, to be honest.

Why would using mass effect technology cause a build-up of dark energy anywhere?

Because the implication is that when you run current through eezo, you're converting that electrical energy into dark energy (the codex says doing so causes it "to emit a dark energy field").  So, unless that dark energy then gets converted back into some other form of energy via some other process, you get a net gain (inevitably, some of the energy will be lost as waste heat). 

The question is, is the increase really enough to make any appreciable difference, even added up over a thousands of years? And the answer is "We don't know."  There aren't any numbers given at all, nor many details in general, so it's just a blind guess.

This has nothing to do with the "premature star aging" thing, BTW, because (I agree) there's no evidence to suggest that (nor any plausible mechanism to explain why) all these highly localized increases in dark energy somehow end up concentrated within specific stars.

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:44 .

[didymos1120]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I imagine it was drawing the dark energy from its own reserves of element zero. Thats why I think its more likely the process is intentional - the Relays need a massive supply of element zero to keep running, and the Reapers aren't around often to 'top them up' so have to make eezo in vast quantities each time they return.

Eezo is not a fuel.  It doesn't get "used up".  I don't know why so many people think it does.

[Someone With Mass]

If Heastrom's sun enters a red giant phase, it won't be a supernova at the end of its lifetime. My guess is that someone just wanted to see the effects eezo has on a star.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:53 .